Will there be a 2022 season?

[Old Red]

So what about prospects on the Sea Dogs?

 

I saw Ellsbury play his first Sea Dogs game years ago, and he went from prospect to a pretty good ball player, but not all Sea Dogs make it. The Sea Dog Biscuit is the big attraction to me.

[mvp 78]

@JeffPassan

MLB's best-and-final offer:

 

- No changes to CBT thresholds (220/220/220/224/230)

- A $5M increase on pre-arb bonus pool from $25M to $30M

- An increase of minimums from $675K to $700K, moving up $10K/year

 

If it's their "best and final" then we won't have baseball for a while. This may go to the NLRB.

[mvp 78]

If ownership is choosing to no longer bargain, it's hard to continue to complain about the players.

[moonslav59]

MLBTR reports:

 

MLB’s offer to the union, per Chelsea Janes of the Washington Post (Twitter link), includes a $30MM pre-arbitration bonus pool with no yearly increases, a $700K minimum salary with $10K annual increases, and no changes to prior luxury-tax thresholds ($220MM from 2022-24, $224MM in 2025, $230MM in 2026). That leaves a $55MM gap between the league’s proposed bonus pool (which also includes yearly $5MM increases) and a $25K gap in minimum salary. As for the luxury-tax thresholds, the two sides still face an $18MM gap in 2022 proposals, which grows to a $33MM gap by their proposed 2026 terms.

[moonslav59]

MLBTR reports:

 

MLB’s offer to the union, per Chelsea Janes of the Washington Post (Twitter link), includes a $30MM pre-arbitration bonus pool with no yearly increases, a $700K minimum salary with $10K annual increases, and no changes to prior luxury-tax thresholds ($220MM from 2022-24, $224MM in 2025, $230MM in 2026). That leaves a $55MM gap between the league’s proposed bonus pool (which also includes yearly $5MM increases) and a $25K gap in minimum salary. As for the luxury-tax thresholds, the two sides still face an $18MM gap in 2022 proposals, which grows to a $33MM gap by their proposed 2026 terms.

 

Even an agreement to split the differences in half would be a bad deal for the players.

 

The owners are forcing missed games. It's 100% on them.

[moonslav59]

I hope the players dig in.

 

I'd hate to miss watching the game I love, but these owners irk the crap out of me!

[Old Red]

If ownership is choosing to no longer bargain, it's hard to continue to complain about the players.

 

I’ll even agree with that, and like Tony Mass just said the fans should be pissed if no agreement is reached today, and not just pissed, but really pissed, and should ask what’s in it for them? Remember for the most part it’s Millionaires, and Billionaires in it for themselves, and NEITHER side cares about the fans, and when it’s over both sides will open their arms, and the fans will jump back in like nothing has happened.

[Old Red]

Even an agreement to split the differences in half would be a bad deal for the players.

 

The owners are forcing missed games. It's 100% on them.

 

Unfortunately they have that right.

[mvp 78]

Even an agreement to split the differences in half would be a bad deal for the players.

 

The owners are forcing missed games. It's 100% on them.

 

If they have to go outside to settle this, it will take a few weeks. This means Opening Day would most likely not be until 4/15.

[Old Red]

I hope the players dig in.

 

I'd hate to miss watching the game I love, but these owners irk the crap out of me!

 

They can dig in all they want, but they need the money more than the owners. Blame the owners all you want, but I don’t think it fazes them one bit.

[moonslav59]

Unfortunately they have that right.

 

Yup, but let's not let them off the hook by siding with them.

[moonslav59]

They can dig in all they want, but they need the money more than the owners. Blame the owners all you want, but I don’t think it fazes them one bit.

 

Money fazes even multi-billionaires.

 

Yes, the players may "need it more," but they will stick together and have been planning for this for years.

[moonslav59]

They can dig in all they want, but they need the money more than the owners. Blame the owners all you want, but I don’t think it fazes them one bit.

 

I do blame the owners 100% and am not surprised everyone doesn't.

 

The players will not even keep up with inflation under this "best offer" put forward by the owners.

[Old Red]

Yup, but let's not let them off the hook by siding with them.

 

I have said repeatedly that I blame BOTH sides, and have no sympathy for either one, and I hope both sides lose money, and fan support in all of this.

[Old Red]

I do blame the owners 100% and am not surprised everyone doesn't.

 

The players will not even keep up with inflation under this "best offer" put forward by the owners.

 

And like I keep saying the players are not poor poor players. Even the lowest salary ones.

[jad]

I do blame the owners 100% and am not surprised everyone doesn't.

 

The players will not even keep up with inflation under this "best offer" put forward by the owners.

 

Agreed. The players in fact have shown a willingness to lose salary. So maybe it's time for them to call the owners' bluff, who might be more moved when they see the value of their franchises suddenly plummet. As for us, we've done without baseball before and didn't die. And by the time basketball and hockey are over, it will be almost football season.

[Old Red]

I do blame the owners 100% and am not surprised everyone doesn't.

 

The players will not even keep up with inflation under this "best offer" put forward by the owners.

 

Man Fred said the fans were at the top of the consideration list, and that is as BS as you can get.

[TylerD]

I have said repeatedly that I blame BOTH sides, and have no sympathy for either one, and I hope both sides lose money, and fan support in all of this.

 

100 percent agreed on all accounts on this. I haven’t felt like this every step of the way

[notin]

Money fazes even multi-billionaires.

 

Yes, the players may "need it more," but they will stick together and have been planning for this for years.

 

I think we’re starting to throw around the word “need” a bit liberally here…

[notin]

Man Fred said the fans were at the top of the consideration list, and that is as BS as you can get.

 

No, he’s right. But they’re working the list from the bottom up…

[moonslav59]

I have said repeatedly that I blame BOTH sides, and have no sympathy for either one, and I hope both sides lose money, and fan support in all of this.

 

I understand your opinion, but disagree.

 

Players should not make less and less money as owners make more and more.

 

The owners called their offer their "best." That is basically calling an end to negotiations, unless the players agree in full.

 

Not even a token raise of $1M to the luxury tax limt.

 

A token raise to their last min salary offer and peanuts in other areas.

 

It's your right to blame whomever you want, but to me, this is 100% on the owners.

 

The locked the doors and took over 40 days to give their first offer. They've moved very little from a position where they had screwed the players over on the last deal, and I'm not even talking about player service time manipulations.

 

We'll just have to agree to disagree... again, but in all honesty, do you think the players should except this final and "best offer?".

[moonslav59]

And like I keep saying the players are not poor poor players. Even the lowest salary ones.

 

So?

 

Even the poorest owners are filthy rich. That, also, means nothing.

[notin]

I have a plan.

 

If we offered the players and owners 50% each, both sides would reject it. So clearly we need an arbitrator to step and each side 60% …

[moonslav59]

Agreed. The players in fact have shown a willingness to lose salary. So maybe it's time for them to call the owners' bluff, who might be more moved when they see the value of their franchises suddenly plummet. As for us, we've done without baseball before and didn't die. And by the time basketball and hockey are over, it will be almost football season.

 

The players made some pretty high demands, no doubt, but they've seen their pay go down for years- not even counting inflation adjustments.

 

They've backed off many of their demands by quite a bit.

 

The owners' idea of making a counter offer is to raise the lux tax by $1M for one year.

 

They have tried to say the players have been antagonistic and are the reason for this standoff. It's typical management negotiation ploys, but it seems like the propaganda is working on some fans.

[moonslav59]

I think we’re starting to throw around the word “need” a bit liberally here…

 

Need/Deserve... six of one-half dozen...

 

If you look at the entertainment industry, and this is what baseball is, people pay big money to watch top talent.

 

The middle men have always tried to gouge out as big of a chunk as possible, and many an entertainer has been left broke by cheating agents and "handlers." Many have gone broke by their own undoings- drugs, women, cars, rampant unchecked spending, and many managers, venue owners and business owners have made big money off the best talent around.

 

Baseball should not be viewed in much of a different view, even though it is different in many ways. I get the "risk" owners take, but when's the last time even a half-witted owner lost money in baseball? It's hard to track all the money they make, because much is secret, but we do see what the pay for the team and what they get when they sell it, and nobody can convince me these guys aren't making way more than the players are making, and people come to see the players not the owners.

 

I pay to see the Rolling Stones in concert. I know the middle men gobble up much of the ticket costs. Hell, the damn "service fees," alone are a joke, but the Stones make a ton of money, and they DESERVE it!

 

So do MLB baseball players. Nobody will pay big money and cable bills to watch Paw Sox level talent... at least not at the level we see in the bigs.

 

[moonslav59]

I have a plan.

 

If we offered the players and owners 50% each, both sides would reject it. So clearly we need an arbitrator to step and each side 60% …

 

The players would jump at making 45%. 50% would be heaven.

 

The problem is the hidden nature of baseball profits.

 

[Bellhorn04]

The first 2 series of the season are officially cancelled, for starters.

 

A full 2022 season is dead.

[moonslav59]

The union’s player leaders voted unanimously to decline the league’s offer, reports Jeff Passan of ESPN (Twitter link). A person associated with the MLBPA told Evan Petzold of the Detroit Free Press, “We are done. This was always (the league’s) plan.” That’s in line with other allegations by those on the players’ side who believe the league exaggerated the extent of the progress made last night in order to frame today’s lack of agreement as the fault of the union.

 

-MLBTR

[moonslav59]

The first 2 series of the season are officially cancelled, for starters.

 

The full season is dead.

 

Yup. There is absolutely no way the owners make significant concessions, like the players already have, in the next few hours or days.

 

It's going to be at least 2 series lost- maybe 2 months or more.

 

Sad, but I hope the players stand strong.

[dgalehouse]

I think it is fitting , right and understandable that folks are siding with the players on this lockout. The players are mostly good guys. The owners are a greedy and unlikable bunch. And that includes John Henry. Unfortunately , when this is over , many of these same fans will be urging the owners to save on salaries. " Don't exceed the luxury tax , get somebody cheaper , this guy is overpaid , that guy is not worth it , be like the Rays , save money , keep the budget down , we can't afford this guy or that guy , and certainly not both of them, try to win with a low payroll ," and so forth and so on.