Will there be a 2022 season?

[notin]

The AFL did pretty well, no?

 

Is it still around as a stand-alone entity? How does its success compare to the NFL?

[Bellhorn04]

Is it still around as a stand-alone entity? How does its success compare to the NFL?

 

The AFL merged with the NFL.

[vegasbob]

Just for fun, I'm starting a 60 day countdown to the 3 hours that will get a deal done . March 18 will be the day all owners and players will kiss and make up. Actual games that count will begin April 15 , just in time for everyone to get their taxes done first. and hide their Easter eggs around the outfield for the 16th. There is no incentive for either side to get in gear before then.

So it is 60 and counting.

[S5Dewey]

Ok I’m still lost.

 

Can you briefly explain how anti-trust exemption complicates moving teams to more lucrative markets? And explain it like you were talking to a 4 year old…

 

To answer your question like I were talking to a 4 year old, no, I can't do that. The whole thing is far too complicated. Here's a link to an explanation that I can pretty much understand (although my ADHD kicked in about half way through it and I lost focus).

 

https://digitalcommons.liberty.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=&httpsredir=1&article=1473&context=honors

 

From what I gathered one of the biggest things the exemption from the anti-trust law does is that it allows the owners as a group to act like a monopoly and decide if/where teams can move to, or even whether to allow a new team to enter the league. Obviously allowing the owners to collude and act like a monopoly would take an exemption from the anti-trust act - which they have!

 

I found it to be a pretty good read and I'll probably go back and finish it tomorrow, after I've given my head a good hard shake.

[S5Dewey]

It's also worth mentioning that the whole thing has been chipped away at over the years until it's not nearly as onerous to the players as it once was.

[Bellhorn04]

It's funny, I'm an accountant and I've read the term "anti-trust" many times, but I have very little idea what it actually means.

[Elktonnick]

It's funny, I'm an accountant and I've read the term "anti-trust" many times, but I have very little idea what it actually means.

Google Sherman Anti Trust Act of 1890 to begin your education of the history of Anti Trust legislation in the United States.

[notin]

The AFL merged with the NFL.

 

Yes. Hence the “stand alone” question…

[Bellhorn04]

Yes. Hence the “stand alone” question…

 

Oh, it was one of "those" questions.

 

A lot of the original AFL franchises are still alive and well, isn't that the main thing?

[mvp 78]

Ok I’m still lost.

 

Can you briefly explain how anti-trust exemption complicates moving teams to more lucrative markets? And explain it like you were talking to a 4 year old…

 

The Oakland A's aren't allowed to move to San Jose because the Giants have a poop in their diaper and are cranky (aka antitrust exemption). If you take the poop out of the diaper, the Oakland A's could move to San Jose if they wanted to.

[mvp 78]

Just for fun, I'm starting a 60 day countdown to the 3 hours that will get a deal done . March 18 will be the day all owners and players will kiss and make up. Actual games that count will begin April 15 , just in time for everyone to get their taxes done first. and hide their Easter eggs around the outfield for the 16th. There is no incentive for either side to get in gear before then.

So it is 60 and counting.

 

So no games until 4/16 at 12 AM?

[mvp 78]

To answer your question like I were talking to a 4 year old, no, I can't do that. The whole thing is far too complicated. Here's a link to an explanation that I can pretty much understand (although my ADHD kicked in about half way through it and I lost focus).

 

https://digitalcommons.liberty.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=&httpsredir=1&article=1473&context=honors

 

From what I gathered one of the biggest things the exemption from the anti-trust law does is that it allows the owners as a group to act like a monopoly and decide if/where teams can move to, or even whether to allow a new team to enter the league. Obviously allowing the owners to collude and act like a monopoly would take an exemption from the anti-trust act - which they have!

 

I found it to be a pretty good read and I'll probably go back and finish it tomorrow, after I've given my head a good hard shake.

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-court-baseball/supreme-court-wont-hear-challenge-to-baseball-antitrust-immunity-idUSKCN0RZ1JV20151005

 

The Supreme Court stated as much with the A's/San Jose situation.

[moonslav59]

Oh, it was one of "those" questions.

 

A lot of the original AFL franchises are still alive and well, isn't that the main thing?

 

ABA teams, too.

 

Just because the AFL and ABA no longer "stand alone" does not mean they weren't a success or did not create a popular alternative to the NFL and NBA for a long stretch.

 

[moonslav59]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-court-baseball/supreme-court-wont-hear-challenge-to-baseball-antitrust-immunity-idUSKCN0RZ1JV20151005

 

The Supreme Court stated as much with the A's/San Jose situation.

 

I remember thinking, at the time, why not just give SF the "rights" to Oakland in exchange for giving up the San Jose market?

[mvp 78]

I remember thinking, at the time, why not just give SF the "rights" to Oakland in exchange for giving up the San Jose market?

 

Giants wouldn't make that trade.

[moonslav59]

Giants wouldn't make that trade.

 

While more people live in San Jose than either SF or Oakland, the SF-Oak metro area is almost twice the size of San Jose's, but yes, SF would say no.

[mvp 78]

In regards to the Rays Montreal/Tampa timeshare falling through:

 

@BillShaikin

Sternberg: "Partial seasons are going to be the wave of the future in professional sports."

[moonslav59]

In regards to the Rays Montreal/Tampa timeshare falling through:

 

@BillShaikin

Sternberg: "Partial seasons are going to be the wave of the future in professional sports."

 

Many years ago, I proposed the Florida team play half its games in Tampa and half in Miami. The other one could move to NC or elsewhere.

[mvp 78]

Many years ago, I proposed the Florida team play half its games in Tampa and half in Miami. The other one could move to NC or elsewhere.

 

I think the Tampa fans deserve a shot at a good MLB stadium first. The owners just don't want to fork over the money to do it.

 

I'm not sure Miami would be happy with splitting their home games since they have a very new and expensive ballpark that they need to derive revenue off of.

[moonslav59]

I think the Tampa fans deserve a shot at a good MLB stadium first. The owners just don't want to fork over the money to do it.

 

I'm not sure Miami would be happy with splitting their home games since they have a very new and expensive ballpark that they need to derive revenue off of.

 

I've been to their stadium. It's not nearly as bad as many think it is, IMO.

 

Their fanbase problem is not about the stadium: it's about having a nearby population of transplants who are already fans of other teams. Just the Yankee and Sox fans in the area are enough to significantly affect how many people are left that can or might become Rays fans.

 

Just my opinion.

[Bellhorn04]

I've been to their stadium. It's not nearly as bad as many think it is, IMO.

 

Probably looks worse on TV than it does when you're inside it.

[moonslav59]

Probably looks worse on TV than it does when you're inside it.

 

There is nothing special about it, but I didn't think it was ugly or uncomfortable.

 

I'm just not sure that even the best stadium in the best location would create a big enough fan base to sustain a healthy budget.

 

Even here in Houston, there is not as big of a fan market ass the population suggests it might- due to Sox fan like myself moving here.

[S5Dewey]

Probably looks worse on TV than it does when you're inside it.

 

I does look worse on TV than in real life. I was there several years ago and I found most of the stadium to be quite inviting. I say "most" because it was when the turf there was blue. UGHH

 

My issue with the stadium is with the different catwalks, the different rules for each catwalk, and how they affect play. I find that whole issue to be unacceptable for a ML ballpark (which is a nice way of saying 'stupid').

[mvp 78]

I've been to their stadium. It's not nearly as bad as many think it is, IMO.

 

Their fanbase problem is not about the stadium: it's about having a nearby population of transplants who are already fans of other teams. Just the Yankee and Sox fans in the area are enough to significantly affect how many people are left that can or might become Rays fans.

 

Just my opinion.

 

It's a bad opinion. They have good tv ratings. The stadium is a pain in the ass to get to with the bridge traffic.

 

The Lightning lead the NHL in attendance. Their stadium is in Tampa where all the Rays fans want a new Rays stadium. If a lack of attendance was solely due to "transplants" then why do the Lightning pull so well?

 

The Panthers have horrible attendance because the other side of the road is the Everglades. The location sucks.

 

If the location was better for the Rays, they'd have better attendance.

[moonslav59]

It's a bad opinion. They have good tv ratings. The stadium is a pain in the ass to get to with the bridge traffic.

 

The Lightning lead the NHL in attendance. Their stadium is in Tampa where all the Rays fans want a new Rays stadium. If a lack of attendance was solely due to "transplants" then why do the Lightning pull so well?

 

The Panthers have horrible attendance because the other side of the road is the Everglades. The location sucks.

 

If the location was better for the Rays, they'd have better attendance.

 

I was talking about baseball not hockey.

 

I was talking about the stadium not being as ugly as people might think.

 

I do think they'd draw better in a better location, but I doubt they ever reach the top third of teams.

 

I don't know about TV viewership, but maybe it's higher than expected because they don't go to the games.

[jad]

For me, it's all about convenience. Fenway (as I recall! from years ago) is never any fun to get to unless you happen to be living near there. As for many NewEnglanders who live in the sticks, deciding to go will result in a day-long or two-day operation. And Dodger Stadium? There is no way I want to invest in four hours of tedious commuting in order to watch a game where half the crowd only stays 5 innings (not the same 5!). THAT SAID: it appears that 30-50K fans feel differently on game day at both places!

 

Just curious on Florida stadiums: how long does it take to get to the game if you live in the area? And is convenience really a factor? (It doesn't seem to be in the stadiums I know--it's as if the time invested to go and the hideous traffic leaving were part of the experience!)

[mvp 78]

For me, it's all about convenience. Fenway (as I recall! from years ago) is never any fun to get to unless you happen to be living near there. As for many NewEnglanders who live in the sticks, deciding to go will result in a day-long or two-day operation. And Dodger Stadium? There is no way I want to invest in four hours of tedious commuting in order to watch a game where half the crowd only stays 5 innings (not the same 5!). THAT SAID: it appears that 30-50K fans feel differently on game day at both places!

 

Just curious on Florida stadiums: how long does it take to get to the game if you live in the area? And is convenience really a factor? (It doesn't seem to be in the stadiums I know--it's as if the time invested to go and the hideous traffic leaving were part of the experience!)

 

Los Angeles metro population: 18.8M (park sucks to get to, but is only 3 miles from downtown)

Boston metro population: 4.9M (park sucks to get to, but is only 3 miles from downtown)

Tampa metro population: 2.9M (park sucks to get to and is 20 miles away from downtown and across the bay)

 

I think convenience is a very big factor with the Rays attendance. However, unless it's tried out elsewhere in the Tampa area, we won't really know. I just feel like the overwhelming Lightning attendance number shows that there is a desire for local sports in the area. Factoring in the good tv and radio ratings for the Rays, it shouldn't be a big wonder as to why it isn't working out for them right now. They have a young, successful and exciting team. They just can't fill that stadium in St Pete.

[mvp 78]

I was talking about baseball not hockey.

 

Why does the difference in sport matter? It doesn't.

[vegasbob]

57 days to go until settlement of the "issues". MLBPA to present their offers . That will at least define the gap between owners and players union. Then they can begin negotiating.

 

Having been to Fenway, Tropicana and Marlins stadium, I can say that one's historical, one's hysterical and one is across the freeway from an airport. Actually Tropicana does have good sight lines, and some interesting baseball museum type displays . Plus you can spread out, change seats etc since there are not a lot of folks around you.

[moonslav59]

Why does the difference in sport matter? It doesn't.

 

Around Tampa, there are a lot of "transplants-" people who recently moved there from places like NY and Boston. Many are die-hard Yankee, Sox and other teams' fans, already. They will never convert to Rays fans. They may only watch or go to Rays games, when the Rays play their team. I suppose one could say the same about Bruin and Rangers fans re-locating to Tampa, but I'm not sure the numbers are quite the same- not the fan loyalty.

 

I might be wrong about the baseball-hockey comp and loyalty status, but it's what I think.

 

Of course, nearly everything I think and write is wrong, in your opinion. You seem to be an even bigger contrarian than I am- and I thought I was a bit extreme.