Red Sox trade Hunter Renfroe in trade involving Jackie Bradley Jr

[Bellhorn04]

We apparently made a shorter term offer. The $24M paid to JBJ added to our initial offer makes it a bit closer but maybe not quite equal.

 

It’s not $77M vs $24M.

 

But it's also JBJ's 24 mill vs. Renfroe's 18-19 mill for 2 years. The total net difference, assuming both of them play well enough to stick around for the 2 years, is 5-6 mill.

[moonslav59]

I think your repeated use of the phrase "head-scratcher" might be the whole problem here LOL

 

If I don’t like a trade, I say it’s a head-scratcher.

 

Is that the issue, here? If I start saying I dislike the trade, that changes everything for you?

[Bellhorn04]

If I don’t like a trade, I say it’s a head-scratcher.

 

Is that the issue, here? If I start saying I dislike the trade, that changes everything for you?

 

Well, sort of. "Head-scratcher" implies you don't understand it, no?

[moonslav59]

But it's also JBJ's 24 mill vs. Renfroe's 18-19 mill for 2 years. The total net difference, assuming both of them play well enough to stick around for the 2 years, is 5-6 mill.

 

I can see that position, but I think we could have traded Renfroe for a cheap RPer or OFer and not paid either of these two. It would make signing Suzuki or Story easier, financially.

 

Even if you just count the $5M more for JBJ x 2 years, that’s $10M, then add the cost of Paxton to our initial offer to ERod and it’s gets much closer.

 

I know it’s more complicated than just looking at 2022 and 2023 AAV comps, but certainly some sort of upgrade could have been possible.

 

We did not have to pay Renfroe. We could have easily traded him for a prospect or not offered him the web, if we thought he’d be a zero WAR player in ‘22.

[moonslav59]

Well, sort of. "Head-scratcher" implies you don't understand it, no?

 

It implies I added up the projected pluses and minuses and think it’s a net negative, so I scratch my head wondering why we make a net negative trade, in my opinion.

 

Yes, there are connotations of not understanding, so that term might not have been the best choice.

 

I will refrain from using that term for this trade going forward, in hopes you can now sleep at night. Hello

[mvp 78]

No.

 

I know yours and others positions and respect them.

 

You can’t handle me disagreeing.

 

You equate understanding with agreeing.

 

I don’t like the trade. I can see how it might work out, if JBJ hits over .680 or so and or a prospect dies well, but I think the trade will be a bad one, despite hearing and understanding the opposing views.

 

Why is that so hard for you to grasp?

 

FYI, I liked several moves Bloom made last year that flopped. I know I can be wrong on this one, too, but I also know maybe you will be instead of me.

 

I'm fine with you agreeing. I just don't understand your head scratching. You can disagree with the reasoning behind the trade and state that it's wrong. That's a fair assessment. You continuing to say it's a head scratcher just makes YOU look bad.

[mvp 78]

But of course you have to look long term. ERod is a 77 mill investment. This trade has no impact on that kind of investment.

 

Especially since that investment was out the door before the trade was even a twinkle in his eye.

[mvp 78]

I think your repeated use of the phrase "head-scratcher" might be the whole problem here LOL

 

Bingo bango bongo.

[mvp 78]

If I don’t like a trade, I say it’s a head-scratcher.

 

Is that the issue, here? If I start saying I dislike the trade, that changes everything for you?

 

Yes!

[mvp 78]

Well, sort of. "Head-scratcher" implies you don't understand it, no?

Definition of head-scratcher

informal. : something that is confusing, mysterious, or hard to understand

 

We understand the trade. We know why he did it. It's not mysterious or unknowable.

 

If you disagree with something, it doesn't make it a head scratcher.

[Old Red]

Bloom does not have to like prospects. He has the payroll to spend. He likes prospects because it's the smart way to build long term sustainability.

 

Why do you think Bloom has the payroll to spend, and if he does why is he filling up the rotation with the likes of Whacka? I don’t think he has the payroll to spend, and that is why he’s making these kind of moves, and also adding prospects.

[mvp 78]

It implies I added up the projected pluses and minuses and think it’s a net negative, so I scratch my head wondering why we make a net negative trade, in my opinion.

 

Yes, there are connotations of not understanding, so that term might not have been the best choice.

 

I will refrain from using that term for this trade going forward, in hopes you can now sleep at night. Hello

 

I sleep very soundly at night because I put TalkSox head scratching posts behind me and move on with my life.

[Old Red]

Definition of head-scratcher

informal. : something that is confusing, mysterious, or hard to understand

 

We understand the trade. We know why he did it. It's not mysterious or unknowable.

 

If you disagree with something, it doesn't make it a head scratcher.

 

No matter what you call it I think it is a bad trade. Bloom does not always get everything right.

[moonslav59]

I sleep very soundly at night because I put TalkSox head scratching posts behind me and move on with my life.

 

Lmao.

[mvp 78]

No matter what you call it I think it is a bad trade. Bloom does not always get everything right.

 

I don't think he's batting 1.000, that's for sure.

[moonslav59]

No matter what you call it I think it is a bad trade. Bloom does not always get everything right.

 

Exactly, and neither do we.

 

We could both be wrong on this one.

 

JBJ could outplay Renfroe in’22, or one or both prospects could end up outplaying Renfroe’s 2 remaining years by themselves.

[Bellhorn04]

I can see that position, but I think we could have traded Renfroe for a cheap RPer or OFer and not paid either of these two. It would make signing Suzuki or Story easier, financially.

 

Even if you just count the $5M more for JBJ x 2 years, that’s $10M, then add the cost of Paxton to our initial offer to ERod and it’s gets much closer.

 

No, the total difference is $5 mill over 2 years. $24 -19 = $5.

[Old Red]

Exactly, and neither do we.

 

We could both be wrong on this one.

 

JBJ could outplay Renfroe in’22, or one or both prospects could end up outplaying Renfroe’s 2 remaining years by themselves.

 

I hope we are wrong on this one, but until we are I don’t like it.

[Old Red]

Well, sort of. "Head-scratcher" implies you don't understand it, no?

 

Moon understood it, and I understood it, but we just didn’t like the trade. The head scratching part is how some were so hung up on that phrase.

[Bellhorn04]

Moon understood it, and I understood it, but we just didn’t like the trade. The head scratching part is how some were so hung up on that phrase.

 

Yeah, yeah, you're just sticking up for your old buddy moon.

[Old Red]

Yeah, yeah, you're just sticking up for your old buddy moon.

 

It’s not like Moon, and I haven’t agreed on things before.

[moonslav59]

No, the total difference is $5 mill over 2 years. $24 -19 = $5.

 

$5M AAV assuming we pay the $8M buyout that does not count on the tax line.

 

It’s $12M x 2 on the AAV if we take the option minus whatever Renfroe gets in2 Arbs. That might be $24M - $14M or more or less likely less.

 

Then add what we pay fro a RHd bat to platoon with JBJ or suffer his poor splits.

[moonslav59]

Yeah, yeah, you're just sticking up for your old buddy moon.

 

Sarcasm is lost on this site.

[Bellhorn04]

$5M AAV assuming we pay the $8M buyout that does not count on the tax line.

 

It’s $12M x 2 on the AAV if we take the option minus whatever Renfroe gets in2 Arbs. That might be $24M - $14M or more or less likely less.

 

Renfroe is projected to get a raise from 3.1 to 7.6 this year. If he gets a similar bump in year 3 that's about 12 mill.

 

That's where I'm getting the 19 mill estimate for 2 years for Renfroe.

[Kimmi]

What if... Bloom likes the prospects in the JBJ trade so much that he made the deal so he can make another one soon? For example, say he was on the verge of acquiring a young MLB pitcher from Miami, but the Marlins insist on Casas in return? What if Bloom added Binelas as the future lefty bat first baseman to platoon with Dalbec... for the sole purpose of landing a top of the rotation starter?

 

Exactly. We don't know what Bloom is planning to do once the lockout ends. The prospects were the key. He has already improved our farm system significantly in the short time that he's been with the team.

[Kimmi]

Why do you think Bloom has the payroll to spend, and if he does why is he filling up the rotation with the likes of Whacka? I don’t think he has the payroll to spend, and that is why he’s making these kind of moves, and also adding prospects.

 

I think he has the money to spend because Henry has always been willing to spend. Even in the years when the Sox were 'pinching pennies' to stay under the cap, they had one of the highest payrolls. I don't think that the lack of spending in the last two years is any indication of a new trend for the Red Sox. It was more about getting the Sox back on track for the long term. They needed to reset.

 

The Sox may or may not exceed the luxury tax limit this year. We currently don't even know what that's going to be. But I am confident that Bloom will have the okay to go over the limit if he sees fit. Pitchers like Wacha are good value signings or good gambles to take. Their signings do not preclude the signing of other players.

[mvp 78]

@alexspeier

Jackie Bradley Jr. hit a ball to left-center for a double. He's consistently hit the ball opposite field this spring - noteworthy after he went from career-high opposite-field usage (27.8%) in 2020 to a career-low 19.8% in 2021.

[Bellhorn04]

@alexspeier

Jackie Bradley Jr. hit a ball to left-center for a double. He's consistently hit the ball opposite field this spring - noteworthy after he went from career-high opposite-field usage (27.8%) in 2020 to a career-low 19.8% in 2021.

 

Nifty dig there, Alex.

[mvp 78]

Nifty dig there, Alex.

 

Another win for the good guy: Stat Masterson. Still undefeated.

[SCM33]

This place is dead. Bumping this thread.

 

I cant stand JBJ, never could, never understood the hype.

 

Recently Felger and Mazz revealed numbers that suggested that JBJ was on of the worst offensive players of all time to have a certain number of at bats.

 

I argued with people here about him forever his first time around.

 

If he is getting a significant number of at bats, then your OF blows.