The 2021-2022 Offseason Thread

[notin]

@nypost

 

Ken Rosenthal out at MLB Network due to previous criticism of Rob Manfred

 

So Manfred lacks humility? Who’d have guessed?

[Bellhorn04]

So Manfred lacks humility? Who’d have guessed?

 

There's a pretty big difference between lacking humility and taking action to stifle criticism, though.

[notin]

There's a pretty big difference between lacking humility and taking action to stifle criticism, though.

 

But when you’re the Commissioner of Major League Baseball, receiving criticism is part of the job…

[mvp 78]

So Manfred lacks humility? Who’d have guessed?

 

I originally read this as "So Manfred lacks humanity?" and agreed 100%.

[mvp 78]

I wonder if the Sox internal defensive evaluations had Renfroe as significantly worse than the ones we know or our own opinions of his defense. We might tend to be wow’s by all the OF assists, but Fenways’s RF is do large, maybe his short range really convinced them he had to go.

 

Per most advanced defensive stats, he was the worst RFer for the Sox since Wily Mo. His arm was lipstick on a pig.

[oldtimer]

I wonder if the Sox internal defensive evaluations had Renfroe as significantly worse than the ones we know or our own opinions of his defense. We might tend to be wow’s by all the OF assists, but Fenways’s RF is do large, maybe his short range really convinced them he had to go.

 

Maybe the thought of how important OF defense improvement also led them to view JBJ in a more positive light than most of us view him.

 

If Renfroe ends up with a plus 2-3 WAR, the Sox might still think his value is less than that even going forward, too, so what we might view as a good season by Renfroe, they might see as much worse.

 

I’m just saying this could be a view they have taken. It’s pure speculation on my part.

 

Personally, I thought Renfroe’s arm cancelled out a sizeable chunk of his poor D, and his offense more than made him a good plus player. Maybe they don’t see it that way or the expect Renfroe and JBJ to regress towards their norms in 2922.

 

Clearly they wanted to sell high on Renfroe. I didn't like the return with JBJ and two so so prospects. Why not include him in trade talks for someone who could help us in 2022?

 

I expect the Sox to go out and acquire a good right field replacement who fits the long term plans Bloom often speaks about. Anyone available will also be sought after by other clubs so it might be just money or money plus prospects. Who would we give up for a high quality right fielder? Speculation may run rampant but nothing can happen until the two sides really agree to negotiate in good faith.

[mvp 78]

Clearly they wanted to sell high on Renfroe. I didn't like the return with JBJ and two so so prospects. Why not include him in trade talks for someone who could help us in 2022?

 

I expect the Sox to go out and acquire a good right field replacement who fits the long term plans Bloom often speaks about. Anyone available will also be sought after by other clubs so it might be just money or money plus prospects. Who would we give up for a high quality right fielder? Speculation may run rampant but nothing can happen until the two sides really agree to negotiate in good faith.

 

We are told that they are in on Seiya Suzuki for RF. We'll see if it happens.

[moonslav59]

Your post reminds of the old assessment He drives in more runs than he lets in...

 

... Renfroe's assists helped negate his bad jumps or lack of range, but does WAR account for the subsequent increased pitch counts from non-catches that can wear down a staff? I always thought such "arm-saving" was an underrated aspect of the consistent D of Betts and Bradley.

 

I'd reword this to... "Helped partially negate his bad jumps or lack of range..."

[mvp 78]

I'd reword this to... "Helped partially negate his bad jumps or lack of range..."

 

Nope. -0.5 dWAR. -8 runs above average.

[mvp 78]

In June 2020, Rosenthal’s analysis of Manfred for The Athletic featured some light criticism, but it didn’t appear to delve into anything personal.

 

In one piece, Rosenthal wrote, “As if the perception that Manfred is beholden to owners and out of touch with players was not bad enough, he was trending on Twitter on Monday after performing a massive flip-flop.”

 

Since then, Rosenthal’s role was slightly diminished at the network. Now, he’s out entirely.

[moonslav59]

Nope. -0.5 dWAR. -8 runs above average.

 

Nope what? A said his arm did not fully negate the other aspects of his poor defense fully, meaning it was still an overall negative.

[dgalehouse]

What a f***ing punk. Manfred sucks

 

Concur. There is nothing good to say about Manfred. Total stiff.

[mvp 78]

Nope what? A said his arm did not fully negate the other aspects of his poor defense fully, meaning it was still an overall negative.

 

Then you responded by saying "partially negate" which it doesn't even do that.

[Bellhorn04]

Then you responded by saying "partially negate" which it doesn't even do that.

 

"partially negate" = troublesome terminology

[notin]

In June 2020, Rosenthal’s analysis of Manfred for The Athletic featured some light criticism, but it didn’t appear to delve into anything personal.

 

In one piece, Rosenthal wrote, “As if the perception that Manfred is beholden to owners and out of touch with players was not bad enough, he was trending on Twitter on Monday after performing a massive flip-flop.”

 

Since then, Rosenthal’s role was slightly diminished at the network. Now, he’s out entirely.

 

That’s not even that critical, and is even potentially accurate reporting (depending on perception of Manfred).

 

It’s not like he wrote “Rob Manfred is ugly and his breath is what I imagine would happen if a compost heap came to live and dined exclusively on garlic and Limburger cheese” or anything actually insulting.

 

This just makes me like Manfred less..

[notin]

"partially negate" = troublesome terminology

 

Not really. Moon’s point was Renfroe’s defense would have been even worse had it not been for his throwing ability…

[mvp 78]

"partially negate" = troublesome terminology

 

What is partial negation?

Partial negation refers to negation that applies to some members of a category but not to other members. For instance in the sentence, "I don't eat every kind of meat", the category is "meat", so this sentence could mean "I do not eat pork, but I do eat beef and chicken."

 

Sometimes his diction can be a real head scratcher.

[mvp 78]

That’s not even that critical, and is even potentially accurate reporting (depending on perception of Manfred).

 

It’s not like he wrote “Rob Manfred is ugly and his breath is what I imagine would happen if a compost heap came to live and dined exclusively on garlic and Limburger cheese” or anything actually insulting.

 

This just makes me like Manfred less..

 

Have Baseball Commissioners always been this bad?

 

Manfred - everything

Selig - ruins ASG, says all small market teams that aren't the Brewers may need to be contracted, PED explosion

Vincent - took over 5 year term of Giamatti but couldn't even make it that long, wanted to get rid of DH, 1990 lockout, wanted lifetime suspension for Steve Howe and Showalter for testifying on Howe's behalf

Giamatti - bans Rose, dies 8 days later

Ueberroth - collusion and steroids

Kuhn - labor strikes, barred Mays and Mantle due to casino promotion, moved games away from daytime, Flood lawsuit

[Elktonnick]

That’s not even that critical, and is even potentially accurate reporting (depending on perception of Manfred).

 

It’s not like he wrote “Rob Manfred is ugly and his breath is what I imagine would happen if a compost heap came to live and dined exclusively on garlic and Limburger cheese” or anything actually insulting.

 

This just makes me like Manfred less..

This only confirms my longstanding opinion that Manifred is bad for baseball.

I am sure this won't be his last bonehead move.

[mvp 78]

This only confirms my longstanding opinion that Manifred is bad for baseball.

I am sure this won't be his last bonehead move.

 

Manfred is great at uniting fans against him.

[Elktonnick]

Manfred is great at uniting fans against him.

And players too!

[oldtimer]

Not really. Moon’s point was Renfroe’s defense would have been even worse had it not been for his throwing ability…

 

Is it possible Renfroe refused to be vaccinated and was traded for that reason?

[moonslav59]

Then you responded by saying "partially negate" which it doesn't even do that.

 

Yes, his arm only partially negated his poor defense- not fully negated his poor defense. It did not totally wipe away his overall negative defense, if just made it not be really bad.

 

His arm strength was not enough to keep him from being an overall negative.

 

fangraphs:

-3.0 ErrR

-1.4 RngR

+1.9 ARM

 

As you can see his arm only partially negated his overall bad D to a -2.5 UZR, instead of even worse.

Edited January 4, 2022 by moonslav59

[moonslav59]

"partially negate" = troublesome terminology

 

To partially negate a negative actually lessens the total negative aspect of his D, but does not fully negate it to the point where it is a zero or positive.

 

The ole double negative.

[moonslav59]

What is partial negation?

Partial negation refers to negation that applies to some members of a category but not to other members. For instance in the sentence, "I don't eat every kind of meat", the category is "meat", so this sentence could mean "I do not eat pork, but I do eat beef and chicken."

 

Sometimes his diction can be a real head scratcher.

 

Or, in your case, a ball scratcher.

 

It seemed obvious. His plus arm did not fully negate his poor D. It only partially negated it- leaving it as still an overall negative.

 

Had it fully negated it, as the statement implied that I responded to, it would have made his overall D a zero or plus. (The statement read: " Renfroe's assists helped negate his bad jumps or lack of range...)

 

His arm did not fully negate his bad D. It only partially did.

 

It's not complicated.

Edited January 4, 2022 by moonslav59

[Bellhorn04]

To partially negate a negative actually lessens the total negative aspect of his D, but does not fully negate it to the point where it is a zero or positive.

 

The ole double negative.

 

I don't mean to be the grammar police, this is all just for amusement purposes.

 

But I would suggest 'mitigate' as an improvement on 'partially negate'.

Edited January 4, 2022 by Bellhorn04

[moonslav59]

Have Baseball Commissioners always been this bad?

 

Manfred - everything

Selig - ruins ASG, says all small market teams that aren't the Brewers may need to be contracted, PED explosion

Vincent - took over 5 year term of Giamatti but couldn't even make it that long, wanted to get rid of DH, 1990 lockout, wanted lifetime suspension for Steve Howe and Showalter for testifying on Howe's behalf

Giamatti - bans Rose, dies 8 days later

Ueberroth - collusion and steroids

Kuhn - labor strikes, barred Mays and Mantle due to casino promotion, moved games away from daytime, Flood lawsuit

 

Kuhn also negated the Rudi & Fingers deal to the Sox and the Vida Blue deal to the Yanks for cash.

[Bellhorn04]

I think Selig and Manfred are the worst of them. Some of the other guys had a few shreds of integrity, it seemed.

[Elktonnick]

I think Selig and Manfred are the worst of them. Some of the other guys had a few shreds of integrity, it seemed.

 

I will never forgive Manfred for his abolishing the legacy minor leagues thus erasing over a hundred years of baseball history.

[notin]

Kuhn also negated the Rudi & Fingers deal to the Sox and the Vida Blue deal to the Yanks for cash.

 

Was it Selig who negated the Sox signings of Sammy Sosa, John Wetteland and Kevin Appier after the 1994 stoppage?