The Official 2021 ALCS Thread

[moonslav59]

I will let the winnings ride on Saturday's game.

 

You should have opened an open-ended parlay for a bigger payout or just bet on the Sox to with the ALCS after game 5.

[Kimmi]

We are two wins away from going to the World Series!

 

Woot!

 

Don't let tonight be the Red Sox' last game of the series.

 

I have a feeling we are going to Game 7.

[vegasbob]

Woot!

 

Don't let tonight be the Red Sox' last game of the series.

 

I have a feeling we are going to Game 7.

 

It's what we did in the 20th century with grossly disappointing outcomes. In the 21st century the 2004 the infamous 3-0 to 4-3 series turned the tide on 7 game heart stoppers. Haven't had to endure that pain again, but maybe we need one in Houston to make sure we are alive. Win tonight and roll on to game 7

[moonslav59]

It's what we did in the 20th century with grossly disappointing outcomes. In the 21st century the 2004 the infamous 3-0 to 4-3 series turned the tide on 7 game heart stoppers. Haven't had to endure that pain again, but maybe we need one in Houston to make sure we are alive. Win tonight and roll on to game 7

 

The thing was, even after that come from 3-0 down series win, there was still the lingering doubts about finishing it off and bringing home the trophy.

 

I was still worried up 3-0 vs the Cards, thinking it would be just our luck to choke away a 3-0 lead after overcoming one.

 

Once the curse was broken, I have been a believer.

[oldtimer]

How many of our hitters went the other way of hit line drives when they made contact vs how many popped the ball up? Need to have some smart contact hitters on the team.

[moonslav59]

Someone needs to put an end to the Astros success.

 

I'm not just talking the next series.

[harmony]

Someone needs to put an end to the Astros success.

 

I'm not just talking the next series.

2022 Seattle Mariners.

 

Or not.

[oldtimer]

Requiem for a not so heavy weight

 

Eovaldi, pitching on short rest, gets unfairly tagged with the loss when Kike made what should have been called an error. By the way, Scherzer can't take a turn for the Dodgers after having been pitched too much ad developing a tired arm.

 

Whatever the Sox told themselves in their players hitting meetings certainly didn't work against the Astro's. The very discussion leaders in those meetings went 0 for again. Maybe they should look to a different approach or participation. lots of strikeouts. Lots of popups, some groundouts. It appeared that no one tried to hit away from the shift but instead swung for the fences. Whatever they did, didn't work for the last 3 games. Some due to pitching, but two hits in 30 ABs is pretty weak.

 

Devers, Bogaerts and Arroyo played good infield defense while as we suspected, Schwaber had his shortcomings. The outfield defense was okay despite Kike's one miss. He certainly was a rock out there for most of the season.

 

Cora had no bench to turn to and his optimistic view didn't spur the Sox competitive nature.

 

It's over after the Sox achieved much more than expected. The emphasis will switch to next year and how we can improve.

[jgar658]

Requiem for a not so heavy weight

 

Eovaldi, pitching on short rest, gets unfairly tagged with the loss when Kike made what should have been called an error. By the way, Scherzer can't take a turn for the Dodgers after having been pitched too much ad developing a tired arm.

 

Whatever the Sox told themselves in their players hitting meetings certainly didn't work against the Astro's. The very discussion leaders in those meetings went 0 for again. Maybe they should look to a different approach or participation. lots of strikeouts. Lots of popups, some groundouts. It appeared that no one tried to hit away from the shift but instead swung for the fences. Whatever they did, didn't work for the last 3 games. Some due to pitching, but two hits in 30 ABs is pretty weak.

 

Devers, Bogaerts and Arroyo played good infield defense while as we suspected, Schwaber had his shortcomings. The outfield defense was okay despite Kike's one miss. He certainly was a rock out there for most of the season.

 

Cora had no bench to turn to and his optimistic view didn't spur the Sox competitive nature.

 

It's over after the Sox achieved much more than expected. The emphasis will switch to next year and how we can improve.

 

Astros pitchers Garcia and Framber had incredible stuff. All Sox hitters looked helpless. Where do they find those pitchers?

 

There is no contact hitter on the bench. As soon as the pinch hitters came up to bat I saw strikeouts.

[notin]

2022 Seattle Mariners.

 

Or not.

 

First they need to stop contributing to it…

[moonslav59]

First they need to stop contributing to it…

 

I was going to say something very similar, and while the A's are no push-overs, they will never spend like the Astros.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

For me, the difference seemed to come to to the bullpens. Both teams were evenly matched in many ways but the Astros had the superior bullpen and that made the difference. I could be wrong, I haven't looked at the bullpen data, but it seems like every time the Red Sox went to the bullpen, runs were given up. In contrast, the Astros bullpen was much more effective. In game 4, for example, it looked like the Red Sox might cruise to an easy win when they started to beat up on Zack Grienke, but Baker went to the bullpen early and shut the Red Sox down.

 

Outside of Whitlock, can you name one Red Sox reliever that you trust? In retrospect, Barnes' implosion ended up being a big deal, as that forced Whitlock into a late inning role and weakened the set-up relievers. Ottavino had his typical late season struggles. Robles had his moments but he isn't a guy you are going to trust in a big spot. The Red Sox have a big challenge next year: they must rebuild the bullpen. And if they plan to move Whitlock to the rotation, that is one less quality arm for the bullpen.

[Bellhorn04]

For me, the difference seemed to come to to the bullpens. Both teams were evenly matched in many ways but the Astros had the superior bullpen and that made the difference. I could be wrong, I haven't looked at the bullpen data, but it seems like every time the Red Sox went to the bullpen, runs were given up. In contrast, the Astros bullpen was much more effective. In game 4, for example, it looked like the Red Sox might cruise to an easy win when they started to beat up on Zack Grienke, but Baker went to the bullpen early and shut the Red Sox down.

 

The Astros pitching was great start to finish the last 2 games. You can't leave Valdez and Garcia out of it. They dominated.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

For me, the difference seemed to come to to the bullpens. Both teams were evenly matched in many ways but the Astros had the superior bullpen and that made the difference. I could be wrong, I haven't looked at the bullpen data, but it seems like every time the Red Sox went to the bullpen, runs were given up. In contrast, the Astros bullpen was much more effective. In game 4, for example, it looked like the Red Sox might cruise to an easy win when they started to beat up on Zack Grienke, but Baker went to the bullpen early and shut the Red Sox down.

 

Outside of Whitlock, can you name one Red Sox reliever that you trust? In retrospect, Barnes' implosion ended up being a big deal, as that forced Whitlock into a late inning role and weakened the set-up relievers. Ottavino had his typical late season struggles. Robles had his moments but he isn't a guy you are going to trust in a big spot. The Red Sox have a big challenge next year: they must rebuild the bullpen. And if they plan to move Whitlock to the rotation, that is one less quality arm for the bullpen.

 

Makes me wonder how many teams in recent history got to the LCS and still needed to fix as many holes as the SOX will have to before next season. This 2021 version of the SOX overachieved and I thank them for that.

[moonslav59]

For me, the difference seemed to come to to the bullpens. Both teams were evenly matched in many ways but the Astros had the superior bullpen and that made the difference. I could be wrong, I haven't looked at the bullpen data, but it seems like every time the Red Sox went to the bullpen, runs were given up. In contrast, the Astros bullpen was much more effective. In game 4, for example, it looked like the Red Sox might cruise to an easy win when they started to beat up on Zack Grienke, but Baker went to the bullpen early and shut the Red Sox down.

 

Outside of Whitlock, can you name one Red Sox reliever that you trust? In retrospect, Barnes' implosion ended up being a big deal, as that forced Whitlock into a late inning role and weakened the set-up relievers. Ottavino had his typical late season struggles. Robles had his moments but he isn't a guy you are going to trust in a big spot. The Red Sox have a big challenge next year: they must rebuild the bullpen. And if they plan to move Whitlock to the rotation, that is one less quality arm for the bullpen.

 

The Astros pen came together at just the right time.

 

They were not all that great for most of the year.

 

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

The Astros pen came together at just the right time.

 

They were not all that great for most of the year.

 

 

True, but they did pick up some BP help at the trade deadline. Much more than the SOX did. Barnes imploding in the 2nd half had a lot to do with the SOX BP struggles, obviously.

[dgalehouse]

The Sox are a very good team , but they are still missing a few pieces of the puzzle. The Astros are just a little bit better. A more complete team. In the end , they simply outhit and out pitched the Sox. Outscored them 23-3 over the final three games. They deserve to go to the Fall Classic.

[harmony]

First they need to stop contributing to it…

The Seattle Mariners are headed in that direction, going 8-11 (.421) against the Houston Astros this year after going 3-7 (.300) in 2020 and 1-18 (.053) in 2019.

 

The Red Sox contributed a 2-5 (.286) record against the Astros this year before going 2-4 (.333) in the postseason.

Edited October 23, 2021 by harmony

[moonslav59]

True, but they did pick up some BP help at the trade deadline. Much more than the SOX did. Barnes imploding in the 2nd half had a lot to do with the SOX BP struggles, obviously.

 

Much of the pitching help they picked up did worse than Robles and Davis.

 

They just gelled at the right time.

 

Graveman is good, don't get me wrong, but he usually isn't this good, and I never heard his name mentioned by any posters as a possible target for Bloom.

[moonslav59]

The Sox are a very good team , but they are still missing a few pieces of the puzzle. The Astros are just a little bit better. A more complete team. In the end , they simply outhit and out pitched the Sox. Outscored them 23-3 over the final three games. They deserve to go to the Fall Classic.

 

Except that they likely cheated... LOL.

[harmony]

Except that they likely cheated... LOL.

Which team likely cheated?

[Maxbialystock]

The Astros definitely cheated. I know for a fact that their pitchers unfairly knew what pitch their catcher was signaling for. This gave them a clear advantage over the Sox hitters.

[Maxbialystock]

The ALCS was just weird. The Sox looked invincible after 3 games and completely vincible in the next 3. The Astros pitching was amazing in those final 3 games. I griped about the Sox hitting, but only great pitching can emasculate a terrific lineup that quickly and for that long. I will probably root for the Astros in the WS.

 

Also, I want that guy Alvarez investigated. Forget the righties. He destroyed our lefties. He likes fastballs, but he likes breaking balls even more. Down and away? No problemo. Also, check that birth certificate because no way he is 24. Same goes for that Wander guy with the Rays. He is not, repeat not, 20.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

 

Graveman is good, don't get me wrong, but he usually isn't this good, and I never heard his name mentioned by any posters as a possible target for Bloom.

 

We would've been clamoring for him, if we thought he was being shopped. Who knew a team very much in contention, not called Rays, would be willing to deal their closer?

[harmony]

We would've been clamoring for him, if we thought he was being shopped. Who knew a team very much in contention, not called Rays, would be willing to deal their closer?

Seattle GM Jerry Dipoto likely shopped Kendall Graveman to many teams and took the best offer in the end. The Red Sox may have been in the mix but could not match other offers.

 

Or not.

 

After the trade Kendall Graveman posted 0.3 fWAR in 23 appearances while fellow short-timer Joe Smith, the veteran reliever who went from Houston to Seattle, posted 0.5 fWAR in 23 appearances. The key for the Mariners was four-plus years of 24-year-old infielder Abraham Toro, who posted 0.8 fWAR in 60 games with the M's.

 

The same week Seattle acquired three-plus years of part-time Tampa Bay closer Diego Castillo, whom the Rays were unlikely the trade to a division rival.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

When I get the time, I'll compare starting pitchers ERA and ratios and then do the same for the bullpen. My feeling is that the Red Sox's starters were close to the Astros starters in overall performance, but that the edge was significant when it came to the bullpens, with the Astros bullpen getting it done and the Red Sox bullpen always giving up runs.

 

When did the Red Sox bullpen not falter? It faltered in game 6, game 5, game 4, and game 1. The game 1 decision to not use Whitlock ended up being a pretty big deal. Also, Houck was terrible in this series, but maybe the Red Sox are to blame for that, thinking he could be a stopper from the bullpen but maybe that isn't what he is.....

 

The only time the Red Sox bullpen came in and didn't give up any runs was game 3. That isn't good enough.

Edited October 23, 2021 by Fan_since_Boggs

[Yaz Fan Since 67]

Well it was a great ride and I'm damned proud of our team. They gave us a lot of thrills and knocked out the Yankees, then the best team in the league. I have no complaints and I'll probably go back to lurking here now and then until next year.

 

Peace.

[moonslav59]

Which team likely cheated?

 

Yours.

[moonslav59]

Well it was a great ride and I'm damned proud of our team. They gave us a lot of thrills and knocked out the Yankees, then the best team in the league. I have no complaints and I'll probably go back to lurking here now and then until next year.

 

Peace.

 

Short.

 

Sweet.

 

Complete.

[harmony]

Yours.

Any evidence of cheating should be forwarded to the commissioner's office.