just wondering

[cp176]

I don't fault any player for leaving Boston for more money elsewhere. Why shouldn't they ?

 

God Bless Mookie and good luck but signing the two aces that we currently have was a big deal whether it continues on or not. You build franchises around people like these two. We were fortunate to sign them. Kind of looks to me as though they like being in Boston.

[Maxbialystock]

So ok - who has the guts here to admit that in fact they might have been wrong with respect to the extensions of both Eovaldi and Sale? Not only are they outstanding players, they have a fierce desire to win plus they appear to be pretty loyal.

 

If this is a referendum on DD, I'm glad he's gone and much prefer Bloom.

 

That said, I thought Eovaldi and Sale both earned their pay in that incredible season of 2018. Eovaldi was terrific in the postseason. He's been a little up and down since then, but this year I think he simply has a better repertoire, especially the addition of the splitter and the knuckle curve.

 

Chris Sale is the most professional pitcher I've ever seen on a Sox team. That said, I have doubts about his durability vis a vis his long term contract.

[mvp 78]

God Bless Mookie and good luck but signing the two aces that we currently have was a big deal whether it continues on or not. You build franchises around people like these two. We were fortunate to sign them. Kind of looks to me as though they like being in Boston.

 

They have 2?

[mvp 78]

If this is a referendum on DD, I'm glad he's gone and much prefer Bloom.

 

That said, I thought Eovaldi and Sale both earned their pay in that incredible season of 2018. Eovaldi was terrific in the postseason. He's been a little up and down since then, but this year I think he simply has a better repertoire, especially the addition of the splitter and the knuckle curve.

 

Chris Sale is the most professional pitcher I've ever seen on a Sox team. That said, I have doubts about his durability vis a vis his long term contract.

 

You don't earn your contract based off of things that happened before the contract was even signed.

[moonslav59]

You don't earn your contract based off of things that happened before the contract was even signed.

 

It's how people get signed. It's based on what you did and what you are expected to do.

 

True, you don't technically "earn" it until you start playing under the new deal and show whether you earned it or not.

 

Also, since many of these high-price players were technically underpaid before they get the new deal, one can argue they earned some of it.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

So ok - who has the guts here to admit that in fact they might have been wrong with respect to the extensions of both Eovaldi and Sale? Not only are they outstanding players, they have a fierce desire to win plus they appear to be pretty loyal.

 

Weighing in: I loved Sale in '17 and '18 -- how can you not -- but admit I was ambivalent when he signed the extension. I wondered why a guy who was so underpaid through 2018 would blow off his shot at free agency in his prime, but I also wanted to trust that Red Sox management knew his health concerns were minor enough to lock him up.

 

I was all in on Eovaldi, and thought he was the perfect investment -- a guy with a world of potential putting it all together, and in the postseason, no less. I stressed that someone else would swoop in with more years and dollars, and we'd have to watch Nate win Cy Youngs for a rival.

 

As for offers to Mookie, once I heard John Henry's words in an interview after 2019, I assumed Betts was as good as gone. When JH said, "Mookie has to decide whether he wants to play the rest of his career in Boston," I took it as face-value that he actually didn't... I didn't interpret Henry as bitter or giving ultimatums (for example: if Mookie really wants to stay in Boston, then he'd better take what we're willing to pay him).

[mvp 78]

If Mookie really wants to stay in Boston, then he'd better take what we're willing to pay him.

 

That's exactly what JH meant though.

[notin]

Weighing in: I loved Sale in '17 and '18 -- how can you not -- but admit I was ambivalent when he signed the extension. I wondered why a guy who was so underpaid through 2018 would blow off his shot at free agency in his prime, but I also wanted to trust that Red Sox management knew his health concerns were minor enough to lock him up.

 

I was all in on Eovaldi, and thought he was the perfect investment -- a guy with a world of potential putting it all together, and in the postseason, no less. I stressed that someone else would swoop in with more years and dollars, and we'd have to watch Nate win Cy Youngs for a rival.

 

As for offers to Mookie, once I heard John Henry's words in an interview after 2019, I assumed Betts was as good as gone. When JH said, "Mookie has to decide whether he wants to play the rest of his career in Boston," I took it as face-value that he actually didn't... I didn't interpret Henry as bitter or giving ultimatums (for example: if Mookie really wants to stay in Boston, then he'd better take what we're willing to pay him).

 

I assumed Sale took less because he was already injured and feared an injury-plagued or limited season would severely impact his earning power…

[vegasbob]

Eovaldi has given us 95% of a very good season and does appear to be a true competitor , like Sale . Juxtapose those two with soon to be FA Erod and your gut feel when he goes out to the mound. In a year where the pitching did, in fact, include Ryan Weber, we are lucky to have a Nate Eovaldi working for us.

[moonslav59]

second half numbers:

 

2.40 C Sale 6 GS 30 IP

3.42 Houck 10 GS/50IP (2 as RP)

3.45 Eovaldi 12 GS/70 IP

3.76 Richards 4GS/ 41 IP (14 as RP)

4.11 E Rod 12 GS/57 IP

5.29 Pivetta 10 GS/ 48 IP

7.40 M Perez 4 GS/ 24 IP (11 as RP)

 

ERod over last 15 GS: 3.87 and last 14 GS: 3.97

[Larry Cook]

Watching sale pitch tonight and I am noticing two things:

 

1.) the velocity is not what I expected.

 

2.) right handed hitters are really seeing his ball well and making fairly loud contact.

[moonslav59]

Watching sale pitch tonight and I am noticing two things:

 

1.) the velocity is not what I expected.

 

2.) right handed hitters are really seeing his ball well and making fairly loud contact.

 

He’s been mid 90’s. Did you expect more or less?

[Larry Cook]

He’s been mid 90’s. Did you expect more or less?

 

That is about what I was expecting.

 

And I know that is what the gun says, but he looks like 90-92! Mets looked like they were digging in against him.

[mvp 78]

There’s a lot of conjecture being passed off as fact here. Do we really know when they “gave up” on Betts?

 

We will never know. Everything about the Betts argument is conjecture. The only thing that we can say is wrong is that the complaints about Betts' mom telling him not to take the Sox' deal are unfounded as Betts ended up getting a better deal after all.

[mvp 78]

Watching sale pitch tonight and I am noticing two things:

 

1.) the velocity is not what I expected.

 

2.) right handed hitters are really seeing his ball well and making fairly loud contact.

 

He's 70% Sale right now. Some people have inferred that we have 2 aces right now, but it's just not true. We'll see if Sale can get back there in 2022.

[Bellhorn04]

We will never know. Everything about the Betts argument is conjecture. The only thing that we can say is wrong is that the complaints about Betts' mom telling him not to take the Sox' deal are unfounded as Betts ended up getting a better deal after all.

 

And that's not wrong, from a selfish perspective. She hurt us.

[mvp 78]

And that's not wrong, from a selfish perspective. She hurt us.

 

"If I was his mom, I'd tell him to take the deal."

 

That poster would be wrong because Betts' mom was right to wait it out.

[Bellhorn04]

"If I was his mom, I'd tell him to take the deal."

 

That poster would be wrong because Betts' mom was right to wait it out.

 

Yes, with 20/20 hindsight, very wrong.

[mvp 78]

Yes, with 20/20 hindsight, very wrong.

 

Yes, with hindsight we can determine who was right and who was wrong. That's how it works.

[Bellhorn04]

Yes, with hindsight we can determine who was right and who was wrong. That's how it works.

 

That's certainly how it works on baseball forums.

[mvp 78]

That's certainly how it works on baseball forums.

 

Our CFO likes to play the gotcha game too. He's the most hated man in the company. People say "(MVP), when is he getting fired so that you can have his job?" And I say "I don't know. Go ask the owner's life coach." Things are very normal here.

[moonslav59]

He's 70% Sale right now. Some people have inferred that we have 2 aces right now, but it's just not true. We'll see if Sale can get back there in 2022.

 

Is a 70-80% Sale as good or better than other AL team's #2?

[mvp 78]

Is a 70-80% Sale as good or better than other AL team's #2?

 

As good, sure. Better? Depends on the team. He's not an ace though.

[moonslav59]

As good, sure. Better? Depends on the team. He's not an ace though.

 

He doesn't seem like one, at the moment, but it might depend on your definition of "ace."

 

I like to go by roughly the best 30 pitchers in MLB.

 

Right now, he is 30th in ERA- among all pitchers with 35+ IP. (6th among starters.)

 

He's 20th in xFIP-, right ahead of Eovaldi.

 

SIERA

15. Houck 3.43

17. Sale 3.44

21. Eovaldi 3.53

29. ERod 3.68

 

Sale's 1.29 WHIP is not top 30.

 

I'm not presenting these facts to argue he is currently top 30, but I do think he's done pretty well since returning and has a ways to go to be called an ace again.

 

 

 

 

[notin]

"If I was his mom, I'd tell him to take the deal."

 

That poster would be wrong because Betts' mom was right to wait it out.

 

Also that poster was probably male and therefore incapable of birthing Mookie…

[mvp 78]

Also that poster was probably male and therefore incapable of birthing Mookie…

 

The two genders:

Female

Poster

[Sox fan NYC]

Both players can deliver when it counts and make them great signings. Never expected a playoff appearance this year. If we play the Yankees who gets the start? I say Nate. He has a great record vs NY

[moonslav59]

Both players can deliver when it counts and make them great signings. Never expected a playoff appearance this year. If we play the Yankees who gets the start? I say Nate. He has a great record vs NY

 

It’s gotta be Nate, unless he is needed in the final game of the regular season.

 

My guess is we end the season like this...

 

Eovaldi v NYY (Cole)

Pivetta v NYY (Cortes)

ERod v NYY (Montgomery) night

Off

Sale @ BAL

Eovaldi @BAL

Pivetta @ BAL

ERod @ WSH

Seabold/Houck @ WSH

Sale, if needed @WSH

 

Playoffs: Eovaldi game 1, Sale game 2 unless needed on last day of season, ERod game 3.

[Larry Cook]

He's 70% Sale right now. Some people have inferred that we have 2 aces right now, but it's just not true. We'll see if Sale can get back there in 2022.

 

I agree 100 percent.

[Kimmi]

So ok - who has the guts here to admit that in fact they might have been wrong with respect to the extensions of both Eovaldi and Sale? Not only are they outstanding players, they have a fierce desire to win plus they appear to be pretty loyal.

 

As much as I have criticized Dombrowski, I was on board with both of these extensions.

 

Thanks Dave!

 

Oddly enough, I was more against the initial trade for Sale than I was against his extension.