trade deadline

[oldtimer]

Having JD and Duran out didn't help much.

 

Going forward this year, if all healthy, we have the following hitters:

 

Devers

Bogey

JDM

Schwarber

Verdugo

Kike

Arroyo

Duran

Vazquez/Plawecki

 

All those guys on the lineup card and you have a decent offense.

 

You left Renfroe off your list and he has been a solid presence for us this year. One guy sits of those 10 and it could be that we rest players often enough so they all can get into the action. With this lineup, we should be as formidable as any ML club.

[Bellhorn04]

You left Renfroe off your list and he has been a solid presence for us this year. One guy sits of those 10 and it could be that we rest players often enough so they all can get into the action. With this lineup, we should be as formidable as any ML club.

 

Thanks, I had a feeling I might be missing someone.

[notin]

Bloom failed the organization by doing dumb things like trading for two bullpen arms that aren't much better than a few guys at AAA. But more importantly, while the Schwarber trade was excellent, he needed to upgrade the position player depth so that marginal players could be jettisoned, such as Dalbec, Cordero, and Gonzalez, and replaced by useful depth players who can occasionally contribute. I do think that S.Pearce, putting aside his W.S. MVP and looking at him as a regular season player, is a pretty good prototype of the kind of player the Red Sox should have targeted and acquired at the deadline. A player like Pearce wouldn't cost the Red Sox a top prospect.

 

By strengthening the bench and jettisoning useless garbage like Gonzalez, Dalbec, and Cordero, maybe the Red Sox win the first game of the Blue Jays double-hitter, maybe they score a few extra runs with fewer automatic outs in the lineup. The Red Sox lineup is similar to a national league lineup with the pitcher hitting--there are too many easy outs, too many players with fringe hitting skills.

 

The fact that the Red Sox are still giving a ton of at bats to Gonzalez, Dalbec, and Cordero, in a season in which the Red Sox had already given them too many at bats, speaks to Bloom's failure at the deadline and perhaps Cora's failure as manager of the Red Sox. Maybe Cora should have asked the front office for better players, someone needed to do something, that much is clear.

 

What's wrong with the idea of improving your position player depth? It seems like a good idea to me especially if your present position player depth is totally inadequate and that is obviously the case with the Red Sox: Dalbec 73 OPS+, Cordero 44 OPS+, Gonzalez 56 OPS+.

 

You do realize that you’re griping that a second place team has too weak of a bench and therefore the GM failed.

 

We really needed a starting pitcher first. The players who will push those three out of the starting lineup will all be back soon…

[Fan_since_Boggs]

if all healthy,

 

The urgency would be mitigated if all healthy, but the Red Sox are not all healthy and there are only two months of the season left. But the other assumption is that Schwarber, if or once healthy, can play 1b. Problem is, if he can't play 1b, the Red Sox will continue constructing lineups like a NL team with the pitcher batting.

 

While the Rays, Blue Jays, and Yankees improved at the deadline, the Red Sox did not immediately improve. They brought in two worthless relievers and an injured player who might solve a major weakness whenever he gets healthy. That wasn't good enough--the results speak for themselves. The Red Sox needed an SP upgrade as priority number 1, but a S.Pearce type of upgrade would have helped a slumping offense. The word that comes to mind is, "reinforcements."

 

It is hard to obtain SP upgrades, and so I can look the other way on that one, but obtaining a S.Pearce type shouldn't be too expensive or beyond the capacity of the general manager.

Edited August 8, 2021 by Fan_since_Boggs

[Bellhorn04]

The urgency would be mitigated if all healthy, but the Red Sox are not all healthy and there are only two months of the season left. But the other assumption is that Schwarber, if or once healthy, can play 1b. Problem is, if he can't play 1b, the Red Sox will continue constructing lineups like a NL team with the pitcher batting.

 

While the Rays, Blue Jays, and Yankees improved at the deadline, the Red Sox did not immediately improve. They brought in two worthless relievers and an injured player who might solve a major weakness whenever he gets healthy. That wasn't good enough--the results speak for themselves. The Red Sox needed an SP upgrade as priority number 1, but a S.Pearce type of upgrade would have helped a slumping offense. The word that comes to mind is, "reinforcements."

 

It is hard to obtain SP upgrades, and so I can look the other way on that one, but obtaining a S.Pearce type shouldn't be too expensive or beyond the capacity of the general manager.

 

But why keep bringing up Pearce when we got Schwarber?

[Fan_since_Boggs]

Because Schwarber might not make it at first base or may be so counterproductive defensively at 1b that it offsets some of his offensive production. If the Red Sox acquired someone with a track record of playing 1b, they could still find playing time for Schwarber especially with the possibility that Duran will need time in 2022 to figure out ML pitching.

 

Also, if there are two months left in the season, why spend one-fourth (or more) of that period without adequate reinforcements waiting for the injured players to return? It is clear now that the Red Sox have decided to take that risk. We will see how it works out. So far, not so good, but the Red Sox could still win the division. If that happens, Bloom will look a lot smarter than he does now.

 

And how quickly is Schwarber going to return? Some say in a week or two but some have said longer. In the best scenario, the Red Sox play one-fourth of the final two months without him, but one-fourth is a large chunk of baseball games in a two month window (as Red Sox fans are learning the hard way). If he is out longer, the Red Sox are screwed even more.

Edited August 8, 2021 by Fan_since_Boggs

[jacksonianmarch]

Schwarber ain't coming back anytime soon

[a700hitter]

Schwarber ain't coming back anytime soon

But the reports are that he is making terrific progress. He tied his own shoes yesterday.

[mvp 78]

If the prices were so crazy at the deadline, why not be sellers?

[Bellhorn04]

If the prices were so crazy at the deadline, why not be sellers?

 

I really don't think it was the team's intent to give up on 2021. Nobody saw this kind of slide coming. Expectations of adding Sale/Houck/Schwarber/Arroyo etc.

[moonslav59]

I really don't think it was the team's intent to give up on 2021. Nobody saw this kind of slide coming. Expectations of adding Sale/Houck/Schwarber/Arroyo etc.

 

They obviously saw other teams improving, but felt we could hold our own (.500 ish) until we were able to add Sale, Houck, Schwarber, Arroyo, Brasier...

 

This plan still may work, except the .500 ish part.

[mvp 78]

They obviously saw other teams improving, but felt we could hold our own (.500 ish) until we were able to add Sale, Houck, Schwarber, Arroyo, Brasier...

 

This plan still may work, except the .500 ish part.

 

They were wrong.

[moonslav59]

They were wrong.

 

Did you foresee us going 2 and 20?

[Bellhorn04]

They were wrong.

 

Can't blame them for not seeing this kind of skid.

 

And if the team is as bad going forward as they are in this skid, adding another arm wasn't enough.

[a700hitter]

Can't blame them for not seeing this kind of skid.

 

And if the team is as bad going forward as they are in this skid, adding another arm wasn't enough.

Their profession involves making these evaluations.

[notin]

Their profession involves making these evaluations.

 

There’s a difference between seeing whether or not a team’s pace is sustainable over 2 months and predicting a 2-9 skid in which the closer gives up 7 earned runs in 1.2 innings…

[Nick]

Their profession involves making these evaluations.

 

Someone here gave me s*** when I said Barnes looked different today and he did back in April/May. He argued his stats aren't much different.

 

My point is Barnes is not breaking off his curveball as he did earlier. Damn the stats. It's matter of time the difference was going to catch up.

 

You can't deceive the eyes forever.

 

Workman had lucky outings where he was hit hard but right at someone. You can't then say well he pitched without given up a run. Stats alone can't measure someone's worth. The guy was getting hammered.

[mvp 78]

Did you foresee us going 2 and 20?

 

Did management? My opinion doesn't matter.

 

In hindsight, if the prices were that high, why not move some guys if you're trying to look towards the future?

[mvp 78]

Someone here gave me s*** when I said Barnes looked different today and he did back in April/May. He argued his stats aren't much different.

 

My point is Barnes is not breaking off his curveball as he did earlier. Damn the stats. It's matter of time the difference was going to catch up.

 

You can't deceive the eyes forever.

 

Workman had lucky outings where he was hit hard but right at someone. You can't then say well he pitched without given up a run. Stats alone can't measure someone's worth. The guy was getting hammered.

 

Last night

 

Earlier in the year

 

You are correct that the vertical movement of his pitches isn't as great as it was earlier in the year. I think the bigger issue is him just throwing noncompetitive pitches out of the zone.

[notin]

Someone here gave me s*** when I said Barnes looked different today and he did back in April/May. He argued his stats aren't much different.

 

 

Still not standing by the comment that was questioned.

 

You said “Barnes hasn’t been the same since stickygate.” Verbatim.

 

That’s not an observation; that’s an accusation…

[notin]

Last night

 

Earlier in the year

 

You are correct that the vertical movement of his pitches isn't as great as it was earlier in the year. I think the bigger issue is him just throwing noncompetitive pitches out of the zone.

 

And not trusting his heat against Wander Franco, who was clearly struggling to keep up with it…

[Bellhorn04]

Did management? My opinion doesn't matter.

 

In hindsight, if the prices were that high, why not move some guys if you're trying to look towards the future?

 

I don't believe you're completely serious with this.

[mvp 78]

And not trusting his heat against Wander Franco, who was clearly struggling to keep up with it…

 

Weird pitch sequence

 

KnuckleCurve - ball noncompetitive

KnuckleCurve - ball (if Wander got that pitch again it's on the Mass Pike)

KnuckleCurve - ball noncompetitive

FB - taken

FB - foul

FB - foul

KnuckleCurve - ball noncompetitive

[mvp 78]

I don't believe you're completely serious with this.

 

How high were these prices really? If it's that much of a seller's market, why not trade a guy or two?

[Bellhorn04]

How high were these prices really? If it's that much of a seller's market, why not trade a guy or two?

 

It was a good seller's market if you had a Scherzer/Trea Turner or a Berrios to sell. And those teams were way out of it so they did the logical thing.

 

The Red Sox were in first place.

[mvp 78]

It was a good seller's market if you had a Scherzer/Trea Turner or a Berrios to sell. And those teams were way out of it so they did the logical thing.

 

The Red Sox were in first place.

 

Yup.

[Maxbialystock]

Someone here gave me s*** when I said Barnes looked different today and he did back in April/May. He argued his stats aren't much different.

 

My point is Barnes is not breaking off his curveball as he did earlier. Damn the stats. It's matter of time the difference was going to catch up.

 

You can't deceive the eyes forever.

 

Workman had lucky outings where he was hit hard but right at someone. You can't then say well he pitched without given up a run. Stats alone can't measure someone's worth. The guy was getting hammered.

 

I could have been one of those who disagreed with you, but now agree completely Barnes is dead, dead, dead without a great knuckle curveball. Actually, a decent knuckle curve can work if he can command it and not throw it in the middle of the strike zone. Meanwhile, right now is fastball might as well be renamed "dingerball," because it's the one that is just killing him.

 

The WEEI guys want Barnes to stick with the fastball and curve, but right now I think his pretty decent changeup could help him.

 

But, yes, you and others who have questioned Barnes were dead on target and us defenders were wrong.

[Maxbialystock]

Last night

 

Earlier in the year

 

You are correct that the vertical movement of his pitches isn't as great as it was earlier in the year. I think the bigger issue is him just throwing noncompetitive pitches out of the zone.

 

Neat word, noncompetitive, because it implies location, rotation, and speed.

[mvp 78]

I could have been one of those who disagreed with you, but now agree completely Barnes is dead, dead, dead without a great knuckle curveball. Actually, a decent knuckle curve can work if he can command it and not throw it in the middle of the strike zone. Meanwhile, right now is fastball might as well be renamed "dingerball," because it's the one that is just killing him.

 

The WEEI guys want Barnes to stick with the fastball and curve, but right now I think his pretty decent changeup could help him.

 

But, yes, you and others who have questioned Barnes were dead on target and us defenders were wrong.

 

Last night, his issue was throwing too many curves in the dirt. Couldn't locate it at all. Need to pick up the bottom of the zone sometimes or hitters will just not swing.

 

According to statcast, he's only thrown 8 changeups this season. He has a 100% whiff rate on those though...

[moonslav59]

Maybe we should have been sellers.