trade deadline

[moonslav59]

You mentioned that he'd be squeezed out by rule V guys. You're just saying reduced playing time?

 

I'd hold off on Arauz until Rule 5 time.

 

We'll get to see more of him by then, as well as more from Potts, Rosario, Robles, Davis and a few other bubble players.

 

I still have slim hopes for Arauz.

 

Santana and Andriese? I'm done with both.

 

noting points out 2 will have to go for Sale and Brasier, so the 3rd guy for Munoz is a tougher call. Maybe that's why that move has not been done, yet.

 

Here are the bubble players I imagine may not make next year's 40 man (1 or 2 might):

 

Robles

Potts

Rosario

Davis

Ro. Hernandez

Bazardo (health outlook)

 

(Long shot DFA's: Marwin, Richards, Perez)

 

Cordero & Dalbec will be on the 2020 40 man roster, unless they are traded.

[moonslav59]

DD had multiple first place finishes and a flag. Bloom isn't there yet.

 

DD also caused 2019 and 2020.

 

Trading away prospects to win now, and going over the tax line causing a future year reset is exactly what DD did, and now, you want Bloom to repeat just that.

 

You can convince yourself that Henry will spend as much as you want him to, every year, and not care about the taxes, especially year 2 and 3, but until I see it, I'm going off the idea he dislikes paying taxes more than a year or two- spread out. The history sows the Sox have reset very often and several tiems, stayed under for 2-3 years in a row.

 

What evidence do you have that suggests Henry is changing that strategy or philosophy?

[moonslav59]

I'm an accountant and I know that's not true.

 

Okay, that's exxtreme, but $1.00 is not much different from $10M, when the multiplier effects of going over this year kick in 3 years from now, and we are ready to go over by $19M in 2024.

[notin]

DD also caused 2019 and 2020.

 

Trading away prospects to win now, and going over the tax line causing a future year reset is exactly what DD did, and now, you want Bloom to repeat just that.

 

You can convince yourself that Henry will spend as much as you want him to, every year, and not care about the taxes, especially year 2 and 3, but until I see it, I'm going off the idea he dislikes paying taxes more than a year or two- spread out. The history sows the Sox have reset very often and several tiems, stayed under for 2-3 years in a row.

 

What evidence do you have that suggests Henry is changing that strategy or philosophy?

 

2020 wasn’t the first time Henry reigned in the purse strings and halted the spending. He also did it to Cherington twice. The 2012 team spending was so limited the Sox had to move Marco Scutaro just to squeeze Cody Ross onto the roster. And even after winning it all in 2013, Cherington was not allowed to give a big contract to any pitcher over 30. That was lifted very conveniently for Dombrowski so he could get David Price on the roster…

[mvp 78]

DD also caused 2019 and 2020.

 

Trading away prospects to win now, and going over the tax line causing a future year reset is exactly what DD did, and now, you want Bloom to repeat just that.

 

You can convince yourself that Henry will spend as much as you want him to, every year, and not care about the taxes, especially year 2 and 3, but until I see it, I'm going off the idea he dislikes paying taxes more than a year or two- spread out. The history sows the Sox have reset very often and several tiems, stayed under for 2-3 years in a row.

 

What evidence do you have that suggests Henry is changing that strategy or philosophy?

 

The Sox have only won 1 title when under the luxury tax and that was the season that most people still call a fluke.

 

Did DD take a crowbar to Sale in 2019? Did he tell Eovaldi to pitch to a 6 ERA? Did DD mandate the additional rest Cora gave to pitchers that April?

[mvp 78]

2020 wasn’t the first time Henry reigned in the purse strings and halted the spending. He also did it to Cherington twice. The 2012 team spending was so limited the Sox had to move Marco Scutaro just to squeeze Cody Ross onto the roster. And even after winning it all in 2013, Cherington was not allowed to give a big contract to any pitcher over 30. That was lifted very conveniently for Dombrowski so he could get David Price on the roster…

 

Should have signed Max. Not backseat driving either.

[moonslav59]

The Sox have only won 1 title when under the luxury tax and that was the season that most people still call a fluke.

 

Did DD take a crowbar to Sale in 2019? Did he tell Eovaldi to pitch to a 6 ERA? Did DD mandate the additional rest Cora gave to pitchers that April?

 

Nobody is arguing against the idea that spending more increases the odds of winning.

 

The fact is, Henry cares about spending and avoids the 3rd year mega taxes like the plague.

 

Like it or not: that's the way it has been and will likely continue.

 

My guess is, Bloom and Henry determined the best time to go way over the tax line was not 2021 but more like 2022 or 2023/2024. He did not want the tax clock on year 2 or 3 in those years.

 

I get the argument about us knowing we are in the playoff hunt, this year and not knowing in future years, so why not go over, this year? That point has merit.

 

The only thing that really makes a difference, is what Henry thinks.

[moonslav59]

Should have signed Max. Not backseat driving either.

 

Had we signed Max instead of HRam and Pablito, things would have been way different.

[mvp 78]

The only thing that really makes a difference, is what Henry thinks.

 

I would agree, which is why I think certain posters should lay off their DD hate.

[notin]

I would agree, which is why I think certain posters should lay off their DD hate.

 

Nope.

 

Dombrowski painted my daughter’s guinea pigs bright orange and tattooed the flag of Namibia on my grandmother’s forehead.

 

This is far from over…

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I would agree, which is why I think certain posters should lay off their DD hate.

 

The worst thing that devious dastard Doctor Doom did was steal the power cosmic from the Silver Surfer.

[Bellhorn04]

That's just not true.

 

I did mention it was something to think about, if we were not in the playoff race or tried to be buyers aand sellers like the Rays do. (Yes, I mentioned Barnes, Ottavino & ERod but never said I wanted to trade them.)

 

June 5/21 on Realistic Look Part 2 was the day we got into the discussion about this. You suggested it could be a good idea to trade Barnes even if we were in contention.

[mvp 78]

Nope.

 

Dombrowski painted my daughter’s guinea pigs bright orange and tattooed the flag of Namibia on my grandmother’s forehead.

 

This is far from over…

 

He had to do that stuff, desperately.

[mvp 78]

June 5/21 on Realistic Look Part 2 was the day we got into the discussion about this. You suggested it could be a good idea to trade Barnes even if we were in contention.

 

omgomgomgomg

[notin]

June 5/21 on Realistic Look Part 2 was the day we got into the discussion about this. You suggested it could be a good idea to trade Barnes even if we were in contention.

 

It was worth discussing on an irrelevant Internet forum…

[notin]

He had to do that stuff, desperately.

 

So says Camp Dombo…

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

June 5/21 on Realistic Look Part 2 was the day we got into the discussion about this. You suggested it could be a good idea to trade Barnes even if we were in contention.

 

I was complicit. But I suspected Bloom would pull the trigger, most likely if he didn't think Barnes would re-sign.

 

Of course it doesn't make sense for contenders to deal closers mid-season... but that's exactly what the Rays did at the deadline, and even the Mariners. By the way, Seattle's players were outraged, which they should be...

[notin]

I was complicit. But I suspected Bloom would pull the trigger, most likely if he didn't think Barnes would re-sign.

 

Of course it doesn't make sense for contenders to deal closers mid-season... but that's exactly what the Rays did at the deadline, and even the Mariners. By the way, Seattle's players were outraged, which they should be...

 

Why?

 

The team dealt an oft-injured closer in the midst of a career year and then later acquired a much better one…

[dgalehouse]

June 5/21 on Realistic Look Part 2 was the day we got into the discussion about this. You suggested it could be a good idea to trade Barnes even if we were in contention.

 

Busted. You can't get away with anything any more. Everything is recorded or filmed.

[harmony]

June 5/21 on Realistic Look Part 2 was the day we got into the discussion about this. You suggested it could be a good idea to trade Barnes even if we were in contention.

https://www.talksox.com/forum/threads/20000-A-Realistic-View-at-2021-Part-II?p=1390878&viewfull=1#post1390878

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Why?

 

The team dealt an oft-injured closer in the midst of a career year and then later acquired a much better one…

 

Diego Castillo? Do you really want to challenge the Rays' genius transactions department when they deem a reliever expendable in the middle of a pennant race? This is a first-place defending champ with 16 pitchers on the IL right now, and a bullpen featuring only 2 of 8 from Opening Day.

[dgalehouse]

Cash does a fine job of utilizing them, but the Rays bullpen and pitching in general is like the proverbial old gray mare. Not what it used to be.

[harmony]

I was complicit. But I suspected Bloom would pull the trigger, most likely if he didn't think Barnes would re-sign.

 

Of course it doesn't make sense for contenders to deal closers mid-season... but that's exactly what the Rays did at the deadline, and even the Mariners. By the way, Seattle's players were outraged, which they should be...

The timing of the Kendall Graveman trade was unfortunate coming only hours after the Mariners' dramatic comeback win against perhaps the league's strongest club in the Houston Astros.

 

However, Rafael Montero, whom the Mariners wanted to include in the deal, had been designated for assignment and would have become a free agent the following day. That forced the hand of Seattle GM Jerry Dipoto.

 

The initial clubhouse reaction was overwhelmingly negative. If nothing else the outrage demonstrated the players' loyalty to their teammates.

 

The clubhouse has regrouped after stepping back to view Seattle's overall transactions in the deadline week. For two months of Graveman (and a year and two months of Montero), the Mariners received four years of 24-year-old switch-hitting infielder Abraham Toro, who has posted a .373/.458/.647/1.105 line in 14 games with the Mariners, and two months of veteran reliever Joe Smith, who is unscored upon in six appearances with the Mariners.

 

Seattle then acquired three years and two months of established closer Diego Castillo (and earlier supplemented its depleted rotation with rental pitcher Tyler Anderson).

 

The previously lucky Mariners were due for regression with or without Kendall Graveman. Seattle's 5-7 record since the deadline includes six one-run losses and one two-run loss. The M's have outscored opponents 48-41 over that 12-game span.

 

The Seattle clubhouse has likely recovered from the initial disappointment of the Graveman trade.

Edited August 12, 2021 by harmony

[dgalehouse]

Theo wannabe , Jed Hoyer , announced today that the Cubs have traded the Ivy from the outfield wall for a 12 year old shortstop prospect from Aruba. The kids Grandma says he is the next Xander Bogaerts. Sounds like a good deal.

[mvp 78]

Cash does a fine job of utilizing them, but the Rays bullpen and pitching in general is like the proverbial old gray mare. Not what it used to be.

 

Living in SoFL, a lot of Rays fans are saying that this year's team are frauds. We'll see.

[mvp 78]

Theo wannabe , Jed Hoyer , announced today that the Cubs have traded the Ivy from the outfield wall for a 12 year old shortstop prospect from Aruba. The kids Grandma says he is the next Xander Bogaerts. Sounds like a good deal.

 

A kid'll eat ivy too, wouldn't you?

[Kimmi]

If the prices were so crazy at the deadline, why not be sellers?

 

You are talking crazy now MVP.

[mvp 78]

You are talking crazy now MVP.

 

You think the deadline was good, but it could have been better. Think what some of these guys could have fetched on the open market.

[moonslav59]

Some Selected OPS Numbers on New Teams

 

1.167 Schwarber

.962 Rizzo

.864 Turner

.808 Bryant

.720 Gallo

.559 Baez

 

ERA

1.74 Scherzer

3.18 Gibson

(3.60 Sale)

3.86 Berrios

5.40 Kimbrel

9.00 Heaney

 

 

[mvp 78]

A disappointing day.

 

One month later, the results haven't been worth writing home about.