Has Gerrit Cole been cheating?

[bkzwhitestrican]

Cole's spin rates were more in line with his 2020-21 averages yesterday, but still slightly down. I don't know much about this stuff but I'm guessing slight variations between starts is normal, same as how velocity can vary game to game.

[moonslav59]

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2021/06/mlb-gerrit-cole-trevor-bauer-foreign-substances-spin-rate.html

[bkzwhitestrican]

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2021/06/mlb-gerrit-cole-trevor-bauer-foreign-substances-spin-rate.html

 

What should be the takeaway from this article? To me the change in the baseball is probably the single biggest reason that the offensive numbers have plunged leaguewide. I'm sure pitchers using foreign substances is contributing as well, but it's not like this is the first year that pitchers started using it. They were using them in 2019 when the league wide HR record was shattered. Getting a better grip on the ball can only help you so much, but making the ball heavier and making the seams more pitcher-friendly seem to coincide with what is happening this season.

[jacksonianmarch]

The ball was actually made a little lighter which is accounting for the higher spin rates. I agree that the sticky stuff has been going on for years. This isn’t new. But a lighter ball will seem like it’s rising compared to the heavier one and should be able to be thrown harder

[Bellhorn04]

The ball was actually made a little lighter which is accounting for the higher spin rates. I agree that the sticky stuff has been going on for years. This isn’t new. But a lighter ball will seem like it’s rising compared to the heavier one and should be able to be thrown harder

 

If it's only the new ball causing the higher spin rates, Manfred is even more of an idiot than I thought.

[Bellhorn04]

Now Jacob deGrom is under scrutiny.

 

This is another huge mess. And the fact that idiot Manfred decided to switch the baseballs this year is only adding confusion over what's going on.

[jacksonianmarch]

If it's only the new ball causing the higher spin rates, Manfred is even more of an idiot than I thought.

 

This spider tack s*** isn’t new for 2021. It’s been around for years. These pitchers have been using agents for grip for decades, heck, ever since the game was invented. Manfred decided to try and take the homers down by doctoring the ball, but he ended up adding velocity and spin to the pitchers which has taken the offense out of the game entirely. Manfred is a total stooge who has artificially destroyed a great game

[jacksonianmarch]

Now Jacob deGrom is under scrutiny.

 

This is another huge mess. And the fact that idiot Manfred decided to switch the baseballs this year is only adding confusion over what's going on.

 

And I bet he and every other pitcher is using the same s***. It’s truly an equal playing field here

[Bellhorn04]

Pete Alonso came out and pointed the finger at MLB for changing the baseballs.

 

This could really get interesting.

[notin]

And I bet he and every other pitcher is using the same s***. It’s truly an equal playing field here

 

Translation: “They caught a Yankee!”

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Translation: “They caught a Yankee!”

 

... who was never great until he joined Houston -- and man, have you seen how many feet those Astros' pitches break.

 

That last comment was unintended, until I proofread; now it's punintended.

[Bellhorn04]

I have to side with Jax on this one. I think this is a widespread issue.

[notin]

I have to side with Jax on this one. I think this is a widespread issue.

 

It is and has been since 1934 when Hall of Famer Burleigh Grimes retired, as he was the last player legally allowed to doctor the baseball. Yes, he actually had his own rules.

 

But, much like this, cheating across MLB is usually not limited to one or two teams. The Astros’ scandal took the headlines because they won, and the Sox Apple Watch scandal/Yankee bullpen phone scandal. But other teams were also accused with a lot less noise, like the Blue Jays “Man in White” sign stealing scandal.

 

Not everything we hear is true, of course. But the winners and bigger names grab more headlines...

[Bellhorn04]

Will Middlebrooks checks in on the controversy!

 

https://nypost.com/2021/06/10/will-middlebrooks-adds-395m-wrinkle-to-pete-alonso-theory/

[mvp 78]

Liam Hendricks stated today that MLB should crack down, but need to provide a universal grip substance and do a better job at maintaining baseballs.

[jacksonianmarch]

Hitters should be furious. MLB doctored the baseball to have them be lighter so they don't get their homers. The lighter ball also increases spin rate and velo, so it is both harder to make contact and harder to hit out. Now they want to take away the grip substance that allows the pitchers to control the harder thrown baseball, which now becomes a safety issue. This change wasnt needed and now rather than admitting their mistake, they are making it worse

[Bellhorn04]

Liam Hendricks stated today that MLB should crack down, but need to provide a universal grip substance and do a better job at maintaining baseballs.

 

"Universal grip substance" - yes, absolutely.

[dgalehouse]

Manfred is a weak , incompetent commissioner. He has no idea what to do about anything.

[notin]

Manfred is a weak , incompetent commissioner. He has no idea what to do about anything.

 

Ok maybe I agree more here (in reference to his pace of play post on another thread)...

[Fan_since_Boggs]

Gerrit Cole's strikeouts and spin rate dropped as he pitched for the first time since Major League Baseball's crackdown on sticky substances.

 

Cole's fastball revolutions per minute, which averaged 2,534 coming in, ranged from 2,084-2,471. His curveball dropped from 2,824 to 2,441-2,773, his slider from 2,686 to 2,334 to 2,578 and his changeup from 1,746 to 1,518 to 1,812.

 

https://www.espn.com/mlb/recap?gameId=401228144

 

Cole still has really good stuff when he isn't cheating, but he isn't going to be quite as dominant going forward.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

Cole needs a nickname and I have the perfect one, how about Gerrit "Sticky Fingers" Cole?

 

Video evidence:

 

 

 

Unless I'm mistaken, I think Cole is scheduled to pitch against the Red Sox on Sunday and the game will be on ESPN Sunday Night Baseball? I hope that is correct--the pressure will be on Sticky Fingers Cole to perform without cheating. I love how they are enforcing this rule. Keep it up, MLB.

Edited June 23, 2021 by Fan_since_Boggs

[bkzwhitestrican]

Cole needs a nickname and I have the perfect one, how about Gerrit "Sticky Fingers" Cole?

 

Video evidence:

 

 

 

Unless I'm mistaken, I think Cole is scheduled to pitch against the Red Sox on Sunday and the game will be on ESPN Sunday Night Baseball? I hope that is correct--the pressure will be on Sticky Fingers Cole to perform without cheating. I love how they are enforcing this rule. Keep it up, MLB.

 

Lol you sure you love it? Sox starters have a 6.37 ERA since June 12th (when MLB said they planned to enforce these rules).

[jacksonianmarch]

He’s such a troll. Cole last 3 starts, 21IP 6ER for a 2.57 ERA.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

Lol you sure you love it? Sox starters have a 6.37 ERA since June 12th (when MLB said they planned to enforce these rules).

Richards was a cheater, but he will hopefully be dropped from the rotation.

 

 

Cole last 3 starts, 21IP 6ER for a 2.57 ERA.

Check Sticky Fingers every inning on Sunday, the guy is a cheater. The Red Sox will send him to an early shower. Count on it!

[jacksonianmarch]

That Garret Richards guy sure seems to have adjusted well

[Bellhorn04]

That Garret Richards guy sure seems to have adjusted well

 

Think you may have missed the other posts about Richards, including the one right above yours.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

Cole will still be a really good pitcher going forward, but will he be less elite? Will he still be worth 300+ million? To be sure, the Yankees signed Cole to win a game like Sunday's loss to the Red Sox.

 

It seems like some pitchers abused the rules more than others. Some pitchers didn't bother with sticky stuff and some did. In the case of Cole, not only did he use sticky stuff, but he used it in excess, and will likely be more pedestrian without it. That's a problem, though, because the Yankees are paying him over 300 million.

 

This is a little reminiscent of Jason Giambi's situation from years ago. The Yankees signed him to a lucrative contract only to learn later that his stats were inflated due to steroids, and that without steroids he wouldn't be as great.

 

Richards is a sticky stuff guy too, but at least the Red Sox can get out of the contract at the end of the season.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

Definitely worth watching:

 

I learned a few things including, (1) Cole's numbers dramatically improved when he started using the sticky stuff; and (2) Corey Kluber is another pitcher who has been directly connected to using sticky stuff. Thus, I don't know if the Yankees can expect much from Kluber this year.

[Bellhorn04]

Come to think of it, the first time I heard anything about 'spin rates' had to do with the Astros. There was talk about Verlander having a dramatic increase in his spin rate when he went from the Tigers to Houston, and there was talk about strategic use of substances. Maybe that was where the Spider Tack Revolution (pun intended) really started. And then Cole went there.

[notin]

Come to think of it, the first time I heard anything about 'spin rates' had to do with the Astros. There was talk about Verlander having a dramatic increase in his spin rate when he went from the Tigers to Houston, and there was talk about strategic use of substances. Maybe that was where the Spider Tack Revolution (pun intended) really started. And then Cole went there.

 

Fangraphs did an article on them some years ago. Back on BDC, when I used to recommend certain lesser known players I hoped the Sox would get (Hidden Gems, as I called them) one of them was Miles Mikolas, who was pitching in Japan at the time, but I liked him based on his elite spin rates.

 

Of course, their article was about spin rates on curveballs…