Don't you have to get behind them?

[cp176]

Well there have been numerous changes for sure but all seem to be positive moves hopefully leading to the same goal. Sounds to me like there have been numerous good character signings. That works for me. I'll get to know them I think. We all might be surprised.

[moonslav59]

It's hard to know, for sure, how much we got better, and better than worst can still be pretty bad, but I like what we have, this year.

 

I don't think we are a top contender, but I think we are good enough to make the last WC slot and have enough potential to put it all together and surprise people.

 

2013-like surprise? Doubtful, but who knows?

 

GO Sox!

[mvp 78]

Kiké is supposed to be a great guy to root for. We’ll see.

[Nick]

It's hard to know, for sure, how much we got better, and better than worst can still be pretty bad, but I like what we have, this year.

 

I don't think we are a top contender, but I think we are good enough to make the last WC slot and have enough potential to put it all together and surprise people.

 

2013-like surprise? Doubtful, but who knows?

 

GO Sox!

 

Question for you Moon...

 

Keep in mind Xander and Devers are two of my favorites...and let's assume majority of players are good character guys just so that's not a determining factor.

 

I get the sense Bloom is no nonsense type of a guy. That is he'll always do what's best for the organization.

 

Can you see a scenario where our left side of infield simply is not good enough defensively and Bloom will agree with that assessment?

 

If Dalbec can hit, I can like him just as well as Devers. My sense is Dalbe will always be a better defensive 3B than Devers. If Dalbec establishes himself offensively, should we trade Devers while his value is high? And also not get too depressed if Xander opts out after great offensive season? We can always find a defensive shortstop, no?

 

We also agree that we can always find a 1B if Dalbec vacates.

 

I'm looking forward to 2021 because there are millions of questions with this team. Time to sort things out.

Edited February 25, 2021 by Nick

[kenmeister]

Personally, I'm rooting for E-Rod to truly have overcome coronavirus and continue his quest for a 20 win season.

[moonslav59]

Question for you Moon...

 

Keep in mind Xander and Devers are two of my favorites...and let's assume majority of players are good character guys just so that's not a determining factor.

 

I get the sense Bloom is no nonsense type of a guy. That is he'll always do what's best for the organization.

 

Can you see a scenario where our left side of infield simply is not good enough defensively and Bloom will agree with that assessment?

 

If Dalbec can hit, I can like him just as well as Devers. My sense is Dalbe will always be a better defensive 3B than Devers. If Dalbec establishes himself offensively, should we trade Devers while his value is high? And also not get too depressed if Xander opts out after great offensive season? We can always find a defensive shortstop, no?

 

We always agree that we can always find a 1B if Dalbec vacates.

 

I'm looking forward to 2021 because there are millions of questions with this team. Time to sort things out.

 

I'm a huge fan of defense, especially at SS, but Bogey is such a great hitter, I'm fine with him staying there.

 

Devers is probably my favorite player, now that JBJ is gone. I'm always open to trading anyone, if the return is right, but Devers is about last on my trade list.

 

I still think he has shown signs he can be a plus on defense, but if he is sketchy, this year, and Dalbec does well, I could see just flipping them, but I'm basing that on the belief that Dalbec is a plus defender at 3B. I don't know that, for sure.

 

This season has a lot if intrigue.

[Bellhorn04]

Devers is probably my favorite player, now that JBJ is gone. I'm always open to trading anyone, if the return is right, but Devers is about last on my trade list.

 

That's not great news for Devers LOL

 

(Sorry man, I hope you don't mind me giving you a little heat about the 'favorite player' thing. It's all in jest.)

[moonslav59]

That's not great news for Devers LOL

 

(Sorry man, I hope you don't mind me giving you a little heat about the 'favorite player' thing. It's all in jest.)

 

JBJ did very well for us. It's not like I jinxed him.

 

I'd love to have him back- just not at the money I felt he'd make.

[kenmeister]

Am I correct that Jackie Bradley Jr. and Jake Odorizzi are still unemployed? I have to wonder if they will take low money just to stay working...

[Bellhorn04]

Am I correct that Jackie Bradley Jr. and Jake Odorizzi are still unemployed? I have to wonder if they will take low money just to stay working...

 

I think they'll both sign soon. Obviously not getting what they'd hoped, though.

[notin]

Am I correct that Jackie Bradley Jr. and Jake Odorizzi are still unemployed? I have to wonder if they will take low money just to stay working...

 

As much as I would like to see the Sox add someone like Odorizzi, at what point does signing someone like him just make trading Price look like a bad move?

 

Odorizzi might cost a $14mill AAV, but with the Sox already committing $15mill to Price, I have to wonder if simply holding on to Price (which then costs the Sox only $2 mill more) would have been the right move. Is Odorizzi going to be better than Price over the next couple seasons? If not, you're essentially paying the same thing for a lesser pitcher...

[harmony]

I think they'll both sign soon. Obviously not getting what they'd hoped, though.

And the teams that sign them won't be getting the bargains they had hoped. The parties will probably meet somewhere in the middle.

 

The demand for starting pitching certainly has not diminished.

[moonslav59]

As much as I would like to see the Sox add someone like Odorizzi, at what point does signing someone like him just make trading Price look like a bad move?

 

Odorizzi might cost a $14mill AAV, but with the Sox already committing $15mill to Price, I have to wonder if simply holding on to Price (which then costs the Sox only $2 mill more) would have been the right move. Is Odorizzi going to be better than Price over the next couple seasons? If not, you're essentially paying the same thing for a lesser pitcher...

 

Odorizzi might end up getting $10M AVV or less.

 

One could view the $15M saved from Price as getting us Odorizzi and Sawamura, or Richards & Samamura, or Ottavino & EHern.

 

I'd say it was worth it.

[Bellhorn04]

And the teams that sign them won't be getting the bargains they had hoped.

 

Or maybe they will. Some free agent signings do end up as bargains.

[Bellhorn04]

As much as I would like to see the Sox add someone like Odorizzi, at what point does signing someone like him just make trading Price look like a bad move?

 

Odorizzi might cost a $14mill AAV, but with the Sox already committing $15mill to Price, I have to wonder if simply holding on to Price (which then costs the Sox only $2 mill more) would have been the right move. Is Odorizzi going to be better than Price over the next couple seasons? If not, you're essentially paying the same thing for a lesser pitcher...

 

Not much point bringing the Price trade into the equation. Trading Price didn't just save money, but enabled the tax reset, and may have increased what we got from the Dodgers, though that's just speculation.

 

And Price is at least as much of a question mark as Odorizzi going forward.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Odorizzi might end up getting $10M AVV or less.

 

One could view the $15M saved from Price as getting us Odorizzi and Sawamura, or Richards & Samamura, or Ottavino & EHern.

 

I'd say it was worth it.

 

Also worth considering what price franchises put on assembling rosters of employees who will help unify morale, respect authority and not publicly shame the organization.

[moonslav59]

Also worth considering what price franchises put on assembling rosters of employees who will help unify morale, respect authority and not publicly shame the organization.

 

I'm not all that big on this aspect of team building, but I do think it makes a difference, most of the time.

 

Price was not a plus in this area.

 

I was glad we were able to dump half his salary- almost as happy as when we dumped most CC's salary in the first Dodger dump trade.

[harmony]

Or maybe they will. Some free agent signings do end up as bargains.

A bargain is in the eye of the beholder.

 

A $10 million annual salary might not be a bargain on Jake Odorizzi, whom ZiPS projects with a 2021 WAR of 1.8 in 24 starts. As a point of reference, ZiPS projects a 2021 WAR of 2.7 in 23 starts from James Paxton, who signed a one-year contract for $8.5 million plus incentives.

 

FanGraphs Depth Charts and Steamer narrow the gap in projected WAR but still give Paxton the edge.

[Bellhorn04]

A bargain is in the eye of the beholder.

 

A $10 million annual salary might not be a bargain on Jake Odorizzi, whom ZiPS projects with a 2021 WAR of 1.8 in 24 starts. As a point of reference, ZiPS projects a 2021 WAR of 2.7 in 23 starts from James Paxton, who signed a one-year contract for $8.5 million plus incentives.

 

FanGraphs Depth Charts and Steamer narrow the gap in projected WAR but still give Paxton the edge.

 

Well, of course, with baseball players and all their variances, you can generally only judge bargains in retrospect. Which is not quite the same as being in the eye of the beholder.

[notin]

A bargain is in the eye of the beholder.

 

A $10 million annual salary might not be a bargain on Jake Odorizzi, whom ZiPS projects with a 2021 WAR of 1.8 in 24 starts. As a point of reference, ZiPS projects a 2021 WAR of 2.7 in 23 starts from James Paxton, who signed a one-year contract for $8.5 million plus incentives.

 

FanGraphs Depth Charts and Steamer narrow the gap in projected WAR but still give Paxton the edge.

 

But how many of those incentives will Paxton reach if he has a 2.7 fWAR season?

[harmony]

But how many of those incentives will Paxton reach if he has a 2.7 fWAR season?

James Paxton will earn a $750,000 bonus for reaching 10 games and another $750,000 at 20 games (for a maximum of $10 million). The ZiPS projection is based on 23 starts.

 

Paxton joins a Seattle rotation headed by fellow lefthanders Marco Gonzales, Justus Sheffield and Yusei Kikuchi, who last year combined for 4.7 fWAR in 30 starts. The projected fifth slot goes to 26-year-old righthander Chris Flexen, a refugee from the Korean Baseball Organization. Vying for the final slot in the six-man rotation will be 25-year-old righthander Justin Dunn and 24-year-old lefthander Nick Margevicius, who last year combined for a 4.39 ERA in 17 starts (although Dunn had concerning peripherals and Margevicius was less impressive in three relief appearances). The Mariners have three starters among the Top 70 prospects at Baseball Prospectus and, if disgraced former president Kevin Mather is to be believed, righthander Logan Gilbert will be called up in April.

 

Which is more than anyone wanted to know.

[Thunder]

Also worth considering what price franchises put on assembling rosters of employees who will help unify morale, respect authority and not publicly shame the organization.

 

Eh, unifying morale is overrated

[Thunder]

James Paxton will earn a $750,000 bonus for reaching 10 games and another $750,000 at 20 games (for a maximum of $10 million). The ZiPS projection is based on 23 starts.

 

Paxton joins a Seattle rotation headed by fellow lefthanders Marco Gonzales, Justus Sheffield and Yusei Kikuchi, who last year combined for 4.7 fWAR in 30 starts. The projected fifth slot goes to 26-year-old righthander Chris Flexen, a refugee from the Korean Baseball Organization. Vying for the final slot in the six-man rotation will be 25-year-old righthander Justin Dunn and 24-year-old lefthander Nick Margevicius, who last year combined for a 4.39 ERA in 17 starts (although Dunn had concerning peripherals and Margevicius was less impressive in three relief appearances). The Mariners have three starters among the Top 70 prospects at Baseball Prospectus and, if disgraced former president Kevin Mather is to be believed, righthander Logan Gilbert will be called up in April.

 

Which is more than anyone wanted to know.

 

Lol are you sure you're a Red Sox fan? You sure love talking about those Mariners. The last time they made the playoffs I was 3

[moonslav59]

Lol are you sure you're a Red Sox fan? You sure love talking about those Mariners. The last time they made the playoffs I was 3

 

Always been a Mariner's fan.

[Thunder]

Always been a Mariner's fan.

 

I was being facetious

[harmony]

Lol are you sure you're a Red Sox fan? You sure love talking about those Mariners. The last time they made the playoffs I was 3

Seattle Mariner fan since 1995.

 

Studies the Red Sox the way a native speaker studies a second language.

 

The Red Sox had not been in the postseason in 11 seasons the year I turned 3 and soon thereafter suffered seven straight losing seasons (a dubious feat the Mariners have not accomplished in the past 30 years). Last season notwithstanding, the Red Sox have compiled better records and captured more titles than the M's over that period.

[Thunder]

Seattle Mariner fan since 1995.

 

Studies the Red Sox the way a native speaker studies a second language.

 

The Red Sox had not been in the postseason in 11 seasons the year I turned 3 and soon thereafter suffered seven straight losing seasons (a dubious feat the Mariners have not accomplished in the past 30 years). Last season notwithstanding, the Red Sox have compiled better records and captured more titles than the M's over that period.

 

Watching The Kid grow up must have been amazing

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Eh, unifying morale is overrated

 

Ya, my step-father grew up playing on a team with Whitey Ford, and good character was all they ever talked about. I didn't get it, because I grew up in a decade when the A's and Yankees kept fighting themselves and winning pennants almost every single year.

 

Nowadays, with guaranteed kajillion-dollar contracts, player attitudes may mean more than ever (see Betts, Mookie). Every contender would do well to also ensure it has some young, hungry and not-yet-rich stars in the mix...

[Thunder]

Ya, my step-father grew up playing on a team with Whitey Ford, and good character was all they ever talked about. I didn't get it, because I grew up in a decade when the A's and Yankees kept fighting themselves and winning pennants almost every single year.

 

Nowadays, with guaranteed kajillion-dollar contracts, player attitudes may mean more than ever (see Betts, Mookie). Every contender would do well to also ensure it has some young, hungry and not-yet-rich stars in the mix...

 

There's definitely a bunch of guys that are "clubhouse cancers" that you don't want to mess with, Puig being at the top of that list. I thought Sale would do that to the Sox clubhouse when we got here, but I am glad I was proved wrong

[moonslav59]

There's definitely a bunch of guys that are "clubhouse cancers" that you don't want to mess with, Puig being at the top of that list. I thought Sale would do that to the Sox clubhouse when we got here, but I am glad I was proved wrong

 

I loved what Sale did in Chicago, and it did not tear the team apart, at all.