2020-2021 Offseason Thread

[notin]

Here is some information about the prospects received by the Mets in return for Matz. Warm bodies with heartbeats.

 

https://nypost.com/2021/01/28/meet-the-three-pitching-prospects-mets-got-back-for-steven-matz/

 

Reid-Foley is in the backend of the Jays' pen. Diaz had a future value of 40 per Fangraphs prior to 2020. The equivalent Sox pitchers would be Thad Ward, Tanner Houck, Jay Groome and Brayan Bello.

 

Matz is OK, but would you give up two from Ward, Groome and Houck for him?

[moonslav59]

If the Mets are still looking to cut salary to afford Bauer, would they do this deal?

 

Familia & Crow-Armstrong for Beni

[moonslav59]

La Stella gets $19M/3 with SFG.

 

Many had him higher than Enrique.

[notin]

If the Mets are still looking to cut salary to afford Bauer, would they do this deal?

 

Familia & Crow-Armstrong for Beni

 

I think they are very high on Pete Crow-Armstrong...

[notin]

La Stella gets $19M/3 with SFG.

 

Many had him higher than Enrique.

 

More cash, but less per year. There is not a huge difference in those deals...

[Bellhorn04]

More cash, but less per year. There is not a huge difference in those deals...

 

Plus some of Enrique's money is deferred, further reducing the difference.

[moonslav59]

Plus some of Enrique's money is deferred, further reducing the difference.

 

Does that affect the lux tax number?

 

Cots has it at $7M both years on their tax table.

[Bellhorn04]

Does that affect the lux tax number?

 

Cots has it at $7M both years on their tax table.

 

I think what happens is that the contract details are sent to the Players Union bean-counters who do the calculations. So there's a delay. I noticed this with Mookie's.

 

The contract may not even be finalized yet. There's always a second announcement on MLBTR when it's finalized.

Edited January 28, 2021 by Bellhorn04

[notin]

I think what happens is that the contract details are sent to the Players Union bean-counters who do the calculations. So there's a delay. I noticed this with Mookie's.

 

The contract may not even be finalized yet. There's always a second announcement on MLBTR when it's finalized.

 

Soxprospects.com does not him on the 40 man roster yet. But they do have Ottavino, which filled it up.

 

So someone is getting DFA'd. Guesses?

 

I'll go with Springs...

[moonslav59]

Soxprospects.com does not him on the 40 man roster yet. But they do have Ottavino, which filled it up.

 

So someone is getting DFA'd. Guesses?

 

I'll go with Springs...

 

soxprospects doesn't have Hernandez or Richards listed among the 40 names.

[notin]

soxprospects doesn't have Hernandez or Richards listed among the 40 names.

 

So... Springs and Payamps? I'd go with Brice myself, but I think Bloom likes him for some reason.

 

Wilson would be a candidate if the Sox had another MiLB outfielder ahead of him. Maybe if they have faith in Duran?

[moonslav59]

So... Springs and Payamps? I'd go with Brice myself, but I think Bloom likes him for some reason.

 

Wilson would be a candidate if the Sox had another MiLB outfielder ahead of him. Maybe if they have faith in Duran?

 

One reason I want Brice out is that he has no options.

[moonslav59]

Cards re-sign Wainwright to $5M with $3M in incentives.

[moonslav59]

Joc Pederson to sign with Cubs.

 

(What he gets paid might help set Beni's trade value.)

[Bellhorn04]

Joc Pederson to sign with Cubs.

 

(What he gets paid might help set Beni's trade value.)

 

Why so keen on trading Beni at this point?

[notin]

Joc Pederson to sign with Cubs.

 

(What he gets paid might help set Beni's trade value.)

 

I think the Beni Ship has sailed...

[moonslav59]

Why so keen on trading Beni at this point?

 

I've come out against trading him, when his stock is so low, but there are three factors that indicate he might be the top candidate to be moved.

 

1) We have a LF'er who is probably better than him, in Renfroe, and although a platoon looks nice, Renfroe is not all that bad vs RHPs.

2) We have 2-3 serious needs that outweigh the value of a platooned LF'er: 2B or CF, Closer, SP. (I might even rather have Moreland than Beni.)

3) We appear to want to stay under the Tax line, and freeing up his $5M might allow us to sign 2 players like Colome & Schoop- not just one.

 

Let me ask you this: would you rather have Beni in our current OF where someone has to play CF or Schoop at 2B, Hernandez in CF and Renfroe/Chavis in LF?

 

The budget cost may be close to identical.

 

Hernandez in CF greatly improves our OF defense, and Schoop may end up hitting close to what Beni will hit in 2021.

 

Or, we sign Schoop and not Colome by keeping Beni, so Colome vs Beni? I'll take Colome.

 

This doesn't even factor in what we get back from the Beni trade, which would, in theory, make a trade a clear net plus.

 

 

Again, trading Beni when his stock is low is reason enough not to do it, and to me, it probably makes sense to at least wait until the deadline to decide, but reasons abound on why we might pull the trigger, soon.

[moonslav59]

I think the Beni Ship has sailed...

 

Well, if anybody was looking to sign Joc and lost out to the Cubs, Beni might be their "fallback."

[Bellhorn04]

I'll say it again: sign Pillar and be done with it. Kevin might be waiting to see what JBJ gets.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I just don't see that big a difference between Renfroe and Benintendi to trade one to open a spot for the other. If we're overlooking 2020's SSS and HR's .156 in 122 at bats, then there's even less regard for AB's .103 in 39 at bats. I also think if both improve and reach full potential that Beni contributes more ways to help a club.

 

Rather than give up on Beni and replace him with a more expensive Rosario, the Sox may just think it more cost effective to sign a cheap CFer and back-up LHH first baseman and platoon away at left, center, second and first.

[Bellhorn04]

I've come out against trading him, when his stock is so low, but there are three factors that indicate he might be the top candidate to be moved.

 

1) We have a LF'er who is probably better than him, in Renfroe, and although a platoon looks nice, Renfroe is not all that bad vs RHPs.

 

Strongly disagree.

 

Beni vs RHP 283/361/459 821 +108

Renfroe vs RHP 216/268/449 717 +85

 

Renfroe is terrible vs. RHP. His SLG is close to Beni's, but Beni's OBP is 93 points higher! That's not a big difference to you? (Correct me if I'm wrong, but you've always said you thought OPS inflates the value of SLG over OBP too much. I happen to agree with that.)

 

And we face RHP about 2/3 of the time, of course.

Edited January 29, 2021 by Bellhorn04

[notin]

Strongly disagree.

 

Beni vs RHP 283/361/459 821 +108

Renfroe vs RHP 216/268/449 717 +85

 

Renfroe is terrible vs. RHP. His SLG is close to Beni's, but Beni's OBP is 93 points higher! That's not a big difference to you? (Correct me if I'm wrong, but you've always said you thought OPS inflates the value of SLG over OBP too much. I happen to agree with that.)

 

And we face RHP about 2/3 of the time, of course.

 

I think SLG is a very underrated stat. I can see why many like OBP better, but SLG should be given a lot more due than the massively overused and borderline useless batting average...

[notin]

I just don't see that big a difference between Renfroe and Benintendi to trade one to open a spot for the other. If we're overlooking 2020's SSS and HR's .156 in 122 at bats, then there's even less regard for AB's .103 in 39 at bats. I also think if both improve and reach full potential that Beni contributes more ways to help a club.

 

Rather than give up on Beni and replace him with a more expensive Rosario, the Sox may just think it more cost effective to sign a cheap CFer and back-up LHH first baseman and platoon away at left, center, second and first.

 

They won't platoon at 4 positions. With only 4 bench players and one being a catcher, that's not possible...

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

They won't platoon at 4 positions. With only 4 bench players and one being a catcher, that's not possible...

 

We know Cora doesn't want to, but may have to if this is roster Bloom gives him. Hopefully, someone steps up, breaks out or arrives from Wooster before too long...

[moonslav59]

I'll say it again: sign Pillar and be done with it. Kevin might be waiting to see what JBJ gets.

 

I'm thinking since Hernadez is a big plus defender in CF and not that great at 2B, it makes more sense to sign someone like Schoop at 2B than Pillar at CF.

[moonslav59]

I just don't see that big a difference between Renfroe and Benintendi to trade one to open a spot for the other. If we're overlooking 2020's SSS and HR's .156 in 122 at bats, then there's even less regard for AB's .103 in 39 at bats. I also think if both improve and reach full potential that Beni contributes more ways to help a club.

 

Rather than give up on Beni and replace him with a more expensive Rosario, the Sox may just think it more cost effective to sign a cheap CFer and back-up LHH first baseman and platoon away at left, center, second and first.

 

I'd rather have a Beni-Renfore platoon than a Renfroe-Chavis one, but if it's at the expense of not being able to afford a pitcher and a 2B/CF'er then the choice looks more difficult.

[moonslav59]

Strongly disagree.

 

Beni vs RHP 283/361/459 821 +108

Renfroe vs RHP 216/268/449 717 +85

 

Renfroe is terrible vs. RHP. His SLG is close to Beni's, but Beni's OBP is 93 points higher! That's not a big difference to you? (Correct me if I'm wrong, but you've always said you thought OPS inflates the value of SLG over OBP too much. I happen to agree with that.)

 

And we face RHP about 2/3 of the time, of course.

 

Is that worse than having no Colome or no Schoop or Pillar?

 

Also, Chavis hits RHPs better than LHPs and better than Renfroe, or we can add a min wage platoon LF'er.

[notin]

We know Cora doesn't want to, but may have to if this is roster Bloom gives him. Hopefully, someone steps up, breaks out or arrives from Wooster before too long...

 

Well so far the roster has maybe one platoon on it. But really, as they only have 3 outfielders, the platoon is just our assumption. Right now, Verdugo is in CF and Renfroe is in right. But it is still January.

 

If the Sox sign Moreland, then a platoon would be counterproductive to a rebuild, as it would stunt any potential development from Dalbec. Might as well just demote him and let him play full time. Now if they sign Moreland as a backup/occasional starter/insurance policy, that is different.

 

And not sure where a platoon in CF comes from since, if it is not Verdugo, the Sox need two players for the position to platoon. Duran/Puello is probably not going to be the solution, especially since neither is even on the 40 man roster.

 

A platoon at 2B would require a LHH 2b. As of now, all of the Sox 2b options (Hernandez, Chavis, Arroyo, Munoz) bat right-handed.

 

And like I said, the Sox appear to be in a pitching acquisition mode, even with the MiLB signings, waiver claims and the Rule 5 draft pick. A 9 man bullpen is looking likely. This means 4 bench spots, one of which is Plawecki. Which means at most, they could do 3 platoons. And that still looks unlikely given the roster construction to date.

 

I know it is possible they sign a LHH CF and play Hernadez there vs LHP while he plays 2B vs RHP, but I think "possible" is the only word to describe that.

 

I think the Sox see a platoon in LF after getting another OF. And that is it. I don't mind the idea of a platoon in LF with Hernandez in CF and Verdugo in RF. And then 2B goes to the best in ST from Chavis, Arroyo, and Munoz for however long they na hold on to the position. But I have a feeling that 2B is already settled with Hernandez and the Sox will get an OF for either CF or RF...

[Bellhorn04]

Is that worse than having no Colome or no Schoop or Pillar?

 

Oh, I'd much prefer we sign Colome and Pillar.

[Bellhorn04]

I think SLG is a very underrated stat. I can see why many like OBP better, but SLG should be given a lot more due than the massively overused and borderline useless batting average...

 

SLG is given plenty of due, thanks to OPS.