2020-2021 Offseason Thread

[Bellhorn04]

Selling low never feels right, but I can understand why he was the chosen one.

 

The 'selling low' part might be a little overstated. Beni is a free agent after 2022, so the windows of opportunity to trade him were shrinking. And if he doesn't turn it around in 2021, the 'selling high' opportunity never comes.

[Bellhorn04]

And then there is Rick Porcello, who earned (not was projected for, actually earned) 1.7 fWAR in a 60 game season in 2020...

 

Sign the man.

[notin]

Sign the man.

 

I’d be ok with that, despite that it might bump Nick Pivetta from the rotation and I am in the minority of fans who were excited to acquire Pivetta...

[Elktonnick]

I’d be ok with that, despite that it might bump Nick Pivetta from the rotation and I am in the minority of fans who were excited to acquire Pivetta...

 

So am I. Porcello is an innings eater.

[mvp 78]

Sign the man.

 

I’ve been asking.

[harmony]

And then there is Rick Porcello, who earned (not was projected for, actually earned) 1.7 fWAR in a 60 game season in 2020...

Rick Porcello makes a ton of sense for many teams.

 

Steamer and ZiPS project Porcello with 2021 WAR of 1.7 in 28 starts and 2.0 in 27 starts:

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/players/rick-porcello/2717/stats?position=P

[mvp 78]

He throws innings. Sox will lose a pitcher or two to the IL.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Porcello to some Sox fans -- pros: never injured, innings eater, a guy we used to root for; cons: ERA over 5.00 the past two years.

 

Porcello to maybe some Sox officials -- pros: ERA under 6.00 the past two years; cons: never injured, a guy they used to root for -- so not a potential rehabbing/discovery project.

[notin]

Rick Porcello makes a ton of sense for many teams.

 

Steamer and ZiPS project Porcello with 2021 WAR of 1.7 in 28 starts and 2.0 in 27 starts:

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/players/rick-porcello/2717/stats?position=P

 

And yet he remains unsigned...

[moonslav59]

If Porcello could give us 220 IP at 5.50, would it be worth it?

 

I'm thinking, in a year with low expectations, maybe getting better than 5.50 from a mix of starters might not only help us in 2021 but also help us get a better read on guys like Pivetta, Houck, Whitlock, Seabold, Mata and maybe even someone else.

 

That being said, if Porcello could give us 200 IP at 4.50, the whole equation changes.

 

Somewhere in between is likely to occur, but he may still have a much better season in him. He's not really all that old. He's only 32 and 2 years removed from going 17-7 4.28.

 

He had a nice FIP,last year (3.33) but a horrific WHIP of over 1.5- worst of his career.

 

Yes, he's durable, but with all those innings on his arm, maybe he's burnt out. (He has just under 2,100 IP in 12 MLB seasons.)

 

If he'll take a one year deal- no harm, but I'd rather see what our young starters have.

[harmony]

And yet he remains unsigned...

That could be an indication of Rick Porcello’s high demands rather than a lack of interest by teams.

 

Or not.

[moonslav59]

Jay Bruce signs a minor league deal with Yanks.

[moonslav59]

Top FAs Still Unsigned

 

Jake Odorizzi

Justin Turner

Jackie Bradley Jr.

James Paxton

Taijuan Walker

Trevor Rosenthal

Kevin Pillar

Rick Porcello

Brett Gardner

Cole Hamels

Shane Greene

Jeremy Jeffress

 

[notin]

Top FAs Still Unsigned

 

Jake Odorizzi

Justin Turner

Jackie Bradley Jr.

James Paxton

Taijuan Walker

Trevor Rosenthal

Kevin Pillar

Rick Porcello

Brett Gardner

Cole Hamels

Shane Greene

Jeremy Jeffress

 

 

I’d love Odorizzi and Gardner, but I’d settle for Porcello and Pillar.

 

And I’ll probably get none...

[moonslav59]

I’d love Odorizzi and Gardner, but I’d settle for Porcello and Pillar.

 

And I’ll probably get none...

 

I doubt we sign any from this list.

 

I think we'll add a 2Bman or CF'er via trade.

 

Our staff is set- like it or not.

[moonslav59]

Bloom has done three things since taking over, despite receiving many criticisms.

 

1) Cut payroll by probably nearly 25%. He took over an 84 win team with about $240mill payroll and reduced it by about $50mill. This unfortunately meant cutting ties with some very popular players like Betts and Beintendi. And also not signing any big name free agents. Since the Sox signed JD Martinez after the 2017 season, the most money committed to any free agent from another team was the $14mill contract to Enrique Hernandez. (Richards could earn more if his option is exercised.)

 

2) Rebuilt the farm system. It's certainly not pre-Dombrowski top tier farm, but it is no longer bringing up the rear on the rankings of every talent evaluator. (Dombrowski should get a little nod here for drafting Dalbec, Houck, Groome and Song.)

 

3) Improved this team to a potentially credible roster in 2021. Obviously, injuries can derail any team. But this is at least not the obvious last place roster from last year, with a pitching staff littered with AAAA arms. When highlighting Bloom's lowlights, many forget he inherited an injured ace who has yet to throw an inning under his watch. Because if Sale was not out for the bulk of 2021, this team might look like an actual contender, and was certainly not a last place team in 2020...

 

Agreed, and though we all probably think the 2019 team was better than their record indicated, I'm not sure how people not only expected us to get better while cutting 25% of the budget, but toalso build up the farm.

[a700hitter]

Bloom has done three things since taking over, despite receiving many criticisms.

 

1) Cut payroll by probably nearly 25%. He took over an 84 win team with about $240mill payroll and reduced it by about $50mill. This unfortunately meant cutting ties with some very popular players like Betts and Beintendi. And also not signing any big name free agents. Since the Sox signed JD Martinez after the 2017 season, the most money committed to any free agent from another team was the $14mill contract to Enrique Hernandez. (Richards could earn more if his option is exercised.)

 

2) Rebuilt the farm system. It's certainly not pre-Dombrowski top tier farm, but it is no longer bringing up the rear on the rankings of every talent evaluator. (Dombrowski should get a little nod here for drafting Dalbec, Houck, Groome and Song.)

 

3) Improved this team to a potentially credible roster in 2021. Obviously, injuries can derail any team. But this is at least not the obvious last place roster from last year, with a pitching staff littered with AAAA arms. When highlighting Bloom's lowlights, many forget he inherited an injured ace who has yet to throw an inning under his watch. Because if Sale was not out for the bulk of 2021, this team might look like an actual contender, and was certainly not a last place team in 2020...

and a 4th thing:

 

4) lost 70% of the team’s viewership.

[a700hitter]

The Red Sox have signed catcher/outfielder Chris Herrmann to a minor league deal earlier this week, according to Isaac of @iTalkStudiosYT (Twitter link). MassLive.com’s Chris Cotillo adds that the contract includes an invitation for Herrmann to attend Boston’s big league Spring Training camp.

If I bumped into him on the street, I would not recognize him. If he told me his name, I would have no idea who he is.

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2021/02/red-sox-sign-chris-herrmann-to-minors-deal.html

[mvp 78]

I’d love Odorizzi and Gardner, but I’d settle for Porcello and Pillar.

 

And I’ll probably get none...

 

Probably.

[moonslav59]

If I bumped into him on the street, I would not recognize him. If he told me his name, I would have no idea who he is.

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2021/02/red-sox-sign-chris-herrmann-to-minors-deal.html

 

The roster is now all set!

[harmony]

If I bumped into him on the street, I would not recognize him. If he told me his name, I would have no idea who he is.

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2021/02/red-sox-sign-chris-herrmann-to-minors-deal.html

In 2018 catcher Chris Hermann posted an OPS+ of 107 in 36 games as Mike Zunino's lefthand-hitting platoon partner on the 89-win Seattle Mariners:

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/herrmch01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-

[a700hitter]

In 2018 catcher Chris Hermann posted an OPS+ of 107 in 36 games as Mike Zunino's lefthand-hitting platoon partner on the 89-win Seattle Mariners:

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/herrmch01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-

I don’t watch many Mariner games. When I watch west coast games, I rarely watch the Mariners. And their announcing team is boring beyond belief.

[dgalehouse]

Bloom has done three things since taking over, despite receiving many criticisms.

 

1) Cut payroll by probably nearly 25%. He took over an 84 win team with about $240mill payroll and reduced it by about $50mill. This unfortunately meant cutting ties with some very popular players like Betts and Beintendi. And also not signing any big name free agents. Since the Sox signed JD Martinez after the 2017 season, the most money committed to any free agent from another team was the $14mill contract to Enrique Hernandez. (Richards could earn more if his option is exercised.)

 

2) Rebuilt the farm system. It's certainly not pre-Dombrowski top tier farm, but it is no longer bringing up the rear on the rankings of every talent evaluator. (Dombrowski should get a little nod here for drafting Dalbec, Houck, Groome and Song.)

 

3) Improved this team to a potentially credible roster in 2021. Obviously, injuries can derail any team. But this is at least not the obvious last place roster from last year, with a pitching staff littered with AAAA arms. When highlighting Bloom's lowlights, many forget he inherited an injured ace who has yet to throw an inning under his watch. Because if Sale was not out for the bulk of 2021, this team might look like an actual contender, and was certainly not a last place team in 2020...

Bloom took over a team two years removed from being the best of all time. In his debut season , he finished dead last. Behind even Baltimore. The Baltimore " freakin" Orioles beat him. That is why he gets criticized. Results do matter. Your average ticket buying, NESN watching , beer drinking, hot dog eating fan wants to see winning baseball , not a bunch of excuses , payroll cuts and A - Ball prospects who " just might help " somewhere down the road.

[harmony]

The comp of James Paxton and Jake Odorizzi since the start of the 2019 season:

 

JP 34 GS, 171.0 IP, 4.16 ERA, 1.30 WHIP, 3.92 FIP, 4.02 xFIP, 11.16 K/9, 3.26 BB/9, 16-7 WL, 3.8 fWAR, 2.1 bWAR

JO 34 GS, 172.2 IP, 3.75 ERA, 1.22 WHIP, 3.58 FIP, 4.36 xFIP, 9.90 K/9, 2.92 BB/9, 15-8 WL, 4.2 fWAR, 3.4 bWAR

 

Over that period the Yankees won 136 regular-season games and the Twins 137 games. Paxton is about 17 months older than Odorizzi.

 

Steamer and ZiPS project Paxton with 2021 WAR of 2.1 in 26 starts and 2.7 in 23 starts while projecting Odorizzi with 2021 WAR of 1.7 in 28 starts and 1.8 in 24 starts.

Lefthander James Paxton reportedly is off the board, heading back to the Seattle Mariners:

 

https://www.lookoutlanding.com/2021/2/13/22282456/james-paxton-returns-to-seattle-mariners-on-one-year-deal

[moonslav59]

Bloom took over a team two years removed from being the best of all time. In his debut season , he finished dead last. Behind even Baltimore. The Baltimore " freakin" Orioles beat him. That is why he gets criticized. Results do matter. Your average ticket buying, NESN watching , beer drinking, hot dog eating fan wants to see winning baseball , not a bunch of excuses , payroll cuts and A - Ball prospects who " just might help " somewhere down the road.

 

Yes, had we kept Dave, we'd have won it all in 2020.

 

It would have been worth the price of admission just to watch Dave's face when Henry handed him last winter's spending budget and a mandate not to trade any top prospects.

 

I'm fine with criticism of Bloom and the moves he's made vs other possible moves with the budget he was handed, but let's not kid ourselves. Bloom was not handed the 2018 team. He wasn't even handed the 2019 team.

 

The farm sucked.

 

The budget was a mess, and still is a major issue to hastening the rebuild.

 

I've scratched my head at some of his moves, too, but anybody who thinks we should have a highly competitive team with the spending budget Bloom was given last winter and this winter needs to give some specifics, and I'm not talking major hindsight miracle what ifs.

 

[moonslav59]

In 2018 catcher Chris Hermann posted an OPS+ of 107 in 36 games as Mike Zunino's lefthand-hitting platoon partner on the 89-win Seattle Mariners:

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/herrmch01.shtml?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-

 

Time to trade Vaz,

[notin]

Bloom took over a team two years removed from being the best of all time. In his debut season , he finished dead last. Behind even Baltimore. The Baltimore " freakin" Orioles beat him. That is why he gets criticized. Results do matter. Your average ticket buying, NESN watching , beer drinking, hot dog eating fan wants to see winning baseball , not a bunch of excuses , payroll cuts and A - Ball prospects who " just might help " somewhere down the road.

 

Bloom took over a team that was the highest paid team in franchise history and was in third place with no hope to improve. Too many very heavy contracts tied up in aging and oft-injured players and no farm to replace anyone.

 

You do like to focus solely on team place and not on circumstances. Bloom finished last because he - unlike Dombrowski - was not allowed to spend $240 million. And had no one to trade except Betts, whose $25 mill salary limited him to a handful of teams. Dombrowski had over $300 million tied up in Price, Sale and Eovaldi. Sale hasn’t pitched since 2019, Price hasn’t been the same since 2016 and Eovaldi hasn’t pitched a full season in years. Even John Henry saw this was a mess. Why don’t you?

[mvp 78]

Not hope to improve? They were 12 months removed from winning 108 games with the same core.

[notin]

Not hope to improve? They were 12 months removed from winning 108 games with the same core.

 

How were they going to improve? They couldn’t spend any money and had no prospects to deal. Extra practice?

 

And as the Sox largely stood Pat after 2018, most of the rest of MLB spent two off-seasons closing the gap...

[Bellhorn04]

How were they going to improve? They couldn’t spend any money and had no prospects to deal. Extra practice?

 

Are we talking about improving over 2018's record, or improving over 2019's record?