2020-2021 Offseason Thread

[Swiharts Ghost]

I've never been high on Chavis, but I hate letting guys like him stick around on the 40 man roster always wondering "Is he for real?"

 

In our current situation, I'd like to see him get a somewhat long look, this year, so we can decide once and for all to DFA or keep him.

 

My guess is, he will be gone after a long look, but why not give him one more extended look?

 

Is Arroyo or Gonzalez players you just have to play everyday?

No even though there is redundant players who’s to say how the playing time shakes out .Team feels deep lol not use to it .

[moonslav59]

No even though there is redundant players who’s to say how the playing time shakes out .Team feels deep lol not use to it .

 

Deep in mediocrity, wings and prayers.

[Swiharts Ghost]

Deep in mediocrity, wings and prayers.

 

Ahh Moon this team is going to make you raise an eyebrow many times this summer in a good way .

[harmony]

Righthander Collin McHugh, whom the Red Sox released on October 28, reportedly will sign with the Tampa Bay Rays:

 

https://www.tampabay.com/sports/rays/2021/02/12/rays-near-deal-with-pitcher-collin-mchugh/

 

McHugh of course opted out of the 2020 season.

[moonslav59]

Ahh Moon this team is going to make you raise an eyebrow many times this summer in a good way .

 

I think we have a good chance to make the playoffs.

 

My point is about many of the players we have added will not be part of the long term plan or the next team to win it all.

 

Many are bridge players.

 

We are waiting to find out more about Downs, Duran, Casas, Mata and a few others.

We are waiting for the right time to spend big- hopefully next winter.

We are waiting for Sale and ERod to show they can still pitch after major health concerns.

We are going to have to decide on players with short term team control- extend them, wait it out or trade them.

 

If we are not in the playoff hunt, and perhaps even if we are, we have to think about trading next winter's free agents (unless we extend some):

 

ERod

Ottavino

Barnes

Gonzalez

 

Options for 2022 players:

Garrett

Vazquez

Perez

Andriese

 

The free agents after 2022 are tougher calls: extend, trade or wait a while longer to decide...

 

Bogaerts (opt out)

JD

Eovaldi

EHern

Plawecki

(All the option players above that were given their 2022 options)

 

These are the big choices.

 

This winter, we had limited financial resources and too many holes to fill to think we were going to go all out or even sign 1-2 big name players in a rather weak at the top FA market.

 

We added:

Garrett 1-2 yrs

Ottavino 1 yr

EHern 2

Perez 1-2 (brought back)

Renfroe (3 arbs)

Gonzalez 1

Sawamuro 2

Andriese 1-2

Cordero (3 arbs)

German

Whitlock (rule 5)

Winckowski

+3 PTBNLs

 

Last year, after the Betts> Verdugo, Downs, Wong trade and the draft, we added:

Seabold

Rosario

Potts

Wallace

 

That's a massive turnover in a short time, and we still have a hole in CF and the bottom 5-6 slots on our 40 man roster.

 

I'm actually more optimistic than many here, but more about the extended future than 2021.

 

 

[notin]

I think we have a good chance to make the playoffs.

 

My point is about many of the players we have added will not be part of the long term plan or the next team to win it all.

 

Many are bridge players.

 

We are waiting to find out more about Downs, Duran, Casas, Mata and a few others.

We are waiting for the right time to spend big- hopefully next winter.

We are waiting for Sale and ERod to show they can still pitch after major health concerns.

We are going to have to decide on players with short term team control- extend them, wait it out or trade them.

 

If we are not in the playoff hunt, and perhaps even if we are, we have to think about trading next winter's free agents (unless we extend some):

 

ERod

Ottavino

Barnes

Gonzalez

 

Options for 2022 players:

Garrett

Vazquez

Perez

Andriese

 

The free agents after 2022 are tougher calls: extend, trade or wait a while longer to decide...

 

Bogaerts (opt out)

JD

Eovaldi

EHern

Plawecki

(All the option players above that were given their 2022 options)

 

These are the big choices.

 

This winter, we had limited financial resources and too many holes to fill to think we were going to go all out or even sign 1-2 big name players in a rather weak at the top FA market.

 

We added:

Garrett 1-2 yrs

Ottavino 1 yr

EHern 2

Perez 1-2 (brought back)

Renfroe (3 arbs)

Gonzalez 1

Sawamuro 2

Andriese 1-2

Cordero (3 arbs)

German

Whitlock (rule 5)

Winckowski

+3 PTBNLs

 

Last year, after the Betts> Verdugo, Downs, Wong trade and the draft, we added:

Seabold

Rosario

Potts

Wallace

 

That's a massive turnover in a short time, and we still have a hole in CF and the bottom 5-6 slots on our 40 man roster.

 

I'm actually more optimistic than many here, but more about the extended future than 2021.

 

 

 

Bloom has done three things since taking over, despite receiving many criticisms.

 

1) Cut payroll by probably nearly 25%. He took over an 84 win team with about $240mill payroll and reduced it by about $50mill. This unfortunately meant cutting ties with some very popular players like Betts and Beintendi. And also not signing any big name free agents. Since the Sox signed JD Martinez after the 2017 season, the most money committed to any free agent from another team was the $14mill contract to Enrique Hernandez. (Richards could earn more if his option is exercised.)

 

2) Rebuilt the farm system. It's certainly not pre-Dombrowski top tier farm, but it is no longer bringing up the rear on the rankings of every talent evaluator. (Dombrowski should get a little nod here for drafting Dalbec, Houck, Groome and Song.)

 

3) Improved this team to a potentially credible roster in 2021. Obviously, injuries can derail any team. But this is at least not the obvious last place roster from last year, with a pitching staff littered with AAAA arms. When highlighting Bloom's lowlights, many forget he inherited an injured ace who has yet to throw an inning under his watch. Because if Sale was not out for the bulk of 2021, this team might look like an actual contender, and was certainly not a last place team in 2020...

[Bellhorn04]

Bloom is doing what he was brought here to do.

 

Like many others, I just hope the 2021 team is 'watchable', as we like to put it. If it isn't, it could be an ugly year, with NESN ratings continuing to slide, which would surely be a source of consternation to JH and TW.

[notin]

Bloom is doing what he was brought here to do.

 

Like many others, I just hope the 2021 team is 'watchable', as we like to put it. If it isn't, it could be an ugly year, with NESN ratings continuing to slide, which would surely be a source of consternation to JH and TW.

 

Then they need to let the man spend.

 

I'd still like to see this team make some moves more related to 2022 than 2021, like signing Odorizzi.

 

And maybe getting a LF, even if to platoon with Renfroe. I can live with Cordero in CF and Verdugo in RF. That alignment make more sense at Fenway...

[Bellhorn04]

I would have liked Beni and Renfroe in left, Pillar in center and Verdugo in right. And maybe a Dalbec/Moreland platoon at first.

 

But Bloom doesn't seem to give a damn about what I like.

[notin]

I would have liked Beni and Renfroe in left, Pillar in center and Verdugo in right. And maybe a Dalbec/Moreland platoon at first.

 

But Bloom doesn't seem to give a damn about what I like.

 

He can be a prick that way. Not like he cannot just come here and take our suggestions.

 

(And I still think Pillar is in play.)

[mvp 78]

He can be a prick that way. Not like he cannot just come here and take our suggestions.

 

(And I still think Pillar is in play.)

 

Even with the Marwin signing?

[notin]

Even with the Marwin signing?

 

Yes.

 

If they go with 4 bench players, we can assume 3 spots go to Plawecki, Marwin and Arroyo. Richt now, Chavis appears to have that 4th spot. But it could go to someone like Pillar or another outfielder, as Chavis has options.

 

Now of course, signing Pillar could have greater implications, like putting him in CF as the starter with Cordero/Renfroe platooning in LF and Verdugo in RF. But that kind of thing is up to Cora and does not change whether or not Pillar is in play.

 

Of course, if they use a 9 man bullpen, then he is not in play...

[mvp 78]

Yes.

 

If they go with 4 bench players, we can assume 3 spots go to Plawecki, Marwin and Arroyo. Richt now, Chavis appears to have that 4th spot. But it could go to someone like Pillar or another outfielder, as Chavis has options.

 

Now of course, signing Pillar could have greater implications, like putting him in CF as the starter with Cordero/Renfroe platooning in LF and Verdugo in RF. But that kind of thing is up to Cora and does not change whether or not Pillar is in play.

 

Of course, if they use a 9 man bullpen, then he is not in play...

 

To me, it just seems that Chavis is redundant with Marwin on the roster. They still need some sort of defensive minded CF, which neither person is.

[notin]

To me, it just seems that Chavis is redundant with Marwin on the roster. They still need some sort of defensive minded CF, which neither person is.

 

Exactly. Which is why Pillar might still be in play...

[mvp 78]

Exactly. Which is why Pillar might still be in play...

 

@_HaloLife

Top 10 Defensive fWAR Centerfielders (since 2013)

1. Kevin Kiermaier

2. Billy Hamilton

3. Lorenzo Cain

4. Leonys Martin

5. JUAN LAGARES

6. Jackie Bradley Jr.

7. Jarrod Dyson

8. Kevin Pillar

9. Byron Buxton

10 Ender Inciarte

 

Hamilton can't hit at all. Dyson is too long in the tooth. JBJ is too expensive. Pillar is the only guy who makes sense.

[notin]

@_HaloLife

Top 10 Defensive fWAR Centerfielders (since 2013)

1. Kevin Kiermaier

2. Billy Hamilton

3. Lorenzo Cain

4. Leonys Martin

5. JUAN LAGARES

6. Jackie Bradley Jr.

7. Jarrod Dyson

8. Kevin Pillar

9. Byron Buxton

10 Ender Inciarte

 

Hamilton can't hit at all. Dyson is too long in the tooth. JBJ is too expensive. Pillar is the only guy who makes sense.

 

I agree.

 

Unless the Sox think of Kike Hernandez as their defensive-minded backup CF...

[mvp 78]

I agree.

 

Unless the Sox think of Kike Hernandez as their defensive-minded backup CF...

 

And if that's the case, they just piecemeal 2b together with Arroyo/Marwin/Chavis/et al and see who wins the job.

[notin]

And if that's the case, they just piecemeal 2b together with Arroyo/Marwin/Chavis/et al and see who wins the job.

 

If that is the case, maybe Moreland is still in play. (I have more serious doubts and I think Pillar makes more sense than Moreland right now.)

 

I think we all hope for more stability - and that may happen in time. But I would not be surprised if Pillar was still in play and Chavis was earmarked to start the season in Worcester...

[moonslav59]

I agree.

 

Unless the Sox think of Kike Hernandez as their defensive-minded backup CF...

 

EHern has pretty good defensive numbers in CF. I'm thinking he's even be better than Pillar.

 

If you look at the list of available 2Bmen (via trade), I think we can make it work.

[moonslav59]

And if that's the case, they just piecemeal 2b together with Arroyo/Marwin/Chavis/et al and see who wins the job.

 

To me, that's the best plan- other than trading for a 1 year 2Bman who doesn't cost much.

[notin]

C: Vazquez

1B: Dalbec (Gonzalez)

2B: E Hernandez

3B: Devers

LF: Corey Dickerson / Renfroe

CF: Cordero

RF: Verdugo

DH: Martinez

 

BN: Plawecki, Arroyo (plus aforementioned Gonzalez and Renfroe/Dickerson)

[moonslav59]

c: Vazquez

1b: Dalbec (gonzalez)

2b: E hernandez

3b: Devers

ss: Bogaerts

lf: Corey dickerson / renfroe

cf: Cordero

rf: Verdugo

dh: Martinez

 

bn: Plawecki, arroyo (plus aforementioned gonzalez and renfroe/dickerson)

 

ftfy

[Kimmi]

I would have liked Beni and Renfroe in left, Pillar in center and Verdugo in right. And maybe a Dalbec/Moreland platoon at first.

 

But Bloom doesn't seem to give a damn about what I like.

 

I would have liked that too. I am really not happy about Beni being traded. Who knows, maybe Cordero will pleasantly surprise us.

 

However, we still need another OFer.

[mvp 78]

I was never a proponent of trading Beni, but here we are.

[moonslav59]

I was never a proponent of trading Beni, but here we are.

 

Selling low never feels right, but I can understand why he was the chosen one.

[moonslav59]

Cubs sign Arrieta for $6M/1.

 

Asdrubal Cabrera to AZ for $1.75M + incentives up to $1.05M

 

Rays close to signing Rich Hill.

Edited February 13, 2021 by moonslav59

[a700hitter]

Tampa swapped out Snell and Morton for Wacha, Archer and Hill. We can overtake them.

[Swiharts Ghost]

Tampa swapped out Snell and Morton for Wacha, Archer and Hill. We can overtake them.

 

Can we go over by 7 million for 1 year of Paxson.

[harmony]

Can we go over by 7 million for 1 year of Paxson.

The comp of James Paxton and Jake Odorizzi since the start of the 2019 season:

 

JP 34 GS, 171.0 IP, 4.16 ERA, 1.30 WHIP, 3.92 FIP, 4.02 xFIP, 11.16 K/9, 3.26 BB/9, 16-7 WL, 3.8 fWAR, 2.1 bWAR

JO 34 GS, 172.2 IP, 3.75 ERA, 1.22 WHIP, 3.58 FIP, 4.36 xFIP, 9.90 K/9, 2.92 BB/9, 15-8 WL, 4.2 fWAR, 3.4 bWAR

 

Over that period the Yankees won 136 regular-season games and the Twins 137 games. Paxton is about 17 months older than Odorizzi.

 

Steamer and ZiPS project Paxton with 2021 WAR of 2.1 in 26 starts and 2.7 in 23 starts while projecting Odorizzi with 2021 WAR of 1.7 in 28 starts and 1.8 in 24 starts.

Edited February 13, 2021 by harmony

[notin]

The comp of James Paxton and Jake Odorizzi since the start of the 2019 season:

 

JP 34 GS, 171.0 IP, 4.16 ERA, 1.30 WHIP, 3.92 FIP, 4.02 xFIP, 11.16 K/9, 3.26 BB/9, 16-7 WL, 3.8 fWAR, 2.1 bWAR

JO 34 GS, 172.2 IP, 3.75 ERA, 1.22 WHIP, 3.58 FIP, 4.36 xFIP, 9.90 K/9, 2.92 BB/9, 15-8 WL, 4.2 fWAR, 3.4 bWAR

 

Over that period the Yankees won 136 regular-season games and the Twins 137 games. Paxton is about 17 months older than Odorizzi.

 

Steamer and ZiPS project Paxton with 2021 WAR of 2.1 in 26 starts and 2.7 in 23 starts while projecting Odorizzi with 2021 WAR of 1.7 in 28 starts and 1.8 in 24 starts.

 

And then there is Rick Porcello, who earned (not was projected for, actually earned) 1.7 fWAR in a 60 game season in 2020...