A Realistic View at 2021: Part I

[oldtimer]

It's hard to know for sure, if Cordero is better than Duran on defense, but I'd guess yes, at this point in their development.

 

If you watched today, Devers had his problems as did Arauz. Very poor defense. At least Pivetta looked good on the mound.

[Swiharts Ghost]

If you watched today, Devers had his problems as did Arauz. Very poor defense. At least Pivetta looked good on the mound.

 

Devers hurts the team at 3b he’s an absolute butcher at 3b its time to pull the plug soon If there’s no improvement and plan for his role as DH .I do like what Pivetta did today and Munoz always seems to surprise me ! Hall has to be a DFA candidate not much there ,Thad looked ok up until Arauz butchered an absolute can of corn play .I still see the depth on this team but man I’m getting depressed at what Rafy has become at the hot corner ...we really need to see improvement soon from this teams Defense as a whole way too many reutine plays are just terrible pitcher killing errors .

Edited March 9, 2021 by Swiharts Ghost

[moonslav59]

Devers hurts the team at 3b he’s an absolute butcher at 3b its time to pull the plug have him go down or use him as DH sharing duties with JDM .Devers is my favorite player and it kills me to say this .I loved what I saw from Pivetta ,Ward he got absolutely screwed by Arauz and squeezed .today .Hall should be DFA Arauz is terrible and also DFA candidate .

 

Devers go down, as in demote to AAA? Sometimes you crack me up. Other times, I scratch my head.

 

Arauz gets 2 rbi, and you choose this game to decide to DFA him, too?

 

Pivetta could be the dark horse that gives us just enough to get over the top and make the playoffs. (I like his chances better than Perez or Houck for 2021.)

 

Hall is not on the 40 man roster, so DFA'ing him doesn't matter.

[mvp 78]

DFA Devers over bad defense in Spring Training!

[Swiharts Ghost]

Devers go down, as in demote to AAA? Sometimes you crack me up. Other times, I scratch my head.

 

Arauz gets 2 rbi, and you choose this game to decide to DFA him, too?

 

Pivetta could be the dark horse that gives us just enough to get over the top and make the playoffs. (I like his chances better than Perez or Houck for 2021.)

 

Hall is not on the 40 man roster, so DFA'ing him doesn't matter.

Moon two things Devers is terrible fielding 3b this is not some big hidden secret next Arauz hit was nice sure but butchering that can of corn was horrific .I am sick of trying to explain just how demoralized a pitcher gets when these errors happen Moon it has been an enormous sample size and the jury is back Devers is a BUTCHER .I love the player he’s a great human being but He’s a DH .Arauz at best is AAAA player .

Edited March 10, 2021 by Swiharts Ghost

[mvp 78]

Moon two things Devers is terrible fielding 3b this is not some big hidden secret next Arauz hit was nice sure but butchering that can of corn was horrific .I am sick of trying to explain just how demoralized a pitcher gets when these errors happen Moon it has been an enormous sample size and the jury is back Devers is a BUTCHER .I love the player he’s a great human being but He’s a DH .

 

So why did they never give JD a 1b mitt?

[Swiharts Ghost]

So why did they never give JD a 1b mitt?

 

Are you asking me ? JDM has about a good a lateral movement asPhilip Rivers ?

Edited March 9, 2021 by Swiharts Ghost

[a700hitter]

Devers go down, as in demote to AAA? Sometimes you crack me up. Other times, I scratch my head.

 

Arauz gets 2 rbi, and you choose this game to decide to DFA him, too?

 

Pivetta could be the dark horse that gives us just enough to get over the top and make the playoffs. (I like his chances better than Perez or Houck for 2021.)

 

Hall is not on the 40 man roster, so DFA'ing him doesn't matter.

Pivetta did not look bad today.

[Swiharts Ghost]

Pivetta did not look bad today.

 

He looked very good to me too.

[Noles_1335]

Sorry fella’s I’m with Ghost on this one... I’ve said it before that Devers isn’t the cornerstone player to build around! His D isn’t good enough to give him the big contract he’s going to demand going forward! It’s getting crunch time to make the move to 1st... wasn’t Dalbec the defensive Minor league player of the year in our organization! We should be giving him a few looks at 3rd before it’s too late! Good ahead old timers, light us up for our criticism of RD!

[moonslav59]

Moon two things Devers is terrible fielding 3b this is not some big hidden secret next Arauz hit was nice sure but butchering that can of corn was horrific .I am sick of trying to explain just how demoralized a pitcher gets when these errors happen Moon it has been an enormous sample size and the jury is back Devers is a BUTCHER .I love the player he’s a great human being but He’s a DH .Arauz at best is AAAA player .

 

Take another look at the "enormous sample size" and remember that Devers was called up very young and spent his whole minor league career playing in leagues where he was the youngest player.

 

UZR/150

-11.5 in just 508 innings his first year at 20 freaking years old!

-5.2 in his first full season at age 21 and showing real progress.

+2.4 at age 22. YES, he went plus by age 22.

 

Then, in the messed up COVID season of 2020, where he played just 475 innings at age 23, he regressed to -10.6.

 

Overall, he's at -3.8.

 

It was at -0.9 from 2018-2019 in 2370 innings, but go ahead and count his last 475 sample size as enormous.

 

I, for one, am thinking a guy who just turned 24 deserves some slack and the chance to show he can continue the improvement he was showing before last year's cluster f__k season.

 

He's got plus range and a strong arm.

 

He needs to improve his accuracy and footwork.

 

He's 24.

 

[Nick]

Take another look at the "enormous sample size" and remember that Devers was called up very young and spent his whole minor league career playing in leagues where he was the youngest player.

 

UZR/150

-11.5 in just 508 innings his first year at 20 freaking years old!

-5.2 in his first full season at age 21 and showing real progress.

+2.4 at age 22. YES, he went plus by age 22.

 

Then, in the messed up COVID season of 2020, where he played just 475 innings at age 23, he regressed to -10.6.

 

Overall, he's at -3.8.

 

It was at -0.9 from 2018-2019 in 2370 innings, but go ahead and count his last 475 sample size as enormous.

 

I, for one, am thinking a guy who just turned 24 deserves some slack and the chance to show he can continue the improvement he was showing before last year's cluster f__k season.

 

He's got plus range and a strong arm.

 

He needs to improve his accuracy and footwork.

 

He's 24.

 

 

Question is if we are a better defensive team with Dalbec at 3B and Devers at 1B. Devers will make money hitting not for his defensive prowess. Cora has already stated that we'll see Dalbec at 3B at some point. Why not listen to our manager sometimes? He has also stated Hernandez will play everyday and not at 2B all the time. Looks to me like Cora will move him to CF from time to time.

 

Cora has also stated that right field is much more difficult to play than center field at Fenway. To me Verdugo is our right fielder ultimately.

Edited March 10, 2021 by Nick

[moonslav59]

Question is if we are a better defensive team with Dalbec at 3B and Devers at 1B. Devers will make money hitting not for his defensive prowess. Cora has already stated that we'll see Dalbec at 3B at some point. Why not listen to our manager sometimes? He has also stated Hernandez will play everyday and not at 2B all the time. Looks to me like Cora will move him to CF from time to time.

 

Cora has also stated that right field is much more difficult to play than center field at Fenway. To me Verdugo is our right fielder ultimately.

 

I would not be surprised if Dalbec is the better defensive 3B, right now, or that Devers could become a plus 1Bman faster and easier than a plus 3Bman, but I think Devers deserves at least another year to show what he can do at 3B. (He's younger than Dalbec.) Like, is there a chance we win it all, this year, anyway, and swapping these two ruins those chances?

 

Let's find out, once and for all, if Devers can play 3B.

 

I'm already on record as saying Verdugo belongs in RF, so I'm 100% with you, there. I'm fine with EHern & Cordero playing CF, with Cordero playing some in LF, too, if he proves he belongs.

 

I love Cora. I once called him the Sox best manager of all time, so yes, I trust his opinion more than my own.

[jacksonianmarch]

Plus range? Are we serious? Devers is going to size out of the position and is not that good defensively already. Devers is what he is. Value is based on the bat, not glove. If Dalbec is the better defender, it might be time for Raffy to move across the diamond a la Vlad Jr

[Swiharts Ghost]

I would not be surprised if Dalbec is the better defensive 3B, right now, or that Devers could become a plus 1Bman faster and easier than a plus 3Bman, but I think Devers deserves at least another year to show what he can do at 3B. (He's younger than Dalbec.) Like, is there a chance we win it all, this year, anyway, and swapping these two ruins those chances?

 

Let's find out, once and for all, if Devers can play 3B.

 

I'm already on record as saying Verdugo belongs in RF, so I'm 100% with you, there. I'm fine with EHern & Cordero playing CF, with Cordero playing some in LF, too, if he proves he belongs.

 

I love Cora. I once called him the Sox best manager of all time, so yes, I trust his opinion more than my own.[/quote .How long do we honestly think Chaim gives Rafy ? A month ? 2 months ? .Chaim didn’t draft him he’s looking at the entire picture and must evaluate this player like any other .I give Rafy 2 months to prove himself then ? Well it gets interesting.

Edited March 10, 2021 by Swiharts Ghost

[Swiharts Ghost]

I would not be surprised if Dalbec is the better defensive 3B, right now, or that Devers could become a plus 1Bman faster and easier than a plus 3Bman, but I think Devers deserves at least another year to show what he can do at 3B. (He's younger than Dalbec.) Like, is there a chance we win it all, this year, anyway, and swapping these two ruins those chances?

 

Let's find out, once and for all, if Devers can play 3B.

 

I'm already on record as saying Verdugo belongs in RF, so I'm 100% with you, there. I'm fine with EHern & Cordero playing CF, with Cordero playing some in LF, too, if he proves he belongs.

 

I love Cora. I once called him the Sox best manager of all time, so yes, I trust his opinion more than my own.

 

I see Chaim giving Devers two months and making a change .I hope Devers improves but I’m very skeptical.and I’m sure Chaim is about as skeptical.

[jad]

Yeah, definitely give up on Devers because as all the moves this offense have shown, defense is key. Well, that and pitching, of course. And ... well, not spending anything.

[moonslav59]

Plus range? Are we serious? Devers is going to size out of the position and is not that good defensively already. Devers is what he is. Value is based on the bat, not glove. If Dalbec is the better defender, it might be time for Raffy to move across the diamond a la Vlad Jr

 

Serious as a heart attack, jacko, and the numbers back me up.

 

His low UZR/150 is fueled totally by his errors and low DPs- mostly due to throwing.

 

Fangraphs career numbers:

 

UZR/150

+6.5 Range (league avg in 2020: 0.0)

-15.4 Errors (mostly on throws)- league avg in 2020: 5.6

-3.0 DPs (my guess is throwing badly)- league avg in 2020: 0.0

 

Inside Edge

2.9% of remote plays

19.0% unlikely plays

55.4% of even plays

74.5 % of likely plays

93.5% of routine plays

 

I'll compare Devers to someone you actually might know something about- Kris Bryant (#25 out of 51) and Justin Turner (#26 out of the top 51 3Bmen in innings played since 2016):

 

Bryant/Turner

UZR/150

+0.7/-0.1 Range

+0.6/+3.8 Errors

+0.1/-2.7 DPs

 

Inside Edge

0.0/ 2.0% remote

11.5/ 16.1% unlikely

49.3/ 57.4% even

70.8/ 83.3% likely

95.2/ 97.1% routine

 

Devers holds his own on remote, unlikely and even plays. He botches easy ones and throws poorly.

 

Plus, you do realize he just turned 24. Dalbec was in the minors at that age.

 

Edited March 10, 2021 by moonslav59

[moonslav59]

[/quote .How long do we honestly think Chaim gives Rafy ? A month ? 2 months ? .Chaim didn’t draft him he’s looking at the entire picture and must evaluate this player like any other .I give Rafy 2 months to prove himself then ? Well it gets interesting.

 

He gets a full year, unless he totally sucks, this year.

 

Dalbec will get some time at 3B, so we can see how he looks, too.

 

If JD struggles, it might be easier to play Devers at DH, some, but he's not playing 1B, this year.

 

From 2019-2020, Devers places 26th out of 37 3Bmen in UZR/150 with 500+ innings at 3B (-1.3).

From 2017-2018, Devers placed 40th out of 46 3Bmen in UZR/150 with 500+ innings at 3B (-7.2).

 

While that certainly is not great, when you look at his age and progress, he deserves a longer look.

 

Again, if there ever was a Sox season for giving players another look, it would be 2021.

[moonslav59]

I see Chaim giving Devers two months and making a change .I hope Devers improves but I’m very skeptical.and I’m sure Chaim is about as skeptical.

 

It's most likely Cora's call.

[mvp 78]

I see Chaim giving Devers two months and making a change .I hope Devers improves but I’m very skeptical.and I’m sure Chaim is about as skeptical.

 

I don't think Chaim sees Devers' defense as keeping us from the playoffs. We're on the outside looking in right now. I think Chaim's plan is to watch Devers this year and move him to DH/1B next offseason if there isn't improvement.

 

This team is NOT a WS contender. Moving a "butcher" off the position doesn't fix the larger issues with this roster.

[Nick]

He gets a full year, unless he totally sucks, this year.

 

Dalbec will get some time at 3B, so we can see how he looks, too.

 

If JD struggles, it might be easier to play Devers at DH, some, but he's not playing 1B, this year.

 

From 2019-2020, Devers places 26th out of 37 3Bmen in UZR/150 with 500+ innings at 3B (-1.3).

From 2017-2018, Devers placed 40th out of 46 3Bmen in UZR/150 with 500+ innings at 3B (-7.2).

 

While that certainly is not great, when you look at his age and progress, he deserves a longer look.

 

Again, if there ever was a Sox season for giving players another look, it would be 2021.

 

I'm not sure it's so much as Devers proving himself as much as going up to 30,000 ft and determining okay who is better 3B?

 

I can work hard every day and work on my putting game. I can become better at reading, etc. But I will never be as good as my buddy who just has the 'touch'. It doesn't make me a bad putter, just not as good as my buddy. I don't have that magical 'touch'. Maybe Dalbec has better 'touch'. MAYBE.

[mvp 78]

Serious as a heart attack, jacko, and the numbers back me up.

 

His low UZR/150 is fueled totally by his errors and low DPs- mostly due to throwing.

 

Fangraphs career numbers:

 

UZR/150

+6.5 Range (league avg in 2020: 0.0)

-15.4 Errors (mostly on throws)- league avg in 2020: 5.6

-3.0 DPs (my guess is throwing badly)- league avg in 2020: 0.0

 

Inside Edge

2.9% of remote plays

19.0% unlikely plays

55.4% of even plays

74.5 % of likely plays

93.5% of routine plays

 

I'll compare Devers to someone you actually might know something about- Kris Bryant (#25 out of 51) and Justin Turner (#26 out of the top 51 3Bmen in innings played since 2016):

 

Bryant/Turner

UZR/150

+0.7/-0.1 Range

+0.6/+3.8 Errors

+0.1/-2.7 DPs

 

Inside Edge

0.0/ 2.0% remote

11.5/ 16.1% unlikely

49.3/ 57.4% even

70.8/ 83.3% likely

95.2/ 97.1% routine

 

Devers holds his own on remote, unlikely and even plays. He botches easy ones and throws poorly.

 

Plus, you do realize he just turned 24. Dalbec was in the minors at that age.

 

 

It's always been his throwing, not his range. Maybe it's a mental block? Maybe it's him not setting his feet?

[mvp 78]

I'm not sure it's so much as Devers proving himself as much as going up to 30,000 ft and determining okay who is better 3B?

 

I can work hard every day and work on my putting game. I can become better at reading, etc. But I will never be as good as my buddy who just has the 'touch'. It doesn't make me a bad putter, just not as good as my buddy. I don't have that magical 'touch'. Maybe Dalbec has better 'touch'. MAYBE.

 

If Dalbec was a vastly better defender, they would have kept him at 3b. The truth is, Dalbec is just an average defender at best. You're not going to move Devers off position for that defensive profile.

[notin]

If Dalbec was a vastly better defender, they would have kept him at 3b. The truth is, Dalbec is just an average defender at best. You're not going to move Devers off position for that defensive profile.

 

In theory, if Dalbec was average and Devers was below average, why not? An upgrade is an upgrade...

[mvp 78]

In theory, if Dalbec was average and Devers was below average, why not? An upgrade is an upgrade...

 

Because if Devers got his throwing issues fixed, he'd be better than Dalbec. Maybe easier to fix that than shuffle the lineup all around.

[Nick]

If Dalbec was a vastly better defender, they would have kept him at 3b. The truth is, Dalbec is just an average defender at best. You're not going to move Devers off position for that defensive profile.

 

Good to know......

[jad]

And if there are fans who follow the RS specifically because they enjoy watching Mookie, JBJ, Beni, Devers or anyone else? Screw them. This is the Tampa Way.

[Bellhorn04]

And if there are fans who follow the RS specifically because they enjoy watching Mookie, JBJ, Beni, Devers or anyone else? Screw them. This is the Tampa Way.

 

What does that have to do with Devers's defensive issues?

[mvp 78]

What does that have to do with Devers's defensive issues?

 

I'm sorry, do you not care about the Tampa Way?