A Realistic View at 2021: Part I

[mvp 78]

Not judging by Bloom's time in Tampa. The Rays' big league roster that's been so successful the past few years wasn't built developing their own draft picks, but by constantly trading for and hoarding young, inexpensive, controllable, and ultimately expendable players. A key part of that style is to continually deal those guys while they still have value, to acquire more assets and keep pedaling the cycle. The latter pattern is atypical of most GMs, and unlike any Red Sox GM in modern history.

 

Bloom wasn't calling the shots in Tampa though.

[moonslav59]

I think we assume that his style is that way, but we won't really know for a few years.

 

I think Theo did the best job at building a strong farm system while staying in contention. If things didn't fall apart for him in 2011, maybe he would have been a part of another Sox run.

 

Theo was a great one, for sure, but he started getting away from focusing on the farm as a top priority towards the end of his time with Boston (same with the Cubs).

 

While he did draft Mookie his last year here (along with a few others- see below) , these were the top prospects he left for Ben, according to soxprospects.com:

 

1. Middy

2. Kalish

3. Ranaudo

4. Bogey

5. Iggy

6. Lava

7. Barnes

8. Brentz

9. Jacobs

10. Swihart

11. Coyle

12. Cecchini

13. Weiland

14. Doubront

15. A Wilson

16. D Britton

17. Vitek

18. Head

19. Pimental

20. Tejada

 

His drafts after 2005, despite having several comp picks didn't really measure up to the ones in 2003 and 2005.

 

Top 50 picks:

2006: Jason Place, Daniel Bard, Kris Johnson, Caleb Clay

2007: Nick Hagadone

2008: Casey Kelly, Bryan Price

2009: Reymond Price

2010: Kolbrin Vitek, Bryce Brentz, A Ranaudo

2011: Barnes, Swihart, Owens, JBJ (Betts with the 172nd pick)

 

The area he never seemed to let up in was international FA signings:

2004: Doubront

2006: Dice-K, Okajima

2008: Tazawa

2009: Bogaerts, Iglesias, Montas

2011: Margot

 

Ben got us Devers, DHern & Moncada that way.

 

[mvp 78]

Bonafides - I like this.

 

I've heard that word pronounced 3 different ways:

 

bone-uh-fIdEEs

bone-uh-fEEdess

bon-uh-fIdes

 

And they are apparently all correct?

[mvp 78]

Ben got us Devers, DHern & Moncada that way.

 

 

Ben got us sanctioned that way too.

[moonslav59]

Not judging by Bloom's time in Tampa. The Rays' big league roster that's been so successful the past few years wasn't built developing their own draft picks, but by constantly trading for and hoarding young, inexpensive, controllable, and ultimately expendable players. A key part of that style is to continually deal those guys while they still have value, to acquire more assets and keep pedaling the cycle. The latter pattern is atypical of most GMs, and unlike any Red Sox GM in modern history.

 

Exactly, in fact their draft picks, even when high ones, are not as good as several other teams did with lower picks.

 

This was true even before Bloom.

 

I used to visit the site raysprospects.com, but it ended in 2014.

 

We thought Theo was the master at acquiring comp picks, but the Rays once had 12 of the top 89 picks (2011). 10 were comp or supplemental picks. However, how many turned out great or even good?

 

2011 TBR draft:

24. Taylor Guerrieri

31. Mikie Mahtook

32. Jake Hager

38. Brandon Martin

41. Tyler Goeddel

42. Jeff Ames

52. Blake Snell

56. Kes Carter

59. Grayson Garvin

60. James Harris, Jr.

75. Granden Goetzman

89. Lenny Linsky

 

(Of course, the draft slot money was not around back then, so signability issues directed a lot of picks for richer and poorer teams.)

 

[moonslav59]

Ben got us sanctioned that way too.

 

Yes, that was a big stain on his Sox tenure, along with the Castillo IFA signing.

[moonslav59]

I've heard that word pronounced 3 different ways:

 

bone-uh-fIdEEs

bone-uh-fEEdess

bon-uh-fIdes

 

And they are apparently all correct?

 

I always pronounced it Bone-Ah- FEE- dess- not that I've verbalized the word all that often.

[jad]

I've heard that word pronounced 3 different ways:

 

bone-uh-fIdEEs

bone-uh-fEEdess

bon-uh-fIdes

 

And they are apparently all correct?

 

Probably should make some effort to say "BONE-uh-FEEE-dace". Despite the fact there are no hard and fast rules regarding the way you pronounce words or names brought in from other languages.

[notin]

Ben got us sanctioned that way too.

 

But that sanction got us Sale, so all is forgiven...

[mvp 78]

Exactly, in fact their draft picks, even when high ones, are not as good as several other teams did with lower picks.

 

This was true even before Bloom.

 

I used to visit the site raysprospects.com, but it ended in 2014.

 

We thought Theo was the master at acquiring comp picks, but the Rays once had 12 of the top 89 picks (2011). 10 were comp or supplemental picks. However, how many turned out great or even good?

 

2011 TBR draft:

24. Taylor Guerrieri

31. Mikie Mahtook

32. Jake Hager

38. Brandon Martin

41. Tyler Goeddel

42. Jeff Ames

52. Blake Snell

56. Kes Carter

59. Grayson Garvin

60. James Harris, Jr.

75. Granden Goetzman

89. Lenny Linsky

 

(Of course, the draft slot money was not around back then, so signability issues directed a lot of picks for richer and poorer teams.)

 

 

Finding Snell turns that draft from a dog to "ok"

[mvp 78]

But that sanction got us Sale, so all is forgiven...

 

That sanction is a large part of why the farm system is abysmal right now.

[mvp 78]

Probably should make some effort to say "BONE-uh-FEEE-dace". Despite the fact there are no hard and fast rules regarding the way you pronounce words or names brought in from other languages.

 

Well, it's just straight taken from Latin so there probably is a proper way to say it. I wasn't one of those aholes that took Latin in high school so I can't really comment.

[notin]

That sanction is a large part of why the farm system is abysmal right now.

 

It certainly had that effect. Although it can be tough to tell without knowing who the Sox would have signed on the International Market.

 

Who were the five signees the Sox lost?

[Bellhorn04]

It certainly had that effect. Although it can be tough to tell without knowing who the Sox would have signed on the International Market.

 

Who were the five signees the Sox lost?

 

Cesar Gonzalez P

Albert Guiamaro OF

Simon Muzziotti OF

Antonio Pinero IF

Eduardo Torrealba IF

[moonslav59]

Cesar Gonzalez P

Albert Guiamaro OF

Simon Muzziotti OF

Antonio Pinero IF

Eduardo Torrealba IF

 

We've really struck out on IFAs for quite some time, now.

 

I'm not sure we lost out on anything.

 

Quick!

 

Who is the best IFA we've signed since Moncada (March 2015)?

 

Juan Chacon (JUL '19)?

Eduardo Lopez (JUL '18)?

Daniel Flores (JUL '17 RIP)?

Gilberto Jimenez (AUG '17)?

Hector Velazquez (Feb '17)?

Bryan Mata (Jan '16)?

 

[notin]

Cesar Gonzalez P

Albert Guiamaro OF

Simon Muzziotti OF

Antonio Pinero IF

Eduardo Torrealba IF

 

I know very little about them except Muzziotti, whose been moving up in the Phillies’ system...

[moonslav59]

There are many useful players still on the market.

 

I can't wait until we acquire a few of them and have something to talk about, but the question isn't if, it is who & when.

[jad]

Well, it's just straight taken from Latin so there probably is a proper way to say it. I wasn't one of those aholes that took Latin in high school so I can't really comment.

 

But that's not realistic. Sounds and systems of sounds are not the same in different languages. (How would you 'pronounce' the tonal qualities of Eastern languages?). So the 'proper' pronunciation of a word (that makes perfect sense in the context of its home language) would be ambiguous or unintelligible in a different language which lacks those sounds or distinctions. (Obvious examples, famailiar to anyone who has taught school in the last couple of decades), how to pronounce "Nguyen" or translate into English the ending of names transliterated as -eng. (It's like the irritating habit some Angelenos have of giving 'correct' and thus almost unintelligible pronunciations of Spanish names and words--words that would not be pronounced the same way by native Hispanic speakers on the East Coast.)

[Kimmi]

I think we assume that his style is that way, but we won't really know for a few years.

 

I think Theo did the best job at building a strong farm system while staying in contention. If things didn't fall apart for him in 2011, maybe he would have been a part of another Sox run.

 

Theo is the GOAT.

 

Friedman has become a close second, though I'm not a fan of the Mookie contract one bit.

[Kimmi]

Not judging by Bloom's time in Tampa. The Rays' big league roster that's been so successful the past few years wasn't built developing their own draft picks, but by constantly trading for and hoarding young, inexpensive, controllable, and ultimately expendable players. A key part of that style is to continually deal those guys while they still have value, to acquire more assets and keep pedaling the cycle. The latter pattern is atypical of most GMs, and unlike any Red Sox GM in modern history.

 

While these players may not technically be considered part of the farm system, they are part of what I am talking about when I talk about building the farm. It's not just players that are drafted and developed within the system. I realize that the Sox are not likely to get into the habit of trading away their players while they still have value, but because of their payroll, they don't have to. That said, when the players reach free agency, if they become too expensive, I'd just as soon let them walk and hopefully pick up a draft pick. Theo was excellent at doing that.

[Bellhorn04]

Theo is the GOAT.

 

Friedman has become a close second, though I'm not a fan of the Mookie contract one bit.

 

Kimmi, I hate to say it, but that contract is a great one for the Dodgers. I just learned that because of the deferred money, Mookie's AAV throughout the contract will only be 25.55 million. That's 4.45 mill LESS than what it would have been if he agreed to the Red Sox 10 year, $300 million offer.

[Kimmi]

Kimmi, I hate to say it, but that contract is a great one for the Dodgers. I just learned that because of the deferred money, Mookie's AAV throughout the contract will only be 25.55 million. That's 4.45 mill LESS than what it would have been if he agreed to the Red Sox 10 year, $300 million offer.

 

I saw your post about this the other day. The lower AAV certainly makes things better for the Dodgers, but you're not going to convince me that this is a great contract.

[moonslav59]

I saw your post about this the other day. The lower AAV certainly makes things better for the Dodgers, but you're not going to convince me that this is a great contract.

 

I hope we are both still around when his contract ends.

 

My guess is he earns every cent (based on WAR value).

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I hope we are both still around when his contract ends.

 

My guess is he earns every cent (based on WAR value).

 

Any day now 2020 will only be a harsh memory. As far as 2021, for those hoping the Red Sox return to contention, here's one underrated factor: Boston currently boasts zero elite defense at any position on the field.

 

Remember in 2018 in the launch angle era, the Sox had the best outfield in baseball -- two Gold Glovers, and another finalist. They also had Gold Glove winners at second and first in Kinsler and Moreland (Pearce wasn't bad, either, making the greatest stretch in Sox history to end the ALDS). Behind the plate, the platoon of Leon and Vaz was a positive. Bogaerts seemed more consistent.

 

Now? Without JBJ and Mookie, the outfield is average at best. I like Verdugo in right, but according to MLB rankings he's not even as good as Clint Frazier, that pinstriped Gold Glove finalist. The current infield was easily one of the worst in baseball in 2020. Vaz has seen better days, too. Hopefully, Cora's influence will improve the D...

[moonslav59]

Any day now 2020 will only be a harsh memory. As far as 2021, for those hoping the Red Sox return to contention, here's one underrated factor: Boston currently boasts zero elite defense at any position on the field.

 

Remember in 2018 in the launch angle era, the Sox had the best outfield in baseball -- two Gold Glovers, and another finalist. They also had Gold Glove winners at second and first in Kinsler and Moreland (Pearce wasn't bad, either, making the greatest stretch in Sox history to end the ALDS). Behind the plate, the platoon of Leon and Vaz was a positive. Bogaerts seemed more consistent.

 

Now? Without JBJ and Mookie, the outfield is average at best. I like Verdugo in right, but according to MLB rankings he's not even as good as Clint Frazier, that pinstriped Gold Glove finalist. The current infield was easily one of the worst in baseball in 2020. Vaz has seen better days, too. Hopefully, Cora's influence will improve the D...

 

Our D does look pretty sad, but teams have won without it.

 

I'm hopeful we add a defensive stud in CF and Devers looks more like 2019 than 2020.

[Bellhorn04]

I hope we are both still around when his contract ends.

 

My guess is he earns every cent (based on WAR value).

 

25.55 for Mookie is virtually chump change, seriously. I feel a bit sick since I learned that he took basically less money than what was surely our opening offer of 300 million for 10 years.

[mvp 78]

25.55 for Mookie is virtually chump change, seriously. I feel a bit sick since I learned that he took basically less money than what was surely our opening offer of 300 million for 10 years.

 

Sox offer could have included deferred money as well.

[Bellhorn04]

Sox offer could have included deferred money as well.

 

Yep. Of course the Dodgers were able to play the pandemic card. The fickle finger of fate got us on this one.

[mvp 78]

Yep. Of course the Dodgers were able to play the pandemic card. The fickle finger of fate got us on this one.

 

Stop blaming the pandemic on Mookie not being in Boston. The second the Sox traded him, he was NEVER coming back.

[mvp 78]