A Realistic View at 2021: Part I

[moonslav59]

I think having Hernandez and Taylor healthy could help a lot. Brasier seems to have gotten his velocity back. There are others that have already been mentioned that should be effective next year. The bullpen needs some help, I don't deny that. I just don't think it's in as dire shape as most other people do.

 

We have 3-4 RP'ers who will likely help (75%?) and 3-4 who may help (50%?). We have 10-15 guys with very little hope (

 

We still need 6-7 additional RP'ers.

 

That's "dire."

[jacksonianmarch]

Taylor had a late rookie season where he was good, then his follow up campaign was injured and ineffective. Same with Brasier. No clue what either can bring you for next year. The Sox need a full pen rebuild. But with their rotation in shambles and the offense needing some tweaks, they shouldn’t spend on it. The pen is where guys with good stuff and poor performance or rookies with high upside but endurance or command issues should go to. Pivetta, Houck, etc. You build a pen from within and then add to it. Trying to create a pen from scratch by starting on the FA market is a really good way to flush money

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

We have 3-4 RP'ers who will likely help (75%?) and 3-4 who may help (50%?). We have 10-15 guys with very little hope (

 

We still need 6-7 additional RP'ers.

 

That's "dire."

 

I have to agree with Jax that it would be dire to spend on relievers. I'd rather see three or four new established starting pitchers added, preferably guys in their 20s. They can even all be back-of-the-rotation types, as long as they're durable and can eat innings (hopefully quality starts by pitching into the 6th freaking frame). Such a plan will instantly improve the entire existing bullpen by providing reasonable rest and more defined roles.

 

Bloom will have the opportunity to make it happen with a few mid-budget signings and change-of-scenery trades. Unless, of course, his plan is to keep stockpiling relief arms for revolving opener fun.

[moonslav59]

I have to agree with Jax that it would be dire to spend on relievers. I'd rather see three or four new established starting pitchers added, preferably guys in their 20s. They can even all be back-of-the-rotation types, as long as they're durable and can eat innings (hopefully quality starts by pitching into the 6th freaking frame). Such a plan will instantly improve the entire existing bullpen by providing reasonable rest and more defined roles.

 

Bloom will have the opportunity to make it happen with a few mid-budget signings and change-of-scenery trades. Unless, of course, his plan is to keep stockpiling relief arms for revolving opener fun.

 

Oh, I know we need starters. I was just responding to the post about the pen being not all that bad. It is bad.

 

I don't see all that many difference maker SP'ers on the market, this year, but that has always been what I consider out very top priority. Even our top2 priorities should be SP'ers.

 

I also never said we have to add RP'ers only through free agency.

 

We could trad Chavis for a RP'er.

 

We could sign Lemieu and trade Downs, or sign an OF'er and trade Duran.

 

I know RP'ers are hit or miss, but if we don't add 5-7 somehow or some way, we will not be competitive, even with 2 successful SP'er additions, IMO.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Oh, I know we need starters. I was just responding to the post about the pen being not all that bad. It is bad.

 

I don't see all that many difference maker SP'ers on the market, this year, but that has always been what I consider out very top priority. Even our top2 priorities should be SP'ers.

 

I also never said we have to add RP'ers only through free agency.

 

We could trad Chavis for a RP'er.

 

We could sign Lemieu and trade Downs, or sign an OF'er and trade Duran.

 

I know RP'ers are hit or miss, but if we don't add 5-7 somehow or some way, we will not be competitive, even with 2 successful SP'er additions, IMO.

 

Well, if we give Bloom a pass for all the "pitchers" he added this year -- just this once -- then we should consider his history in Tampa, constantly trading for and trading away relievers. There's no big free agent signings of the recent Chapman or Kimbrel contracts.

[moonslav59]

Well, if we give Bloom a pass for all the "pitchers" he added this year -- just this once -- then we should consider his history in Tampa, constantly trading for and trading away relievers. There's no big free agent signings of the recent Chapman or Kimbrel contracts.

 

He did pick up Perez and Valdez, but I expected better and more.

 

I'm not giving him a full "pass." He was thrust into a tough spot, both in terms of budget restrictions and a roster that included too many on the IL or past prime.

 

Munoz may end up being a gem as a non pitcher, and Plawecki has shined, but I expected more than 3-4 helpful additions, despite the restrictions.

[oldtimer]

He did pick up Perez and Valdez, but I expected better and more.

 

I'm not giving him a full "pass." He was thrust into a tough spot, both in terms of budget restrictions and a roster that included too many on the IL or past prime.

 

Munoz may end up being a gem as a non pitcher, and Plawecki has shined, but I expected more than 3-4 helpful additions, despite the restrictions.

 

Maybe Arroyo is moving ahead of some of our options like Chatham, Lin and even Chavis. We need improvement in a couple of field positions such as second base and the outfield. Maybe we will find those players internally and then concentrate on pitching acquisitions this winter.

[harmony]

Maybe Arroyo is moving ahead of some of our options like Chatham, Lin and even Chavis. We need improvement in a couple of field positions such as second base and the outfield. Maybe we will find those players internally and then concentrate on pitching acquisitions this winter.

Count me among fans of Christian Arroyo.

 

San Francisco drafted Arroyo (#25) in the same 2013 first round as current Seattle players J.P. Crawford (#16), Marco Gonzales (#19) and Phil Ervin (#27), none of whom was drafted by the Mariners.

 

That year the Red Sox and Mariners made forgettable first-round picks in Trey Ball (#7) and D.J. Peterson (#12), respectively.

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/draft/?year_ID=2013&draft_round=1&draft_type=junreg&query_type=year_round

 

The Yankees drafted Aaron Judge with the 32nd pick.

Edited September 14, 2020 by harmony

[moonslav59]

Maybe Arroyo is moving ahead of some of our options like Chatham, Lin and even Chavis. We need improvement in a couple of field positions such as second base and the outfield. Maybe we will find those players internally and then concentrate on pitching acquisitions this winter.

 

I almost mentioned him, but he hasn't played much.

 

Plus, moving ahead of Chavis, Lin & Chatham is no great feat.

 

Maybe Potts, Pivetta and a PTBNL or two will surprise, next year.

[notin]

I have to agree with Jax that it would be dire to spend on relievers. I'd rather see three or four new established starting pitchers added, preferably guys in their 20s. They can even all be back-of-the-rotation types, as long as they're durable and can eat innings (hopefully quality starts by pitching into the 6th freaking frame). Such a plan will instantly improve the entire existing bullpen by providing reasonable rest and more defined roles.

 

Bloom will have the opportunity to make it happen with a few mid-budget signings and change-of-scenery trades. Unless, of course, his plan is to keep stockpiling relief arms for revolving opener fun.

 

Is that counting or in addition to the two SPs Bloom already added (Pivetta and Seabold)?

[moonslav59]

Bloom's significant additions, so far:

 

Verdugo

Perez

Downs

Potts

Munoz

Plawecki

C Wong

Arroyo

Arauz

Peraza

Pivetta

Seabold

Grullon

Rosario

Mazza

Godley

Hall, Brice, Covey, Stock, Triggs, Leyer, Kickham, Tapia

PTBNL (for Pillar)

PTBNL (for Osich)

 

Drafted: Yorke, Jordan, Wu-Yelland & Drohan

 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Is that counting or in addition to the two SPs Bloom already added (Pivetta and Seabold)?

 

In addition to... we can't count on either of those guys yet. The Sox need several established MLB starting pitchers asap. Pivetta and Seabold are hopefuls, as in we hope one of them can step into the rotation in the next year or two. But I'm not against the Moreland trade, and would much rather see Bloom swing another couple where we get more potential young starters rather than potential young relievers.

[jacksonianmarch]

Expecting more is fine, but being realistic makes far more sense. While the Sox were being the doormats of the AL during a pandemic, the Sox brass were cheering the fact that they reset their Lux tax on Twitter.

 

If you aren’t given a budget, you’re left to throw s*** against the wall. A little bit stuck. When you have no farm, you’re left literally finding retreads and throwaways.

 

For a builder, having a year without minor league baseball to grow your talent is also a lost year.

[Bellhorn04]

Expecting more is fine, but being realistic makes far more sense. While the Sox were being the doormats of the AL during a pandemic, the Sox brass were cheering the fact that they reset their Lux tax on Twitter.

 

If you aren’t given a budget, you’re left to throw s*** against the wall. A little bit stuck. When you have no farm, you’re left literally finding retreads and throwaways.

 

For a builder, having a year without minor league baseball to grow your talent is also a lost year.

 

All true.

[notin]

In addition to... we can't count on either of those guys yet. The Sox need several established MLB starting pitchers asap. Pivetta and Seabold are hopefuls, as in we hope one of them can step into the rotation in the next year or two. But I'm not against the Moreland trade, and would much rather see Bloom swing another couple where we get more potential young starters rather than potential young relievers.

 

I don’t see the Red Sox adding 4 established starters next season on top of the 3 1/2 they’re expecting back. Maybe one established starter, especially since you seem to be setting the bar a bit higher for what counts as an “established starter”...

[mvp 78]

I don’t see the Red Sox adding 4 established starters next season on top of the 3 1/2 they’re expecting back. Maybe one established starter, especially since you seem to be setting the bar a bit higher for what counts as an “established starter”...

 

I'd say one established guy and maybe a few more fliers on guys who could open or be the bulk innings guy. There's a lot of work to do with the pitching staff, but I'm not sure it's fixed just through FA's.

[mvp 78]

Expecting more is fine, but being realistic makes far more sense. While the Sox were being the doormats of the AL during a pandemic, the Sox brass were cheering the fact that they reset their Lux tax on Twitter.

 

If you aren’t given a budget, you’re left to throw s*** against the wall. A little bit stuck. When you have no farm, you’re left literally finding retreads and throwaways.

 

For a builder, having a year without minor league baseball to grow your talent is also a lost year.

 

I don't believe the farm system is as bare as some people make it out to be. However, the majority of the talent will definitely not be ready for 2021. Groome, Ward, Mata and Seabold could all show something next year and maybe impact BOS in 21 or 22 at some point. Song should contribute when he comes back as well. Those 5 guys are a better group of starting prospects than they've had in a long time. (This of course doesn't mean they are all top of the rotation guys.)

[notin]

I don't believe the farm system is as bare as some people make it out to be. However, the majority of the talent will definitely not be ready for 2021. Groome, Ward, Mata and Seabold could all show something next year and maybe impact BOS in 21 or 22 at some point. Song should contribute when he comes back as well. Those 5 guys are a better group of starting prospects than they've had in a long time. (This of course doesn't mean they are all top of the rotation guys.)

 

Song won't be contributing the the MLB club as early as 2022. He'll just be starting out in the minors around that time...

[mvp 78]

Song won't be contributing the the MLB club as early as 2022. He'll just be starting out in the minors around that time...

 

If he has Spring Training in 2022, he'll be in BOS by the end of the year IMO.

[notin]

If he has Spring Training in 2022, he'll be in BOS by the end of the year IMO.

 

I'm taking the over.

 

He won't have thrown a pitch in over 2 years. Expecting MLB that quickly is a bit much, especially if he starts out slowly...

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I don’t see the Red Sox adding 4 established starters next season on top of the 3 1/2 they’re expecting back. Maybe one established starter, especially since you seem to be setting the bar a bit higher for what counts as an “established starter”...

 

"Established" to me is somebody already taking a regular turn in a starting rotation, but not as an opener (so that would rule out Boston's current dirty dozen... how could the bar be lower). Neither Pivetta or Seabold are there yet. Matthew Boyd is, but he's been brutal for the past year. He had a good first half of 2019 and was a strikeout machine, but has fallen off a rocky ledge (banned c-word) since -- leading the AL in losses, hits and home runs allowed.

 

I would still take a chance on Boyd, but not for Beni. He was a 4.5 WAR guy, a 20-20 HR-SB man, 90 RBIs... and is still young enough to do it again. I'd swap Chavis for Boyd; I don't know if the Tigers would, but I think they already missed optimizing his value when they demanded the moon at the '19 deadline.

[notin]

"Established" to me is somebody already taking a regular turn in a starting rotation, but not as an opener (so that would rule out Boston's current dirty dozen... how could the bar be lower). Neither Pivetta or Seabold are there yet. Matthew Boyd is, but he's been brutal for the past year. He had a good first half of 2019 and was a strikeout machine, but has fallen off a rocky ledge (banned c-word) since -- leading the AL in losses, hits and home runs allowed.

 

I would still take a chance on Boyd, but not for Beni. He was a 4.5 WAR guy, a 20-20 HR-SB man, 90 RBIs... and is still young enough to do it again. I'd swap Chavis for Boyd; I don't know if the Tigers would, but I think they already missed optimizing his value when they demanded the moon at the '19 deadline.

 

Pivetta started 58 games in 2017 and 2018. He started 13 in 2019 before being removed from the rotation. And this year has been a shortened nightmare for any player where even the smalelst slump ruins your numbers.

 

Like Pivetta or not, Bloom trade for him and clearly viewed him as someone he wanted. He didn't just settle and take the best offer; if he wanted more, he had a few more days before the deadline to work something else out.

 

Now, it is possible he does no view Pivetta as a starter. But I think he does, which is why he is not with the parent club yet and is being stretched out in the alternate training site.

 

I think most likely case is Bloom acquires one established starter to go with the 4 he is expecting back, acquires some other depth pitchers or (close to) MLB-ready minor leaguers, and also gets several relievers, which is where the Sox real problem is anyway. Maybe two, if the Sox (wisely?) move Eovaldi to the bullpen. Although who knows what the plan is for Darwinzon Hernandez?

 

No way he tries to get 4 established starters without a much more massive overhaul....

[notin]

"Established" to me is somebody already taking a regular turn in a starting rotation, but not as an opener (so that would rule out Boston's current dirty dozen... how could the bar be lower). Neither Pivetta or Seabold are there yet. Matthew Boyd is, but he's been brutal for the past year. He had a good first half of 2019 and was a strikeout machine, but has fallen off a rocky ledge (banned c-word) since -- leading the AL in losses, hits and home runs allowed.

 

I would still take a chance on Boyd, but not for Beni. He was a 4.5 WAR guy, a 20-20 HR-SB man, 90 RBIs... and is still young enough to do it again. I'd swap Chavis for Boyd; I don't know if the Tigers would, but I think they already missed optimizing his value when they demanded the moon at the '19 deadline.

 

I listed 3 names, but Boyd is clearly the most likely, since the Tigers have been actively trying to move him. No idea of the others (Eliezer Hernandez and Reynaldo Lopez) are available or for what price. Now, per BTV, a Chavis/Boyd swap is a massive overpay for Boston, but trades that lopsided using BTV criteria have been done before. But with Boyd entering his arbitration years, his price will drop considerably...

[oldtimer]

I would be happy to see a bit of a roster shakeup for 2021 that would make us competitive for a playoff spot (why not think positively) by bringing in some younger players and looking for some quality young starting and relief pitchers.

 

My shakeup in the infield would be to consider moving Devers to 1st (probably won't happen) and Dalbec to third. Bogaerts is our anchor at SS, Arroyo is looking like the young 2nd baseman we've needed for the last 3 years

 

My shakeup in the outfield would involve trading Beni, Keeping JBJ at center (probably not going to happen) and leaving Verdugo in RF. If JBJ goes I would give Duran an opportunity and use Chavis as the LF. I would use Munoz as backup in LF and RF and Lin as backup in CF. Holding out hope for another quality right handed hitting outfielder in place for Chavis.

 

No change at catcher

 

I would shake up the starting pitching by moving Eovaldi to a high leverage Relief role. Sale is not going anywhere but probably can't help us until June at the earliest. We have to hope E-Rod makes it back and Perez has looked like a reasonable 4th or 5th starter. We need to find at least one starter (preferrably two) from Pivetta, Houck, Mata, Seabold and Ward. . Then Bloom has to find us 2 decent quality starters. Starters aren't durable so having 6 to start with Sale returning sounds good to me.

 

Relief pitching with Eovaldi, Barnes, Hernandez, Taylor and Valdez supplemented by two quality arms would allow for competitiveness. Brice, Brewer, Brasier and Weber as alternates would be reasonable. I look to move the rest.

 

Our DH position has been very unproductive this year. Your value is indicated by your stats. My shakeup would be to trade Martinez and find a younger replacement.

 

That leaves us with the thought of what to do about Downs, Potts, Casas and Groome, all of which are knocking on the ML door. Downs in particular could be ready in 2021 and will we have a slot for him. Same for Casas in 2022.

 

It's the hard ass approach to the roster, but the management has to be willing to cut ties with unproductive players and build a team where everyone in the lineup contributes. It's not as easy as waving a magic wand, but I believe Bloom is the guy that will pursue a policy that requires performance from players

 

[mvp 78]

I'm taking the over.

 

He won't have thrown a pitch in over 2 years. Expecting MLB that quickly is a bit much, especially if he starts out slowly...

 

Like Davey Jones, I'm a believer.

[mvp 78]

That post smells like mothballs, but I'm fine with it.

[mvp 78]

No way he tries to get 4 established starters without a much more massive overhaul....

 

Even with a massive overhaul, I doubt he's the type to go with 4 "established" starters.

[mvp 78]

I would be happy to see a bit of a roster shakeup for 2021 that would make us competitive for a playoff spot (why not think positively) by bringing in some younger players and looking for some quality young starting and relief pitchers.

 

My shakeup in the infield would be to consider moving Devers to 1st (probably won't happen) and Dalbec to third. Bogaerts is our anchor at SS, Arroyo is looking like the young 2nd baseman we've needed for the last 3 years

 

My shakeup in the outfield would involve trading Beni, Keeping JBJ at center (probably not going to happen) and leaving Verdugo in RF. If JBJ goes I would give Duran an opportunity and use Chavis as the LF. I would use Munoz as backup in LF and RF and Lin as backup in CF. Holding out hope for another quality right handed hitting outfielder in place for Chavis.

 

No change at catcher

 

I would shake up the starting pitching by moving Eovaldi to a high leverage Relief role. Sale is not going anywhere but probably can't help us until June at the earliest. We have to hope E-Rod makes it back and Perez has looked like a reasonable 4th or 5th starter. We need to find at least one starter (preferrably two) from Pivetta, Houck, Mata, Seabold and Ward. . Then Bloom has to find us 2 decent quality starters. Starters aren't durable so having 6 to start with Sale returning sounds good to me.

 

Relief pitching with Eovaldi, Barnes, Hernandez, Taylor and Valdez supplemented by two quality arms would allow for competitiveness. Brice, Brewer, Brasier and Weber as alternates would be reasonable. I look to move the rest.

 

Our DH position has been very unproductive this year. Your value is indicated by your stats. My shakeup would be to trade Martinez and find a younger replacement.

 

That leaves us with the thought of what to do about Downs, Potts, Casas and Groome, all of which are knocking on the ML door. Downs in particular could be ready in 2021 and will we have a slot for him. Same for Casas in 2022.

 

It's the hard ass approach to the roster, but the management has to be willing to cut ties with unproductive players and build a team where everyone in the lineup contributes. It's not as easy as waving a magic wand, but I believe Bloom is the guy that will pursue a policy that requires performance from players

 

 

I like most of your ideas, but I don't see how JD could be traded unless you're eating a ton of salary.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Pivetta started 58 games in 2017 and 2018. He started 13 in 2019 before being removed from the rotation. And this year has been a shortened nightmare for any player where even the smalelst slump ruins your numbers.

 

Like Pivetta or not, Bloom trade for him and clearly viewed him as someone he wanted. He didn't just settle and take the best offer; if he wanted more, he had a few more days before the deadline to work something else out.

 

Now, it is possible he does no view Pivetta as a starter. But I think he does, which is why he is not with the parent club yet and is being stretched out in the alternate training site.

 

I think most likely case is Bloom acquires one established starter to go with the 4 he is expecting back, acquires some other depth pitchers or (close to) MLB-ready minor leaguers, and also gets several relievers, which is where the Sox real problem is anyway. Maybe two, if the Sox (wisely?) move Eovaldi to the bullpen. Although who knows what the plan is for Darwinzon Hernandez?

 

No way he tries to get 4 established starters without a much more massive overhaul....

 

It's doubtful he gets 4, but he needs 4, because it's 50-50 the Red Sox will get much in contributions from Sale, Rodriguez, even Eovaldi. Regarding ERod, nobody -- not even medical experts -- really know when, how or if longterm Covid patients will heal... It's also too bad about Song, because he was the prospect closest to the majors a year ago, but who knows how the military obligations will delay or destroy his future chances.

 

We all know adding one free agent starting pitcher won't do much for 2021 -- but the front office knows it may be able to get away with it if there are no ticket sales or fans again. I still expect another pitcher will come via trade in a deal that hurts; that means giving up a player or players of value.

[notin]

I would be happy to see a bit of a roster shakeup for 2021 that would make us competitive for a playoff spot (why not think positively) by bringing in some younger players and looking for some quality young starting and relief pitchers.

 

My shakeup in the infield would be to consider moving Devers to 1st (probably won't happen) and Dalbec to third. Bogaerts is our anchor at SS, Arroyo is looking like the young 2nd baseman we've needed for the last 3 years

 

I am on board with this move, but if the Sox keep the existing arrangement of Devers at 3B and Dalbec at 1b, I will assume it is being done with more inside knowledge than I will know or understand.

 

Despite the insanely small sample size, I actually do like the idea of letting Munoz and Arroyo battle for the starting 2B role (with the other taking on the utility infielder role). Both are very capable of disappointing, but both also have some history that I like.

 

My shakeup in the outfield would involve trading Beni, Keeping JBJ at center (probably not going to happen) and leaving Verdugo in RF. If JBJ goes I would give Duran an opportunity and use Chavis as the LF. I would use Munoz as backup in LF and RF and Lin as backup in CF. Holding out hope for another quality right handed hitting outfielder in place for Chavis.

 

I really doubt they use Chavis, who is a role player best used in a weakside platoon role, as the starting LF. Now if the Sox deal Benintendi for a SP and bring in, say, Joc Pederson to play LF, Chavis might make a for a good platoon partner since he has decent numbers vs LHP. I think Lin gets DFAd and released.

 

CF is wide open. Duran would not surprise me, but I think he becomes Plan B and the opening day CF is a placeholder like Pillar, Marisnick, Taylor or Lagares. Bradley, a Boras client, might price himself out of Boston and does have teams who like him. I expect him to land in Cleveland or San Francisco.

 

No change at catcher

 

Well, Vazquez does represent the one trading chip that intrigued the most teams, and more importantly, intrigued the ones with SP depth. If Cleveland or Tampa would give up a SP for him, it is certainly worth considering. Especially since the one free agent worth breaking the bank for on the free agent market is J.T. Realmuto.

 

I would shake up the starting pitching by moving Eovaldi to a high leverage Relief role. Sale is not going anywhere but probably can't help us until June at the earliest. We have to hope E-Rod makes it back and Perez has looked like a reasonable 4th or 5th starter. We need to find at least one starter (preferably two) from Pivetta, Houck, Mata, Seabold and Ward. . Then Bloom has to find us 2 decent quality starters. Starters aren't durable so having 6 to start with Sale returning sounds good to me.

 

Relief pitching with Eovaldi, Barnes, Hernandez, Taylor and Valdez supplemented by two quality arms would allow for competitiveness. Brice, Brewer, Brasier and Weber as alternates would be reasonable. I look to move the rest.

 

I do like Eovaldi to the bullpen for a "high leverage" relief role. Check. (Love the use of the phrase "high leverage relief" as opposed to the stone age term "closer."

 

Rotation? Acquisition-Rodriguez-Perez-Pivetta-(Mata?/Seabold?/Godley?/acquisition?/eventually Sale). If I had to peg one pitcher to be most likely to be acquired (and even then, the odds are in the 1% range), I go with Matt Boyd.

 

Bullpen should return Eovaldi, Barnes, Brasier, Taylor, Hernandez, Houck and maybe Valdez. Outside of maybe Stock, the rest of this year's staff can get DFA'd. This means a minimum of two relief pitchers (Ken Giles? Keone Kela? The underrated Hector Rondon?) are needed to join the team.

 

Our DH position has been very unproductive this year. Your value is indicated by your stats. My shakeup would be to trade Martinez and find a younger replacement.

 

Why bother? Martinez has struggled, but the team is going nowhere anyway, and the Sox would probably have to eat the bulk of his deal to trade him. Might as well pay him to hit here.

 

That leaves us with the thought of what to do about Downs, Potts, Casas and Groome, all of which are knocking on the ML door. Downs in particular could be ready in 2021 and will we have a slot for him. Same for Casas in 2022.

 

I don't think any of them are knocking on the door. Only Potts has more than a dozen games above A ball, and he did not exactly tear the league up (663 OPS in 537 PA). But he is also younger than Downs and Groome, so this is not a cause for alarm. No rush for any of them.

Edited September 15, 2020 by notin