2020 Trade Deadline

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Not all 'cliffs' are bad. Take for instance the 'Cliff' in CHEERS.

[Swiharts Ghost]

Not all 'cliffs' are bad. Take for instance the 'Cliff' in CHEERS.

 

Well played .

[jacksonianmarch]

I was impressed with hang’em chaim’s first draft. He did not get us any starting pitching, but I like it! hopefully this virus crap does not screw up next years minor league schedule.

 

Our minor league system is not completely bare, but most of the guys with the highest ceilings are in low a.

 

I like lugo better than cassas, but either way you look at it, the guys with the most upside are years away from contributing and very few of them are pitchers.

 

hang’em Chaim’s claim to legitimacy hinges on his ability to draft and develop starting pitching. He also has to upgrade our minor league coaches and teachers as well as our scouting and cross checker departments.

 

It is a lot of work to do after desperate Dave dropped a nuclear bomb on our baseball operations department and ran off all our best and brightest youngsters.

 

Bloom is not a masterful drafter. He is a masterful trader. Look at the Rays “starters”.

 

Snell was there before he took over

Chirinos was in the farm before he took over

Glasnow was acquired by trade by Bloom

Beeks was acquired by trade by Bloom

Yarbrough was acquired by trade by Bloom

 

Their relievers have the same spin. Very few get drafted by the Rays and make it up to the majors, but the Rays have a knack for dealing off valued pieces or prospects and winning the trades. Bloom is an expert trader

[dgalehouse]

Wake up Ron. Wake up Chaim. We lose again .

[Bellhorn04]

Wake up Ron. Wake up Chaim. We lose again .

 

Our starter today has a 22.50 ERA, so you'll probably be saying the same thing after this one.

[oldtimer]

Our starter today has a 22.50 ERA, so you'll probably be saying the same thing after this one.

 

Not just our starter. The BP sucked yesterday and look at our lineup today. Neither Bradley nor Lin can hit their way out of a wet paper bag. Too bad we are so weak.

[notin]

Not just our starter. The BP sucked yesterday and look at our lineup today. Neither Bradley nor Lin can hit their way out of a wet paper bag. Too bad we are so weak.

 

Onm sone levels, I respect you, oldtimer. You seem like you have yet to wave a white flag on this season...

[moonslav59]

The trade simulator accepted this wild deal:

 

Bogey, Chavis, Hembree & Eovaldi

 

to SF

 

Ramos (OF prospects valued at 31.0), Yastremski, Dubon & Crawford

 

(No valuable pitchers in return could be found.)

 

[oldtimer]

The trade simulator accepted this wild deal:

 

Bogey, Chavis, Hembree & Eovaldi

 

to SF

 

Ramos (OF prospects valued at 31.0), Yastremski, Dubon & Crawford

 

(No valuable pitchers in return could be found.)

 

 

It will be interesting when the real trades get made to see if we were so foolish as to get rid of our core foundational players. I suppose one legitimate question is who are those players. I have a list but must say it is not very long. Bloom seems to have a concept going forward which looks to improve the club with every move and he doesn't want to set a timetable or a set of goals to achieve within a time frame. just keep improving with every move or don't make the move. The rest will take care of itself.Some will argue the Mookie Betts, Price trade didn't improve the team. I think Bloom is talking about long term sustainability and from that point of view, perhaps it did.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

It will be interesting when the real trades get made to see if we were so foolish as to get rid of our core foundational players. I suppose one legitimate question is who are those players. I have a list but must say it is not very long. Bloom seems to have a concept going forward which looks to improve the club with every move and he doesn't want to set a timetable or a set of goals to achieve within a time frame. just keep improving with every move or don't make the move. The rest will take care of itself.Some will argue the Mookie Betts, Price trade didn't improve the team. I think Bloom is talking about long term sustainability and from that point of view, perhaps it did.

 

What really remains to be seen is exactly what we're sustaining. Is it title contention (circa 2003-2008)? A run like that -- four years playing the final AL game with a shot at the World Series -- comes along in Boston once a century (the time before then was 1912-1918, when the Sox won four Series).

 

Or will we just be sustaining extreme inconsistencies -- with more teardowns/rebuilds (and reinvestments) in rings, ala '2012-13 or 2014/15 to 2016/17/18?

 

From a fan's stance, I'd be happy with just sustaining a core of star players to root for and follow as they develop together in a common cause to win. In other words, I'm not too excited to see musical rosters, like Bloom's low budget mad scientist experiments in Tampa.

[moonslav59]

It will be interesting when the real trades get made to see if we were so foolish as to get rid of our core foundational players. I suppose one legitimate question is who are those players. I have a list but must say it is not very long. Bloom seems to have a concept going forward which looks to improve the club with every move and he doesn't want to set a timetable or a set of goals to achieve within a time frame. just keep improving with every move or don't make the move. The rest will take care of itself.Some will argue the Mookie Betts, Price trade didn't improve the team. I think Bloom is talking about long term sustainability and from that point of view, perhaps it did.

 

To me, anyone can or might be traded, and I'm sure my views on who should be kept unless blown away by an offer differs from Bloom & Co.

 

Here is what I consider the core of our future. It does not mean these players are off limits, but all are under team control for 3 or more years, unless noted.

 

3B Devers

SS Bogaerts

OF Verdugo

1B Casas

2B Downs

 

SP Sale (likely not tradeable right now)

P DHernandez, Mata, Ward

 

Fringe:

Positional: Dalbec, Arroyo, Arauz, Jimenez, Lugo, Duran, Chavis, Yorke, Jordan, Chatham, Wong

Pitchers: Song, Taylor, Groome, Valdez, Houck

 

2 or less years (2021 & 2022)

FA after 2020: JBJ, Workman, Pillar

FA after 2021: Pedey, ERod, Moreland, Perez, Barnes, Hembree

FA after 2022: JD, Beni, Vaz, Eovaldi, Peraza, Plawecki

 

on 40 man roster but expendable:

Positional: Lin, Wilson

Pitchers: Walden, Brasier, Brewer, Weber, Triggs, Hall, Osich, Hart, Aybar, Godley, Brice, Springs, Covey, Stock

 

 

 

 

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

To me, anyone can or might be traded, and I'm sure my views on who should be kept unless blown away by an offer differs from Bloom & Co.

 

Here is what I consider the core of our future. It does not mean these players are off limits, but all are under team control for 3 or more years, unless noted.

 

3B Devers

SS Bogaerts

OF Verdugo

1B Casas

2B Downs

 

SP Sale (likely not tradeable right now)

P DHernandez, Mata, Ward

 

Fringe:

Positional: Dalbec, Arroyo, Arauz, Jimenez, Lugo, Duran, Chavis, Yorke, Jordan, Chatham, Wong

Pitchers: Song, Taylor, Groome, Valdez, Houck

 

2 or less years (2021 & 2022)

FA after 2020: JBJ, Workman, Pillar

FA after 2021: Pedey, ERod, Moreland, Perez, Barnes, Hembree

FA after 2022: JD, Beni, Vaz, Eovaldi, Peraza, Plawecki

 

on 40 man roster but expendable:

Positional: Lin, Wilson

Pitchers: Walden, Brasier, Brewer, Weber, Triggs, Hall, Osich, Hart, Aybar, Godley, Brice, Springs, Covey, Stock

 

 

 

 

 

Moon, I'm always impressed with your detailed breakdown of SOX information. I know it requires a lot of time and research. And for that I thank you.

[oldtimer]

To me, anyone can or might be traded, and I'm sure my views on who should be kept unless blown away by an offer differs from Bloom & Co.

 

Here is what I consider the core of our future. It does not mean these players are off limits, but all are under team control for 3 or more years, unless noted.

 

3B Devers

SS Bogaerts

OF Verdugo

1B Casas

2B Downs

 

SP Sale (likely not tradeable right now)

P DHernandez, Mata, Ward

 

Fringe:

Positional: Dalbec, Arroyo, Arauz, Jimenez, Lugo, Duran, Chavis, Yorke, Jordan, Chatham, Wong

Pitchers: Song, Taylor, Groome, Valdez, Houck

 

2 or less years (2021 & 2022)

FA after 2020: JBJ, Workman, Pillar

FA after 2021: Pedey, ERod, Moreland, Perez, Barnes, Hembree

FA after 2022: JD, Beni, Vaz, Eovaldi, Peraza, Plawecki

 

on 40 man roster but expendable:

Positional: Lin, Wilson

Pitchers: Walden, Brasier, Brewer, Weber, Triggs, Hall, Osich, Hart, Aybar, Godley, Brice, Springs, Covey, Stock

 

 

 

 

 

Have to commend you on such a thorough review of the Sox roster keepers, probables and others going forward. One youngster who may come up in 2 to 3 years is Blaze Jordan. We need mashers on the team and he has already risen on the prospect list to #13. He is around 18 years old and may see the roster by 2023. Of course, much will change with Bloom making moves. Be interesting to compare your list to what will exist in March of 2021. Good job.

[notin]

To me, anyone can or might be traded, and I'm sure my views on who should be kept unless blown away by an offer differs from Bloom & Co.

 

Here is what I consider the core of our future. It does not mean these players are off limits, but all are under team control for 3 or more years, unless noted.

 

3B Devers

SS Bogaerts

OF Verdugo

1B Casas

2B Downs

 

SP Sale (likely not tradeable right now)

P DHernandez, Mata, Ward

 

Fringe:

Positional: Dalbec, Arroyo, Arauz, Jimenez, Lugo, Duran, Chavis, Yorke, Jordan, Chatham, Wong

Pitchers: Song, Taylor, Groome, Valdez, Houck

 

2 or less years (2021 & 2022)

FA after 2020: JBJ, Workman, Pillar

FA after 2021: Pedey, ERod, Moreland, Perez, Barnes, Hembree

FA after 2022: JD, Beni, Vaz, Eovaldi, Peraza, Plawecki

 

on 40 man roster but expendable:

Positional: Lin, Wilson

Pitchers: Walden, Brasier, Brewer, Weber, Triggs, Hall, Osich, Hart, Aybar, Godley, Brice, Springs, Covey, Stock

 

 

 

 

 

Downs and Casas have 12 games above A-ball between them. Both are ranked prospects, which is good, but no guarantee of success. Garin Cecchini, Blake Swihart, Casey Kelly and Trey Ball were all ranked prospects at one time, too. And many others who had equally undistinguished careers.

 

I say at least at a minimum let them get a full season of AA ball under their belts before they are considered essential core of the team going forward. Really they should make MLB before they are considered the core you're building around...

[notin]

Have to commend you on such a thorough review of the Sox roster keepers, probables and others going forward. One youngster who may come up in 2 to 3 years is Blaze Jordan. We need mashers on the team and he has already risen on the prospect list to #13. He is around 18 years old and may see the roster by 2023. Of course, much will change with Bloom making moves. Be interesting to compare your list to what will exist in March of 2021. Good job.

 

Blaze Jordan is 17 years old. It might be a bit early to consider him part of the team's core going forward...

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Blaze Jordan is 17 years old. It might be a bit early to consider him part of the team's core going forward...

 

But when he was interviewed in the Little League World Series, he said, "I hit dingers." (wasn't that him?)

 

Around the turn of the century, the Red Sox' best future two-way superstar was Frankie Rodriguez. He was going to be so good, he made the cover of Baseball Card Magazine. They didn't know if they should play him at shortstop or pitcher.

 

Frankie, no relation to Francisco, wound up pitching for 7 MLB seasons with a career WAR of 1.2. He was 22 in his only year for Boston, when according to BB-Ref, his closest comp at that age was Pat Mahomes. Frankie's career record for Boston was 0-2 with a 10.57 ERA.

[notin]

But when he was interviewed in the Little League World Series, he said, "I hit dingers." (wasn't that him?)

 

Around the turn of the century, the Red Sox' best future two-way superstar was Frankie Rodriguez. He was going to be so good, he made the cover of Baseball Card Magazine. They didn't know if they should play him at shortstop or pitcher.

 

Frankie, no relation to Francisco, wound up pitching for 7 MLB seasons with a career WAR of 1.2. He was 22 in his only year for Boston, when according to BB-Ref, his closest comp at that age was Pat Mahomes. Frankie's career record for Boston was 0-2 with a 10.57 ERA.

 

Exactly my piint about pegging young minor leaguers as core players. Rodriguez was even further back than the turn of the century, and his lackluster MLB career ran from 1995 to 2001.

 

We could name former overhyped prospects turned busts for days. Remember Tony Blanco? Twice ranked by Baseball America, and Pedro Martinez himself compared Blanco to Vladimir Guerrero. Well, it turned out Blanco was not even comparable to Wladimir Balentein. Looking at the B-R page for his comparable hitters, and they don't even list any, as Blanco only managed 65 plate appearances (and a .490OPS!!) for his career. That's only 65 more than I had...

Edited August 20, 2020 by notin

[oldtimer]

Blaze Jordan is 17 years old. It might be a bit early to consider him part of the team's core going forward...

 

Who said he was a core player? I guess you are the only one who did. Given his rise in the prospect list, I presume he is a possible for a roster spot in 2023. He is a bit kid with a fair amount of power. I certainly hope he continues to rise as we need to develop new players for the Sox roster on a regular basis.

[notin]

Who said he was a core player? I guess you are the only one who did. Given his rise in the prospect list, I presume he is a possible for a roster spot in 2023. He is a bit kid with a fair amount of power. I certainly hope he continues to rise as we need to develop new players for the Sox roster on a regular basis.

 

That's what moonslav was talking about in the post you responded to...

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Exactly my piint about pegging young minor leaguers as core players. Rodriguez was even further back than the turn of the century, and his lackluster MLB career ran from 1995 to 2001.

 

We could name former overhyped prospects turned busts for days. Remember Tony Blanco? Twice ranked by Baseball America, and Pedro Martinez himself compared Blanco to Vladimir Guerrero. Well, it turned out Blanco was not even comparable to Wladimir Balentein. Looking at the B-R page for his comparable hitters, and they don't even list any, as Blanco only managed 65 plate appearances (and a .490OPS!!) for his career. That's only 65 more than I had...

 

Tony Blanco from the Bronx? His biggest hit was Carlito at the end of Carlito's Way.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

But when he was interviewed in the Little League World Series, he said, "I hit dingers." (wasn't that him?)

 

Around the turn of the century, the Red Sox' best future two-way superstar was Frankie Rodriguez. He was going to be so good, he made the cover of Baseball Card Magazine. They didn't know if they should play him at shortstop or pitcher.

 

Frankie, no relation to Francisco, wound up pitching for 7 MLB seasons with a career WAR of 1.2. He was 22 in his only year for Boston, when according to BB-Ref, his closest comp at that age was Pat Mahomes. Frankie's career record for Boston was 0-2 with a 10.57 ERA.

 

In contrast to Juan Pena... 2-0, 0.69 ERA for the Red Sox in May '99, 0.923 WHIP, 10 Ks in 13 IP... then a direct hit line drive obliterated his elbow and he never pitched again in the majors. I had high hopes for him, and then remorse for his fickle fate... now I envision him bookmarking his bb-ref bio, unbeaten for eternity...

[Bellhorn04]

Tony Blanco from the Bronx? His biggest hit was Carlito at the end of Carlito's Way.

 

Now that's funny. It was Benny Blanco of course, played by John LeGuizamo (SIC), with Luis Guzman playing Judas in that scene.

[Bellhorn04]

In contrast to Juan Pena... 2-0, 0.69 ERA for the Red Sox in May '99, 0.923 WHIP, 10 Ks in 13 IP... then a direct hit line drive obliterated his elbow and he never pitched again in the majors. I had high hopes for him, and then remorse for his fickle fate... now I envision him bookmarking his bb-ref bio, unbeaten for eternity...

 

I remember him. Incredibly bad luck.

[moonslav59]

Downs and Casas have 12 games above A-ball between them. Both are ranked prospects, which is good, but no guarantee of success. Garin Cecchini, Blake Swihart, Casey Kelly and Trey Ball were all ranked prospects at one time, too. And many others who had equally undistinguished careers.

 

I say at least at a minimum let them get a full season of AA ball under their belts before they are considered essential core of the team going forward. Really they should make MLB before they are considered the core you're building around...

 

You are correct, but I think I was thinking more on the lines of who we should keep to build towards a competitive team 2-3 years down the line.

 

It's not that I would not trade Casas or Downs for the right player(s), but they have the best shot at being key players for us down the line than others I listed.

[moonslav59]

Have to commend you on such a thorough review of the Sox roster keepers, probables and others going forward. One youngster who may come up in 2 to 3 years is Blaze Jordan. We need mashers on the team and he has already risen on the prospect list to #13. He is around 18 years old and may see the roster by 2023. Of course, much will change with Bloom making moves. Be interesting to compare your list to what will exist in March of 2021. Good job.

 

Thanks. I did mention Jordan as "fringe," and it would be great if he moves up the list.

[moonslav59]

Moon, I'm always impressed with your detailed breakdown of SOX information. I know it requires a lot of time and research. And for that I thank you.

 

Thanks. People sometimes call me the "copy and paste" king, but I mostly do all this from scratch.

[mvp 78]

Blaze Jordan is 17 years old. It might be a bit early to consider him part of the team's core going forward...

 

A 17 year old that may never hit professional pitching.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I want the Sox to keep Casas -- a big, lefty bopper who's still growing -- just to see if he can hit a few pop-ups at Yankee Stadium.

 

(unless he's Lars Anderson, then they can trade him... but not if he's Anthony Rizzo)

[moonslav59]

Soxprospects.com has these projected rosters for 2022 and 2023 (assuming no acquisitions and with appropriate disclaimers):

 

2022 2023

Sale-Sale

Eovaldi-Song/Zeferjahn

Mata-Mata

Ward-Ward

Groome-Groome

DHern-DHern (Closer)

Houck>>

Taylor>>

Brasier>>

Feltman>>

Shugart>>

AYbar>>

Osich-Bello

Mazza-Murphey/ARamirez

 

Vaz>Wong

Casas>>

Downs>>

Bogey>>

Devers>>

Beni>Duran

Duran>Jimenez

Verdugo>>

JD>Dalbec

 

Bench:

Wong>Pereda

Chavis>>

Chatham>>

Peraza/Lin>Lin

Dalbec>Cannon

Wilson>Wilson

 

To see 2024 and 2025, too, click here:

 

https://soxprospects.com/future.htm

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Swiharts Ghost]

Thanks. I did mention Jordan as "fringe," and it would be great if he moves up the list.

 

Had our moments .Moon has a way of pulling information and evaluating that has me thinking is this guy an ex GM ??? Lol honestly this board has incredibly insightful people Jax included .I just wish he didn’t take so much joy in bringing bad news .....I get it !!! Just hate it .Thad Ward is a great call by Moon .My wife and I watched him in Zebulon NC and he’s a FREAK !!! He reminds me so much of the Freak in SF a few years back .Thad has great leverage for his frame and his FB explodes and Moves or drifts ? It’s so sick .Thad hits batters a few too many times is the write up ...kid is special can’t wait to see him .I would Not Trade Thad he’s the next John Lester for Boston .I am a bit concerned about Casas bat more than some .I don’t know if Casas and that wide stance ala bags is the issue ? Is it his height and mechanics ? I’m not sold on Casas yet .I guess Casas for me is traceable .Downs I am excited about his mechanics and the pop I see his glove looks solid I don’t Trade Downs unless it’s for a Clevinger type pitcher .Moon gave an outstanding breakdown I know I write clunky ...I am legally blind go easy please .