2020 Trade Deadline

[dgalehouse]

When Bloom was questioned about the state of the Red Sox ; he said ( and I quote ) " There is a lot of work to do ." Brilliant analysis by the " Magic Man " . But Jimmy Schmidlap , down at the pub , could have told you that for a lot less money .

[Bellhorn04]

When Bloom was questioned about the state of the Red Sox ; he said ( and I quote ) " There is a lot of work to do ." Brilliant analysis by the " Magic Man " . But Jimmy Schmidlap , down at the pub , could have told you that for a lot less money .

 

Jeez Denny. That was just the last thing Bloom said in the interview with Abraham. Besides, what the heck do you expect him to say. He comes into a situation where he's told to trade Betts and Price, he's given a tiny budget for signing players, the incumbent manager is fired, Sale needs TJ surgery, E-Rod is gone with Covid-19, there's no players ready on the farm etc. etc.

 

I was not one of the big Dombrowski bashers here, but he really didn't leave the team in good shape.

[jacksonianmarch]

Now, now, now....You're respected here. There's really no need for that. Be happy your team is hundred times better.

 

I am happy, although for the rivalry, it’s best when both teams are awesome.

[jacksonianmarch]

Dombrowski did what he said he’d do. He won a title. He did not leave a caveat, but he left the Tigers in a rut they haven’t climbed out of. The Sox are headed the same direction. That’s why the Sox hired Bloom. Bloom can build. It’s exceedingly more difficult to build these days. He’s proven capable of doing it on no money

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Dombrowski did what he said he’d do. He won a title. He did not leave a caveat, but he left the Tigers in a rut they haven’t climbed out of. The Sox are headed the same direction. That’s why the Sox hired Bloom. Bloom can build. It’s exceedingly more difficult to build these days. He’s proven capable of doing it on no money

 

The difference between Detroit and Boston is that these owners -- if they aren't secretly planning on selling -- will spend and not accept a loser. Old rich men don't suddenly change; yes, they brought in Bloom, but it's a smart move, hiring someone who's already adjusted to modern MLB salary and draft rules that didn't exist when Epstein was given the keys to the coffers.

 

My biggest dread post-Betts -- besides that I'm convinced he'll sustain greatness for a lot longer than experts (with John Tomase body shapes) predict -- is that Henry and Werner will run out of patience and order Bloom to blow the savings on lesser players in marketing ploys... because old rich men can't change.

 

Like I argued all winter, I would be thrilled if a rival traded its best player; because they wouldn't be as good, and the longterm effects will be even worse when they squander funds trying to overcompensate.

[notin]

Jeez Denny. That was just the last thing Bloom said in the interview with Abraham. Besides, what the heck do you expect him to say. He comes into a situation where he's told to trade Betts and Price, he's given a tiny budget for signing players, the incumbent manager is fired, Sale needs TJ surgery, E-Rod is gone with Covid-19, there's no players ready on the farm etc. etc.

 

I was not one of the big Dombrowski bashers here, but he really didn't leave the team in good shape.

 

 

And that was exactly the point the Dombrowski Bashers predicted. I was right off the bat angry about the Kimbrel trade and the Price contract for this exact reason. And the Eovaldi contract, too...

[Bellhorn04]

Like I argued all winter, I would be thrilled if a rival traded its best player; because they wouldn't be as good, and the longterm effects will be even worse when they squander funds trying to overcompensate.

 

That assumes that they're poorly managed, though, to a certain degree.

 

Right now Mookie is playing like a beast, as he surely can, and it's making us cringe. Have to keep in mind his new contract starts next year and runs until 2032, when he turns 40.

[Bellhorn04]

And that was exactly the point the Dombrowski Bashers predicted. I was right off the bat angry about the Kimbrel trade and the Price contract for this exact reason. And the Eovaldi contract, too...

 

I know this well.

[Noles_1335]

Serious Question;

 

 

What would YOU have done with Betts situation? Answer that, be specific. Talk to me like I'm the owner and you're the GM.

 

Exactly what we did, however, we needed to also get an arm in that trade with knowing the question marks within our rotation!

[harmony]

Exactly what we did, however, we needed to also get an arm in that trade with knowing the question marks within our rotation!

Young righthander Brusdar Graterol, who reportedly failed his Red Sox physical, has made 10 appearances with the Dodgers so far this season but apparently is not projected as a starter:

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.fcgi?id=gratebr01&t=p&year=2020

[notin]

The difference between Detroit and Boston is that these owners -- if they aren't secretly planning on selling -- will spend and not accept a loser. Old rich men don't suddenly change; yes, they brought in Bloom, but it's a smart move, hiring someone who's already adjusted to modern MLB salary and draft rules that didn't exist when Epstein was given the keys to the coffers.

 

My biggest dread post-Betts -- besides that I'm convinced he'll sustain greatness for a lot longer than experts (with John Tomase body shapes) predict -- is that Henry and Werner will run out of patience and order Bloom to blow the savings on lesser players in marketing ploys... because old rich men can't change.

 

Like I argued all winter, I would be thrilled if a rival traded its best player; because they wouldn't be as good, and the longterm effects will be even worse when they squander funds trying to overcompensate.

 

Strong disagree.

 

Ilitchwas spending like mad to get a title and Dombrowski had an open checkbook. Did you realize 37yo Miguel Cabrera is still owed $92 million over the next 3 years?!?! Who the f*** pays a 40yo DH $30mill per?!?!?

 

Betts will have a tremendous career, but Henry has spending limits. Some fans just don’t want to acknowledge this and think he “prints money.” Others, whose names rhyme with Flea Peach Dead, think he should stop spending on his soccer team and trophy wife and spend those dollars on the Red Sox. But the fact remains, no matter what he spends on anything else, only so much is earmarked for the Red Sox. He cut spending Cherington’s first year, too.

 

Trading a superstar rarely yields equal return, and the only time I can think of it happening was when the Guardians traded Bartolo Colon. (The Mariners trade of Mark Langston would rank if anyone ever thought Langston was a superstar.). But since Dombrowski spent his allowance, it always looked like retaining Betts was going to be difficult if not impossible. And Verdugo will never be Betts, but he certainly could be an All Star someday. (And I think the same about Graterol, which is why it bugs me.)

Edited August 18, 2020 by notin

[Swiharts Ghost]

I am happy, although for the rivalry, it’s best when both teams are awesome.

 

You’re a bitch let’s face it .Every time something negative happens you’re bitch ass is the first to point it out wonder why Bitch ? Never cussed you ever and you pull that ? Freaking Yankee fan typical...Jax I’m going to laugh my asssss off when your chokin ass boys get bounced .I will Rush here and stAte the obvious just like you do pal .Ignore me I don’t like you much .

Edited August 18, 2020 by Swiharts Ghost

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Strong disagree.

 

Ilitchwas spending like mad to get a title and Dombrowski had an open checkbook. Did you realize 37yo Miguel Cabrera is still owed $92 million over the next 3 years?!?! Who the f*** pays a 40yo DH $30mill per?!?!?

 

Betts will have a tremendous career, but Henry has spending limits. Some fans just don’t want to acknowledge this and think he “prints money.” Others, whose names rhyme with Flea Peach Dead, think he should stop spending on his soccer team and trophy wife and spend those dollars on the Red Sox. But the fact remains, no matter what he spends on anything else, only so much is earmarked for the Red Sox. He cut spending Cherington’s first year, too.

 

Trading a superstar rarely yields equal return, and the only time I can think of it happening was when the Guardians traded Bartolo Colon. (The Mariners trade of Mark Langston would rank if anyone ever thought Langston was a superstar.). But since Dombrowski spent his allowance, it always looked like retaining Betts was going to be difficult if not impossible. And Verdugo will never be Betts, but he certainly could be an All Star someday. (And I think the same about Graterol, which is why it bugs me.)

 

I'm not so sure Dombro made the choice to sign the others at the risk of losing Betts. Subtle and not-so-subtle words from the likes of Henry, Merloni and Holley hint that Betts made that decision for the Sox.

 

Detroit under DD came in 1st four years in a row and had the MLB's best starting rotation -- five starters under 30 -- when Boston beat them for the '13 pennant; that was the year before they traded for Price. The rap against Dombro's Tigers is they never had a closer they could rely on in big moments (David Ortiz, David Ortiz!). That may be why his first big trade in Beantown was the overpay for the best available closer in his prime.

 

As for Cabrera, remember he was also Dombrowski's greatest deal, nabbing the best young hitter in baseball when Miggie was 24. Extending him into old age was obviously a mistake of Pujols proportions -- how can these clubs not see the inevitable breakdowns of large-bodied, 6-4, 250-lb professional athletes!

[jacksonianmarch]

You’re a bitch let’s face it .Every time something negative happens you’re bitch ass is the first to point it out wonder why Bitch ? Never cussed you ever and you pull that ? Freaking Yankee fan typical...Jax I’m going to laugh my asssss off when your chokin ass boys get bounced .I will Rush here and stAte the obvious just like you do pal .Ignore me I don’t like you much .

 

My bet is you would hide if the Yanks took the title. I’ve dealt with people like you for years. I’ll outlast you, no doubt.

[jacksonianmarch]

If Verdugo does end up an all star talent (I think he’ll have a few AS games in his ledger), then the trade is a steal for the Sox. You cannot look at any trade in a vacuum. It’s about years of control and circumstance. One year of Betts at high cost in a year where the Sox are more likely to be picking top 5 than last vs 5 years of a future all star at minuscule cost plus a top 50 prospect.

 

I was surprised Bloom could get what he got for Betts and half of Price’s contract. He did well. Now, you need to hope he can do the same with any shorter term assets to really burn this club to the ground and start over.

[notin]

I'm not so sure Dombro made the choice to sign the others at the risk of losing Betts. Subtle and not-so-subtle words from the likes of Henry, Merloni and Holley hint that Betts made that decision for the Sox.

 

Detroit under DD came in 1st four years in a row and had the MLB's best starting rotation -- five starters under 30 -- when Boston beat them for the '13 pennant; that was the year before they traded for Price. The rap against Dombro's Tigers is they never had a closer they could rely on in big moments (David Ortiz, David Ortiz!). That may be why his first big trade in Beantown was the overpay for the best available closer in his prime.

 

As for Cabrera, remember he was also Dombrowski's greatest deal, nabbing the best young hitter in baseball when Miggie was 24. Extending him into old age was obviously a mistake of Pujols proportions -- how can these clubs not see the inevitable breakdowns of large-bodied, 6-4, 250-lb professional athletes!

 

It’s very possible the Sox had no chance of extending Betts. But if that’s the case, then trading him was absolutely the right move, and hindsight only drills this point in even deeper, as the Sox have since lost Sale and ERod.

 

Dombrowski did a great job acquiring Cabrera, but his extension of him already ranks among the worst contracts in MLB history, and it’s far from over. His contract with Verlander looked that way, too, but Verlander somehow jumped back atop his game after a couple years where it looked like he was declining into mediocrity and is back among the best starters in MLB. Maybe the mistake there was unloading him, but I can totally understand why he did it.

 

He did have a weird knack for not only ignoring closers in Detroit, but the bullpen in general. He appeared to switch this philosophy in Boston not only with Kimbrel but also in his early deals to acquire Tyler Thornburg and Carson Smith, both of whom flopped for reasons unrelated to Dombrowski (unless he ignored medicals?).

 

The Sale extension was the most perplexing. I think everyone in the Milky Way figures Sale to be in line for a much bigger deal, and it was such a bargain, one could only wonder - were the medicals being ignored? Or did Dombrowski figure even if Sale missed some time, the overall contract would still be worth it.

 

The Eovaldi contract was f***ing stupid. If the rest of MLB was that hot for him, DD should have let him walk. World Series hero or not...

[dgalehouse]

It seems like eons ago since the Sox whipped the Dodgers in the World Series, coming within a hair of sweeping them . Actually, it has only been 22 months. We had , arguably , the best Red Sox team ever assembled. Certainly one of the best at the very least . The team that slinked out of the Bronx last night looked like a bedraggled, dispirited group of losers .

[vegasbob]

It seems like eons ago since the Sox whipped the Dodgers in the World Series, coming within a hair of sweeping them . Actually, it has only been 22 months. We had , arguably , the best Red Sox team ever assembled. Certainly one of the best at the very least . The team that slinked out of the Bronx last night looked like a bedraggled, dispirited group of losers .

 

With the loss of both Sale and Erod then Taylor/Hernandez from the BP, the team's fate was sealed for this year. However, the utter failure of now veteran players like Benintendi, Devers and JDM to hit hard and consistently has made the early inning deficits unrecoverable leading to your accurate observation of a dispirited group. Verdugo, Vazquez, Bogaerts combined with the aforementioned 3 should have been enough to carry this team to possibly a .500 level, not a 6-17 record. They are as much to blame for the outcomes as the rag arm throwers.

[a700hitter]

With the loss of both Sale and Erod then Taylor/Hernandez from the BP, the team's fate was sealed for this year. However, the utter failure of now veteran players like Benintendi, Devers and JDM to hit hard and consistently has made the early inning deficits unrecoverable leading to your accurate observation of a dispirited group. Verdugo, Vazquez, Bogaerts combined with the aforementioned 3 should have been enough to carry this team to possibly a .500 level, not a 6-17 record. They are as much to blame for the outcomes as the rag arm throwers.

The pitching staff ERA is over 6. It is the worst in all of baseball. No amount of hitting by Devers and JD would get this team to .500.

[moonslav59]

With the loss of both Sale and Erod then Taylor/Hernandez from the BP, the team's fate was sealed for this year.

 

The fate was sealed before all this.

 

We called it "the cliff."

[moonslav59]

It seems like eons ago since the Sox whipped the Dodgers in the World Series, coming within a hair of sweeping them . Actually, it has only been 22 months. We had , arguably , the best Red Sox team ever assembled. Certainly one of the best at the very least . The team that slinked out of the Bronx last night looked like a bedraggled, dispirited group of losers .

 

It was a sad sight. It's hard to watch.

 

(A very steep and immediate decline= cliff.)

[moonslav59]

The pitching staff ERA is over 6. It is the worst in all of baseball. No amount of hitting by Devers and JD would get this team to .500.

 

No doubt.

 

There aren't really all that many pluses.

 

Verdugo, Mitch, Pillar & maybe Valdez

[notin]

The fate was sealed before all this.

 

We called it "the cliff."

 

But... but.... but.... the cliff isn’t real!!!

[Swiharts Ghost]

My bet is you would hide if the Yanks took the title. I’ve dealt with people like you for years. I’ll outlast you, no doubt.

 

Not a chance .Its going to be a glorious next few months Bruins ,Celtics ,Patriots watching yanks gag .

[moonslav59]

But... but.... but.... the cliff isn’t real!!!

 

"We will rebuild the farm."

"Henry will spend what is needed."

"There is too much money at stake to allow us to suck for even a year."

"There will be no cliff."

 

[harmony]

You’re a bitch let’s face it .Every time something negative happens you’re bitch ass is the first to point it out wonder why Bitch ? Never cussed you ever and you pull that ? Freaking Yankee fan typical...Jax I’m going to laugh my asssss off when your chokin ass boys get bounced .I will Rush here and stAte the obvious just like you do pal .Ignore me I don’t like you much .

May you find the peace and happiness that apparently have eluded you.

[Larry Cook]

"We will rebuild the farm."

"Henry will spend what is needed."

"There is too much money at stake to allow us to suck for even a year."

"There will be no cliff."

 

 

Rebuilding a farm system takes time.

 

Keeping a farm system churning out players for the major league team takes excellent scouting and development.

 

Henry writing a check is easy, but comes with consequences down the road.

 

We are going to suck this year. We are probably going to suck less in 2021 and even less in 2022, if hang’em Chaim is legit.

 

2023, could be the start of something if we do this rebuild right and hang’em Chaim is legit.

[Swiharts Ghost]

May you find the peace and happiness that apparently have eluded you.

 

I didn’t start the cussing it was all in fun until he dropped F bombs.Couldnt be happier married 21 years beautiful daughter great Job ...little use for Yankee trolls .I love how he loves to shiv us every chance he gets but the minute someone calls him out ? Won’t lose a wink of sleep .Honestly keep out of it .

Edited August 19, 2020 by Swiharts Ghost

[moonslav59]

Rebuilding a farm system takes time.

 

Keeping a farm system churning out players for the major league team takes excellent scouting and development.

 

Henry writing a check is easy, but comes with consequences down the road.

 

We are going to suck this year. We are probably going to suck less in 2021 and even less in 2022, if hang’em Chaim is legit.

 

2023, could be the start of something if we do this rebuild right and hang’em Chaim is legit.

 

Yes, rebuilding the farm takes time and is much more difficult than it was under Theo, when supplemental picks seemed designed for richer teams, top players fell in the draft due to signability issues and Int'l signings were not restricted.

 

Many of us tried to say rebuilding the farm was not likely going to happen under DD.

1. We were winning "now" and so our draft picks were lower.

2. We were trading tons of prospects almost every year.

3. The rules changed to hurt big spenders and winners. We were both.

4. We got caught cheating and lost a year of Int'l signings- an area we used to do well.

 

I actually think we've done a good job, considering where we drafted and under this new system. We still are no where near as strong as we were under Theo and Ben, but we are better than we were 1-2+ years back. The farm got better with the Betts trade, and we should improve with next year's draft.

 

Most of our best prospects are 2-3 years away, so maybe we should shoot for respectability in 2021, competitiveness in 2022 and ring competition in 2023 or 2024.

 

[Larry Cook]

Yes, rebuilding the farm takes time and is much more difficult than it was under Theo, when supplemental picks seemed designed for richer teams, top players fell in the draft due to signability issues and Int'l signings were not restricted.

 

Many of us tried to say rebuilding the farm was not likely going to happen under DD.

1. We were winning "now" and so our draft picks were lower.

2. We were trading tons of prospects almost every year.

3. The rules changed to hurt big spenders and winners. We were both.

4. We got caught cheating and lost a year of Int'l signings- an area we used to do well.

 

I actually think we've done a good job, considering where we drafted and under this new system. We still are no where near as strong as we were under Theo and Ben, but we are better than we were 1-2+ years back. The farm got better with the Betts trade, and we should improve with next year's draft.

 

Most of our best prospects are 2-3 years away, so maybe we should shoot for respectability in 2021, competitiveness in 2022 and ring competition in 2023 or 2024.

 

 

I was impressed with hang’em chaim’s first draft. He did not get us any starting pitching, but I like it! hopefully this virus crap does not screw up next years minor league schedule.

 

Our minor league system is not completely bare, but most of the guys with the highest ceilings are in low a.

 

I like lugo better than cassas, but either way you look at it, the guys with the most upside are years away from contributing and very few of them are pitchers.

 

hang’em Chaim’s claim to legitimacy hinges on his ability to draft and develop starting pitching. He also has to upgrade our minor league coaches and teachers as well as our scouting and cross checker departments.

 

It is a lot of work to do after desperate Dave dropped a nuclear bomb on our baseball operations department and ran off all our best and brightest youngsters.