A Realistic View at 2020: Part II

[moonslav59]

Dombrowski should be paying. He built this team, after all...

 

I know. Blaming Chaim for having a very limited budget and injury plagued pitchers making ungodly money is beyond me.

 

Even blaming Henry makes more sense than Bloom, but to me, the writing was on the wall.

 

Too bad, when we finally look to be able to maybe get a first 2-3 pick, they change the rules.

[moonslav59]

Not quite this team. Here's a fun hy-pathetical game: if Dombro was ordered to trade Betts to get rid of Price, who would he have accepted from LA in return? I'd say -- in the very best interests of attempting to field a major league club in 2020 -- Dave would've started with Kenta Maeda (who the Dodgers were obviously ok with moving) instead of Downs and/or Wong. But that would also mean he'd take Joc Pederson or AJ Pollock instead of insisting on Verdugo.

 

We probably could have gotten Verdugo and Maeda for Betts & Price (+Cash).

 

I suggested that trade on the tradevalues site.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

With a gaping hole at 2B, maybe Casas or Mata/Ward will be traded.

 

They better not be, not for a second baseman, unless he's Altuve. There are no second sacker available worth swapping a top prospect for -- and even if, such a deal should only be consummated to help boost a contender, like the Ian Kinsler trade.

 

Boston should just sign a place-holder, someone like Yolmer Sanchez, a Gold Glover with speed.

[notin]

They better not be, not for a second baseman, unless he's Altuve. There are no second sacker available worth swapping a top prospect for -- and even if, such a deal should only be consummated to help boost a contender, like the Ian Kinsler trade.

 

Boston should just sign a place-holder, someone like Yolmer Sanchez, a Gold Glover with speed.

 

We already have a few Yolmer Sanchez types kicking around. While I like the idea of signing Sanchez or, better yet, Kolten Wong, it’s more likely someone from the Yairo Munoz/Christian Arroyo/Jon Arauz/CJ Chatham/TW Lin/Michael Chavis subset of infielders plays 2b, and maybe 1 or 2 more fill bench roles. I suppose a possible dark horse is Chad De La Guerra...

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

We already have a few Yolmer Sanchez types kicking around. While I like the idea of signing Sanchez or, better yet, Kolten Wong, it’s more likely someone from the Yairo Munoz/Christian Arroyo/Jon Arauz/CJ Chatham/TW Lin/Michael Chavis subset of infielders plays 2b, and maybe 1 or 2 more fill bench roles. I suppose a possible dark horse is Chad De La Guerra...

 

Seriously, I'd be happy with a good field, weak bat type -- someone a rebuilding pitching staff can count on to consistently nail down sure outs, especially DPs. For all the utility types listed, it's surprising there's not one elite glove in the group. Where's that Korean second baseman that someone here showed videos of last winter?

[notin]

Seriously, I'd be happy with a good field, weak bat type -- someone a rebuilding pitching staff can count on to consistently nail down sure outs, especially DPs. For all the utility types listed, it's surprising there's not one elite glove in the group. Where's that Korean second baseman that someone here showed videos of last winter?

 

Ryosuke Kikuchi. Japanese, not Korean. Absolutely love the idea.

 

 

Sadly after he failed to get an MLB offer (that he liked?), he signed a 4 year deal with the Hiroshima Carp last December...

Edited September 12, 2020 by notin

[moonslav59]

They better not be, not for a second baseman, unless he's Altuve. There are no second sacker available worth swapping a top prospect for -- and even if, such a deal should only be consummated to help boost a contender, like the Ian Kinsler trade.

 

Boston should just sign a place-holder, someone like Yolmer Sanchez, a Gold Glover with speed.

 

No. I didn't mean trade one for a 2Bman. I meant 2B is a bigger hole than 1B, so trading a 2Bman makes less sense.

 

The idea of trading anyone would be for a pitcher(s).

 

While we do need a CF'er for next year, pitching is a higher priority.

 

I think we will not seek a 2Bman, except for maybe a one year FA as a bridge to Downs.

[notin]

No. I didn't mean trade one for a 2Bman. I meant 2B is a bigger hole than 1B, so trading a 2Bman makes less sense.

 

The idea of trading anyone would be for a pitcher(s).

 

While we do need a CF'er for next year, pitching is a higher priority.

 

I think we will not seek a 2Bman, except for maybe a one year FA as a bridge to Downs.

 

So the Sox should put everything on Downs? I don't like the idea of the Red Sox depending on a guy named "Jeter".

 

Seriously, so what happen if you "bridge to Downs" and he just plain sucks? I know he is a ranked prospect (BA #86), but you know who else was a ranked prospect at one time? Jose Peraza. (BA #54 in 2015 and BA#66 in 2016). They don't all work out as planned.

 

Get a real 2B and worry about Downs when he makes it an issue. Let's not pretend he is Joe Morgan-in-the-wings...

[Bellhorn04]

Any team could afford Mookie. I know you understand the point, but you're overlooking or underplaying the point significantly by making that statement.

 

I don't really understand how a small market team could afford a $365 million contract.

[Bellhorn04]

I thought the deal was the best we could expect, despite not prying a prized pitcher from the pitcher-stocked Dodgers.

 

Unlike many here, I think dumping $16M a year from Price's salary made an already good deal even better.

 

It's anyone's guess how Price will do the next 2 years.

[Bellhorn04]

Too bad, when we finally look to be able to maybe get a first 2-3 pick, they change the rules.

 

They changed the rules for one year and for a pretty good reason IMO.

 

Just be glad the re-set counts.

[cp176]

Dombrowski should be paying. He built this team, after all...

 

******** once again after all... GM's just seem to provide a little hangup for you and your friends. Most of us I hope are big fans of the current guy who holds the position. After all ... they don't make the plays.

[Larry Cook]

We probably could have gotten Verdugo and Maeda for Betts & Price (+Cash).

 

I suggested that trade on the tradevalues site.

 

Or price and Betts for may and verdugo!

[notin]

******** once again after all... GM's just seem to provide a little hangup for you and your friends. Most of us I hope are big fans of the current guy who holds the position. After all ... they don't make the plays.

 

So... Dombrowski didn’t leave the team with a bunch of heavy contracts and no farm system?

 

Or do you only chime in when someone denigrates Dombrowski? Why not say something when dgalehouse makes critical commentary about Bloom?

[harmony]

Or price and Betts for may and verdugo!

If only Chaim Bloom could negotiate as well as Talk Sox posters!

 

With all due respect, Dodgers president of baseball operations Andrew Friedman probably would have taken us posters to the cleaners with Red Sox fans so motivated to move David Price's contract.

[notin]

If only Chaim Bloom could negotiate as well as Talk Sox posters!

 

With all due respect, Dodgers president of baseball operations Andrew Friedman probably would have taken us posters to the cleaners with Red Sox fans so motivated to move David Price's contract.

 

Well, I have been very vocal in wishing he kept Graterol. Whatever he didn’t like, Friedman certainly did...

[Bellhorn04]

So... Dombrowski didn’t leave the team with a bunch of heavy contracts and no farm system?

 

Or do you only chime in when someone denigrates Dombrowski? Why not say something when dgalehouse makes critical commentary about Bloom?

 

Maybe because Dombrowski had 3 division winners and one team that went 108-54 and won it all, and Bloom has done nothing yet.

 

Not everyone is into the deep analysis of all the whys and wherefores like you and I are...some folks truly focus on results.

[oldtimer]

No. I didn't mean trade one for a 2Bman. I meant 2B is a bigger hole than 1B, so trading a 2Bman makes less sense.

 

The idea of trading anyone would be for a pitcher(s).

 

While we do need a CF'er for next year, pitching is a higher priority.

 

I think we will not seek a 2Bman, except for maybe a one year FA as a bridge to Downs.

 

The Sox will give most of the remaining reps at 2nd to Arroyo. He has been often injured in the past but has talent and is worth a good look. So far, no one else has impressed

[Kimmi]

Fourteen games left . The Sox have to run the table just to finish at .500 . What are the odds of doing that ? But " the future looks bright . " The farm is growing .

 

Stop.

[Kimmi]

Fourteen games left . The Sox have to run the table just to finish at .500 . What are the odds of doing that ? But " the future looks bright . " The farm is growing .

 

Also, so much for that.

[Kimmi]

I thought the deal was the best we could expect, despite not prying a prized pitcher from the pitcher-stocked Dodgers.

 

Unlike many here, I think dumping $16M a year from Price's salary made an already good deal even better.

 

I was on board with the deal. I was and am happy with the return. I know that some would have preferred Graterol, but for me, if Graterol only projects to be a reliever and not a starter, than Downs is the better value. Yes, we could have asked for another pitcher from the Dodgers. I'm guessing that Bloom did that and felt that Downs was the overall better get.

 

It's odd that I was against signing Price for his contract amount, yet I was also against trading him as part of the Mookie trade. In hindsight, the trade worked out very well, but at the time, I was looking to compete and we needed the starting pitcher.

[dgalehouse]

Also, so much for that.

 

Running the table is now off the table .

[notin]

Maybe because Dombrowski had 3 division winners and one team that went 108-54 and won it all, and Bloom has done nothing yet.

 

Not everyone is into the deep analysis of all the whys and wherefores like you and I are...some folks truly focus on results.

 

He did, but playing the game where the impact of a GM starts the day he is hired and ends the day he departs and no predecessor ever impacts his role feels incomplete.

 

And as long as I don’t get over critical of the crowd that says that, I feel ok in criticizing the notion itself...

[Kimmi]

To Chaim , Ronnie and all the boys in analytics : Thank you for participating in the 2020 MLB season. We do have a nice , little trophy for you . You deserve it . We suggest that you take the players out for pizza after the final game . They deserve it too . They tried their best.

 

Thanks Dave!

[Kimmi]

I don't really understand how a small market team could afford a $365 million contract.

 

Well, I honestly don't know the worth of small market teams, but I'm guessing that all owners could afford to to pay a player $30 million a year. That might not leave a lot of payroll room for the rest of the team, but they could afford it. If I'm wrong about that, then I'll edit my statement to say many teams could afford it.

 

Regardless, I still think you're oversimplifying the matter.

[Kimmi]

Maybe because Dombrowski had 3 division winners and one team that went 108-54 and won it all, and Bloom has done nothing yet.

 

Not everyone is into the deep analysis of all the whys and wherefores like you and I are...some folks truly focus on results.

 

But there has to be consideration given to how Dombrowski got there.

 

I do not, by any means, think that I am nearly as capable as Dombrowski is in being a GM. However, I do think that I, or any of us here, could have gotten the team to 3 division winners in a row, given the same situation that Dombrowski came into. That's how good the foundation was.

 

I won't go so far as to say that I could have had a team as good as the 2018 team. I give Dombrowski props for the final moves made to create that season.

[Kimmi]

Running the table is now off the table .

 

What the heck. I say run the table anyway, and see what happens.

[Kimmi]

He did, but playing the game where the impact of a GM starts the day he is hired and ends the day he departs and no predecessor ever impacts his role feels incomplete.

 

And as long as I don’t get over critical of the crowd that says that, I feel ok in criticizing the notion itself...

 

^^^

[Bellhorn04]

Well, I honestly don't know the worth of small market teams, but I'm guessing that all owners could afford to to pay a player $30 million a year. That might not leave a lot of payroll room for the rest of the team, but they could afford it. If I'm wrong about that, then I'll edit my statement to say many teams could afford it.

 

Regardless, I still think you're oversimplifying the matter.

 

All I have really been saying is that the primary reason Mookie was traded is that they didn't want to give him the contract he wanted.

 

To me that's all the reason they needed.

 

Do you strongly disagree with that?

[Bellhorn04]

Well, I honestly don't know the worth of small market teams, but I'm guessing that all owners could afford to to pay a player $30 million a year. That might not leave a lot of payroll room for the rest of the team, but they could afford it. If I'm wrong about that, then I'll edit my statement to say many teams could afford it.

 

It's not just the 30 million a year. It's the risk that the player will get injured or decline but still be paid the 30 million for years, which would cripple a small market team.