A Realistic View at 2020: Part II

[moonslav59]

Who be he?

 

Some guy named Evo-something or other.

[Larry Cook]

Some guy named Evo-something or other.

 

Hard to believe hang’em Chaim couldn’t move him at the deadline,

[moonslav59]

Hard to believe hang’em Chaim couldn’t move him at the deadline,

 

He was hurt.

 

The offers were likley not very good and had the expectation that we'd pay a big chunk of his remaining contract.

 

If Eovaldi bounces back, next year, maybe we get more by trading him, then.

 

MAYBE!

[notin]

He was hurt.

 

The offers were likley not very good and had the expectation that we'd pay a big chunk of his remaining contract.

 

If Eovaldi bounces back, next year, maybe we get more by trading him, then.

 

MAYBE!

 

There was still some chatter about an Eovaldi/Oder trade with Texas, but likely it was killed by Eovaldi's injury...

[mvp 78]

@alexspeier

Most homers ever by a Red Sox CF:

1) Reggie Smith, 149

2) Fred Lynn, 124

3) Tony Armas, 113

4) Jackie Bradley Jr., 95

5) Ellis Burks, 95

[mvp 78]

Burks should have been here his whole career.

[notin]

Burks should have been here his whole career.

 

But we needed Eric Wedge!!!

[mvp 78]

But we needed Eric Wedge!!!

 

They couldn't have re-signed Burks and kept Eric Wedge? I don't remember this.

[notin]

They couldn't have re-signed Burks and kept Eric Wedge? I don't remember this.

 

They chose to protect Wedge over Burks in the expansion draft in 1992. The Rockies selected Burks...

[mvp 78]

They chose to protect Wedge over Burks in the expansion draft in 1992. The Rockies selected Burks...

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Major_League_Baseball_expansion_draft

 

Burks was a FA after 1992. He signed with the ChiSox that offseason. He then signed with the Rockies the following season.

 

Jody Reed AND Eric Wedge were both taken in the expansion draft.

 

You're story got jacked up at some point.

[mvp 78]

 

[notin]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Major_League_Baseball_expansion_draft

 

Burks was a FA after 1992. He signed with the ChiSox that offseason. He then signed with the Rockies the following season.

 

Jody Reed AND Eric Wedge were both taken in the expansion draft.

 

You're story got jacked up at some point.

 

Well, it has been a long time. Wedge was the player they didn’t protect?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Ellis Burks went from a guy who averaged 15 home runs a year in his 20s to 37 HRs per from age 31 to 37, his last full season. Those power explosion years were 1996 to 2002 (and not all were played in the thin air of the Rocky Mountains)... In '96, Burks led the majors with 93 extra-base hits -- one more than Brady Anderson and two more than ARod.

[mvp 78]

Well, it has been a long time. Wedge was the player they didn’t protect?

 

Seems like it.

 

"That's history pal!"

[moonslav59]

@alexspeier

Most homers ever by a Red Sox CF:

1) Reggie Smith, 149

2) Fred Lynn, 124

3) Tony Armas, 113

4) Jackie Bradley Jr., 95

5) Ellis Burks, 95

 

I could be wrong, but I don't think anyone on this list played more games with the Sox than JBJ.

 

Still, pretty impressive.

[moonslav59]

Burks should have been here his whole career.

 

I agree. He was great defensively and had a much better bat than JBJ.

[Nick]

I agree. He was great defensively and had a much better bat than JBJ.

 

Bloom, I don't have the energy to do this but...

 

masslive while back (one, two years ago) had details on baseball transactions during DD era. Specifically it dealt with who was traded for who.

 

I understand that this board hates DD and blames the lack of current talent in the minors, all of it on DD.

 

Would you have time to revisit the transactions?

 

I claim that changes in international pool/draft had bigger effect on dearth of Red Sox farm compared to earlier Henry era.

 

It's just gotten harder for top finishers to stockpile younger players.

 

If we had Ray's budget, Devers would be on the chopping block for two good young players. There would be this constant churning, thus better farm system but the parent team not good enough to win the World Championship.

 

I'm good with 'churning' concept with the caveat that if we have enough talent, we go sign that one difference maker, usually an ace to "go for it".

Edited September 7, 2020 by Nick

[Nick]

Suppose you are the league's top stud pitcher at 28.

 

Would you sign a one year $50M deal or settle for 10 year, $30M deal?

 

If you were an agent, what would you advise? I'm just curious to see if there are players/agents willing to gamble.

[Larry Cook]

Agents live well off the insecurity of front office personnel and cluelessness of rich owners!

[moonslav59]

Bloom, I don't have the energy to do this but...

 

masslive while back (one, two years ago) had details on baseball transactions during DD era. Specifically it dealt with who was traded for who.

 

I understand that this board hates DD and blames the lack of current talent in the minors, all of it on DD.

 

Would you have time to revisit the transactions?

 

I claim that changes in international pool/draft had bigger effect on dearth of Red Sox farm compared to earlier Henry era.

 

It's just gotten harder for top finishers to stockpile younger players.

 

If we had Ray's budget, Devers would be on the chopping block for two good young players. There would be this constant churning, thus better farm system but the parent team not good enough to win the World Championship.

 

I'm good with 'churning' concept with the caveat that if we have enough talent, we go sign that one difference maker, usually an ace to "go for it".

 

I have listed the major transactions by DD in the past, but I don't save that sort of stuff.

 

In theory, if Bloom does everything he did in TB, but is able to keep a few stars and sign some others, one would think we could do more than just compete like TB does almost every year.

 

Here's a list of all the prospects DD traded and their highest ranking on soxprospects.com top 20 list:

1 Yoan Moncada (Sale)

1 Blake Swihart (bonus pool money)

3 Manuel Margot (Kimbrel)

3 Anderson Espinoza (Pomeranz)

5 Michael Kopech (Sale)

5 Jalen Beeks (Eovaldi)

5 Devon Marrero (Josh Taylor)

6 Javier Guerra (Kimbrel)

7 Luis Basabe (Sale)

9 Mauricio Dubon (w T Shaw & Pennington for Thorburg)

11 Shaun Anderson (w Santos for Nunez)

13 Logan Allen (Kimbrel)

15 Santiago Espinol (Pearce)

17 Ty Buttrey (w 17 Jerez for Kinsler)

18 Luis Basabe (w Almonte for Ziegler)

18 Callahan ( w 20 Gerson Bautista & 20 Nogosek Addison Reed)

20 Carlos Asuaje (Kimbrel)

 

The sheer number of once top prospects is staggering, despite many deals being good or very good ones.

 

 

[moonslav59]

Suppose you are the league's top stud pitcher at 28.

 

Would you sign a one year $50M deal or settle for 10 year, $30M deal?

 

If you were an agent, what would you advise? I'm just curious to see if there are players/agents willing to gamble.

 

I think most would take $30M x 10, unless they were young and had faith in their health.

[Larry Cook]

I have listed the major transactions by DD in the past, but I don't save that sort of stuff.

 

In theory, if Bloom does everything he did in TB, but is able to keep a few stars and sign some others, one would think we could do more than just compete like TB does almost every year.

 

Here's a list of all the prospects DD traded and their highest ranking on soxprospects.com top 20 list:

1 Yoan Moncada (Sale)

1 Blake Swihart (bonus pool money)

3 Manuel Margot (Kimbrel)

3 Anderson Espinoza (Pomeranz)

5 Michael Kopech (Sale)

5 Jalen Beeks (Eovaldi)

5 Devon Marrero (Josh Taylor)

6 Javier Guerra (Kimbrel)

7 Luis Basabe (Sale)

9 Mauricio Dubon (w T Shaw & Pennington for Thorburg)

11 Shaun Anderson (w Santos for Nunez)

13 Logan Allen (Kimbrel)

15 Santiago Espinol (Pearce)

17 Ty Buttrey (w 17 Jerez for Kinsler)

18 Luis Basabe (w Almonte for Ziegler)

18 Callahan ( w 20 Gerson Bautista & 20 Nogosek Addison Reed)

20 Carlos Asuaje (Kimbrel)

 

The sheer number of once top prospects is staggering, despite many deals being good or very good ones.

 

 

 

I was really sad to see Logan Allen go. I thought he could have been a solid starter for us!

[moonslav59]

I was really sad to see Logan Allen go. I thought he could have been a solid starter for us!

 

The worst part about that, is that the deal could probably have been made without adding him.

 

All in all, though, not many of these deals look bad. The Thornburg deal sucked due to injury, and Espinoza has been hurt, so that deal does not look bad.

 

I wish we had Allen, Buttrey and Dubon, but none of them would have made us a winner, this year.

 

The Peacre & Eovaldi trades were a big part of the 2018 championship season.

 

The Nunez and Ziegler trades worked well for us but did not really contribute to a ring. (One could argue the Sale & Kimbrel deals were not essential to the 2018 ring, either.)

[dgalehouse]

Kind of an odd love / fascination being shown for Logan Allen. San Diego has since re-packaged him to Cleveland . As far as I know , Padre fans are not lamenting this . He is currently not on the Guardians active roster . His somewhat less than illustrious MLB career so far : 2-3 record . 5.86 ERA . 35 innings pitched . 45 hits allowed . 20 strikeouts . 19 walks . He is now 23 years old , and on his way to Jabroniville . I do agree that he would fit right in with our current crop of jabronis . But I do not miss him at all.

[moonslav59]

Kind of an odd love / fascination being shown for Logan Allen. San Diego has since re-packaged him to Cleveland . As far as I know , Padre fans are not lamenting this . He is currently not on the Guardians active roster . His somewhat less than illustrious MLB career so far : 2-3 record . 5.86 ERA . 35 innings pitched . 45 hits allowed . 20 strikeouts . 19 walks . He is now 23 years old , and on his way to Jabroniville . I do agree that he would fit right in with our current crop of jabronis . But I do not miss him at all.

 

His numbers have not been good at all for the last year and a half, but he'd probably place 5th or 6th on our list of best ML ready & healthy pitchers, right now.

 

That's not saying all that much, but he does look better than about 20 jabronis that have been on our staff, this year.

[dgalehouse]

His numbers have not been good at all for the last year and a half, but he'd probably place 5th or 6th on our list of best ML ready & healthy pitchers, right now.

 

That's not saying all that much, but he does look better than about 20 jabronis that have been on our staff, this year.

 

Yup . That is a very low bar , for sure.

[harmony]

The worst part about that, is that the deal could probably have been made without adding him.

What evidence suggests the trade could be made without including Logan Allen?

 

Negotiations typically include numerous permutations and the resulting trade represents the product of that give-and-take,

[Bellhorn04]

Kind of an odd love / fascination being shown for Logan Allen. San Diego has since re-packaged him to Cleveland . As far as I know , Padre fans are not lamenting this . He is currently not on the Guardians active roster . His somewhat less than illustrious MLB career so far : 2-3 record . 5.86 ERA . 35 innings pitched . 45 hits allowed . 20 strikeouts . 19 walks . He is now 23 years old , and on his way to Jabroniville . I do agree that he would fit right in with our current crop of jabronis . But I do not miss him at all.

 

It's true, he hasn't done much yet. Maybe he will, but it's no given.

[dgalehouse]

It's true, he hasn't done much yet. Maybe he will, but it's no given.

 

He might yet figure it out . It's just that I don't get the regret about moving him.

[notin]

Kind of an odd love / fascination being shown for Logan Allen. San Diego has since re-packaged him to Cleveland . As far as I know , Padre fans are not lamenting this . He is currently not on the Guardians active roster . His somewhat less than illustrious MLB career so far : 2-3 record . 5.86 ERA . 35 innings pitched . 45 hits allowed . 20 strikeouts . 19 walks . He is now 23 years old , and on his way to Jabroniville . I do agree that he would fit right in with our current crop of jabronis . But I do not miss him at all.

 

Right. Because if they don’t have. Cy Young Award by the time they’re 23, their obviously Career Minor League Material...