Opening Day lineup.... and roster spots

[mvp 78]

Sox got a WS out of it but boxed themselves into a corner between 2017 and 2019 that there was no real good way out of other than moving Mookie. I don't see much chance of bringing him back to Boston. Boston won't IMO pay him what he can get elsewhere. But at least there is some hope now that we can get on track in the near term. Does not take much to get on track given the sludge that is MLB these days.

 

Eovaldi, JBJ, Price and some bad trades put them in a corner, not Mookie IMO.

[S5Dewey]

You think they'd never be able to reset if they re-signed Mookie?

 

I bet there are some massive adjustments to CBT with the next bargaining agreement.

 

Yes. That's the unknown in all of this. If they make some dramatic changes in the LT limits in the CBT Mookie may be more affordable after all. The bad news is that he'll also be more affordable to other teams too... but that's another story.

[moonslav59]

You think they'd never be able to reset if they re-signed Mookie?

 

I bet there are some massive adjustments to CBT with the next bargaining agreement.

 

If they extended Mookie and tried to reset in 2021, we'd be worse off than now. We'd have all kinds of holes with no cash to spend.

 

Maybe we could look to reset after Price's deal expired, but that's 3 years. Maybe we'd avoid the surtaxes, but I can't see how not resetting in 2020 and keeping Betts, it would be possible to stay highly competitive in the year we chose to reset.

[mvp 78]

If they extended Mookie and tried to reset in 2021, we'd be worse off than now. We'd have all kinds of holes with no cash to spend.

 

Maybe we could look to reset after Price's deal expired, but that's 3 years. Maybe we'd avoid the surtaxes, but I can't see how not resetting in 2020 and keeping Betts, it would be possible to stay highly competitive in the year we chose to reset.

 

Do you believe we'll be highly competitive in 2021 now?

[moonslav59]

The clincher in ^that^ was "if the idea was to stay highly competitive for several more years". No, that wasn't going to happen. We weren't going to be able to keep him for 2020 and be highly competitive in the future too. However, I did explore the idea of keeping Mookie & Price for one more year to make a last-gasp run at a successful season in 2020. While that's something I could have lived with I have to acknowledge that what's happened was the smarter thing to have done. Again, what you want vs. what you need. Ugh.

 

That makes more sense, to me, than wanting to keep Betts, then resign him without resetting, but getting nothing for Betts and still having Price's full contract on the books for 2 more years after 2020 would have made the rebuild more painful and much more difficult.

 

Verdugo, alone, should be much better than any comp pick we might have drafted. Downs and Wong just jumped our farm rankings up a few notched- making our extended future look a little brighter.

[moonslav59]

Do you believe we'll be highly competitive in 2021 now?

 

Maybe- maybe not, but we'll be more competitive than we would have with just a comp pick and Price's $32M x 2 still dragging us down. Plus, the idea would be that the reset would have to happen in 2021, so we'll be way better than a 2021 team in the midst of a reset.

 

I have faith in Bloom. He can spend the precious dollars we have opened up now well. We lose JBJ's contract next winter, and assuming we will be able to spend over the tax line after a reset, like we always have, I think it could happen in 2021. More likely, 2022 is the year, but not resetting would have, IMO, set us back 2-3 more years.

[jacksonianmarch]

Opening Day Lineup/Rotation/Pen alignment

 

1. Verdugo RF

2. Bogaerts SS

3. Benintendi LF

4. Martinez DH

5. Devers 3B

6. Vazquez C

7. JBJ CF

8. Chavis 1B

9. Dalbec 2B

 

Depth-

Plawecki C

Moreland 1B

Martinez 2B/UTIL

 

SP1- Sale

SP2- ERod

SP3- Eovaldi

SP4- Perez

SP5- Johnson

 

CL- Workman

SU- Barnes

SU- Hembree

MR- Taylor

LR- Neck Tat

 

There will be battles for the 5th spot as well as the fill in spots in the pen as well as 2B and 4th OFer. Versatility is the name of the game

[Slasher9]

Do you believe we'll be highly competitive in 2021 now?

 

the odds are much better now that we reset.

[jacksonianmarch]

the odds are much better now that we reset.

 

I think this is going to be a reset and rebuild. Timing wise, it makes no sense to try to "go for it" while the Yanks are in the window and spending. The Yanks are likely staring at a 3 yr window then a "we'll see" beyond that when it comes to our farm. If the farm produces some cheap replacements and we pick and choose and trade off players as they get expensive, then we can prop this up. But the Yanks are FAR better than the sox and likely will be for 2020-2022, so "going for it" in that frame isn't worth it.

 

Also, if you deal off good assets for a good farm and then you deal the whole farm off again, then you're only repeating what DD did. What you don't realize is that what DD did was not built in one year. It took 3 last place finishes surrounding a fluke WS win to get that type of farm capital and he read the tea leaves right, enough to win a title. Bloom isn't going to get a 4 year rope to rebuild this. When he decides to come up for air and truly build again, he will not be allowed to miss. Cherington tried this and when he failed with his signings, he was axed. Bloom is smarter than that. My bet is this is the start of a total tear down with a core remaining that will be around for the next rise, and a rise will come. My bet is the sox are targeting 2023 and may end up making short term veteran deals the next couple years to pump enough excitement into the masses to keep up the ticket sales

[S5Dewey]

I think this is going to be a reset and rebuild. Timing wise, it makes no sense to try to "go for it" while the Yanks are in the window and spending. The Yanks are likely staring at a 3 yr window then a "we'll see" beyond that when it comes to our farm. If the farm produces some cheap replacements and we pick and choose and trade off players as they get expensive, then we can prop this up. But the Yanks are FAR better than the sox and likely will be for 2020-2022, so "going for it" in that frame isn't worth it.

 

While you're busily having MLB bubble-wrapping the WS trophy in preparation for it being sent to NY remember^^ that^^ is exactly what the Sox were saying three years ago. Things change... rapidly sometimes.. due to completely unforeseen things happening.

[Slasher9]

I think this is going to be a reset and rebuild. Timing wise, it makes no sense to try to "go for it" while the Yanks are in the window and spending. The Yanks are likely staring at a 3 yr window then a "we'll see" beyond that when it comes to our farm. If the farm produces some cheap replacements and we pick and choose and trade off players as they get expensive, then we can prop this up. But the Yanks are FAR better than the sox and likely will be for 2020-2022, so "going for it" in that frame isn't worth it.

 

Also, if you deal off good assets for a good farm and then you deal the whole farm off again, then you're only repeating what DD did. What you don't realize is that what DD did was not built in one year. It took 3 last place finishes surrounding a fluke WS win to get that type of farm capital and he read the tea leaves right, enough to win a title. Bloom isn't going to get a 4 year rope to rebuild this. When he decides to come up for air and truly build again, he will not be allowed to miss. Cherington tried this and when he failed with his signings, he was axed. Bloom is smarter than that. My bet is this is the start of a total tear down with a core remaining that will be around for the next rise, and a rise will come. My bet is the sox are targeting 2023 and may end up making short term veteran deals the next couple years to pump enough excitement into the masses to keep up the ticket sales

 

^^^^ these are a lot of words when you simply could have typed "the yankees are a .500 team at best"

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I just hope the Red Sox trade all their best players for minor leaguers to make it easier for the Yankees.

 

And bat Devers, their best hitter, fifth and not #2 or #3 so he won't get up in the first inning.

[mvp 78]

I just hope the Red Sox trade all their best players for minor leaguers to make it easier for the Yankees.

 

And bat Devers, their best hitter, fifth and not #2 or #3 so he won't get up in the first inning.

 

Here, let me tell you why batting 3rd is actually one of the worst lineup spots...

[Slasher9]

Here, let me tell you why batting 3rd is actually one of the worst lineup spots...

 

cliff lineup protection robot umps chocking go!

[jacksonianmarch]

I just hope the Red Sox trade all their best players for minor leaguers to make it easier for the Yankees.

 

And bat Devers, their best hitter, fifth and not #2 or #3 so he won't get up in the first inning.

 

Move him wherever you want, I just didn't think the sox would have 3 lefties in a row.

[mvp 78]

Verdugo

Xander

Devers

JD

Beni

Vaz

Mitch

Chavis

JBJ

[mvp 78]

The top of the order will look drastically different now IMO.

[jung]

I think this is going to be a reset and rebuild. Timing wise, it makes no sense to try to "go for it" while the Yanks are in the window and spending. The Yanks are likely staring at a 3 yr window then a "we'll see" beyond that when it comes to our farm. If the farm produces some cheap replacements and we pick and choose and trade off players as they get expensive, then we can prop this up. But the Yanks are FAR better than the sox and likely will be for 2020-2022, so "going for it" in that frame isn't worth it.

 

Also, if you deal off good assets for a good farm and then you deal the whole farm off again, then you're only repeating what DD did. What you don't realize is that what DD did was not built in one year. It took 3 last place finishes surrounding a fluke WS win to get that type of farm capital and he read the tea leaves right, enough to win a title. Bloom isn't going to get a 4 year rope to rebuild this. When he decides to come up for air and truly build again, he will not be allowed to miss. Cherington tried this and when he failed with his signings, he was axed. Bloom is smarter than that. My bet is this is the start of a total tear down with a core remaining that will be around for the next rise, and a rise will come. My bet is the sox are targeting 2023 and may end up making short term veteran deals the next couple years to pump enough excitement into the masses to keep up the ticket sales

 

So what did Cherries ML FA signings have to do with the farm system. IMO Cherries was too protective of his farm and DD simply too willing to rape it. Both had a tendency to fall in love with deals and fall in love with big name players.

[moonslav59]

The top of the order will look drastically different now IMO.

 

So will the bottom of the order, the rotation and maybe the pen.

[Slasher9]

JBj

Xander

Devers

JD

Beni

Verdugo

Vaz

Mitch

Chavis

[jacksonianmarch]

So what did Cherries ML FA signings have to do with the farm system. IMO Cherries was too protective of his farm and DD simply too willing to rape it. Both had a tendency to fall in love with deals and fall in love with big name players.

 

Cherries got a year to try and resurrect the team and his signings of Panda and Hanley were what sunk his time in Boston. Bloom will have to rebuild then will likely get a year to exit the rebuild. He won't be allowed to miss

[Kimmi]

Eovaldi, JBJ, Price and some bad trades put them in a corner, not Mookie IMO.

 

The totality of the moves made by Dombrowski put the Sox in a corner, or more aptly, at the cliff.

 

Giving Mookie the kind of contract that he is asking for would almost certainly put the Sox at another cliff in the not too distant future.

[Kimmi]

I think this is going to be a reset and rebuild. Timing wise, it makes no sense to try to "go for it" while the Yanks are in the window and spending. The Yanks are likely staring at a 3 yr window then a "we'll see" beyond that when it comes to our farm. If the farm produces some cheap replacements and we pick and choose and trade off players as they get expensive, then we can prop this up. But the Yanks are FAR better than the sox and likely will be for 2020-2022, so "going for it" in that frame isn't worth it.

 

Also, if you deal off good assets for a good farm and then you deal the whole farm off again, then you're only repeating what DD did. What you don't realize is that what DD did was not built in one year. It took 3 last place finishes surrounding a fluke WS win to get that type of farm capital and he read the tea leaves right, enough to win a title. Bloom isn't going to get a 4 year rope to rebuild this. When he decides to come up for air and truly build again, he will not be allowed to miss. Cherington tried this and when he failed with his signings, he was axed. Bloom is smarter than that. My bet is this is the start of a total tear down with a core remaining that will be around for the next rise, and a rise will come. My bet is the sox are targeting 2023 and may end up making short term veteran deals the next couple years to pump enough excitement into the masses to keep up the ticket sales

 

A lot of wishful thinking going on here Jacko.

 

It will be very funny when the Yankees once again fail to win the World Series this year.

[Kimmi]

^^^^ these are a lot of words when you simply could have typed "the yankees are a .500 team at best"

 

Had I had a drink in my mouth, it would be all over my laptop screen after reading this.

[Kimmi]

Here, let me tell you why batting 3rd is actually one of the worst lineup spots...

 

Please do.

 

But get it right.

[vegasbob]

There will have to be more maneuvering of the roster, even with the starting lineup fairly predictable. They can't open with only 3 OF'ers plus JDM and expect to get too far into the season. This is one of the spots where Holt's flexibility as IF/OF would pay a dividend. 4 Starting pitchers and some maybe openers, 2 of whom are coming off unhealthy arm years ? This won't last very long either. The $19million in tax space now opened can plug both holes with some marginal , late to the game talent.

 

Based on Peter Abraham's tweet of Chavis apparently trying to run, in the ST thread, I'd say he either has bulked up crazily as did Beni before or he's way out of shape to play infield. Maybe it's all muscle in his core. I will bet against Dalbec being one of the 26 to break camp but with instructions to remain ready for 1B when Mitch goes down.

 

Certainly interesting that the Betts deal resulted in a SS and a C as the other two, as opposed to any MLB ready pitcher. Downs and Wong aren't ready for Fenway and strengthen the depth, but SS and C are two of the positions locked up for a a number of years. But qo with the best available talent rather than trying to fill open slots with poor, no future choices. Never know when they will be needed to come up .

[mvp 78]

Please do.

 

But get it right.

 

Even if I got it right, it’d still be wrong.

[jung]

There will have to be more maneuvering of the roster, even with the starting lineup fairly predictable. They can't open with only 3 OF'ers plus JDM and expect to get too far into the season. This is one of the spots where Holt's flexibility as IF/OF would pay a dividend. 4 Starting pitchers and some maybe openers, 2 of whom are coming off unhealthy arm years ? This won't last very long either. The $19million in tax space now opened can plug both holes with some marginal , late to the game talent.

 

Based on Peter Abraham's tweet of Chavis apparently trying to run, in the ST thread, I'd say he either has bulked up crazily as did Beni before or he's way out of shape to play infield. Maybe it's all muscle in his core. I will bet against Dalbec being one of the 26 to break camp but with instructions to remain ready for 1B when Mitch goes down.

 

Certainly interesting that the Betts deal resulted in a SS and a C as the other two, as opposed to any MLB ready pitcher. Downs and Wong aren't ready for Fenway and strengthen the depth, but SS and C are two of the positions locked up for a a number of years. But qo with the best available talent rather than trying to fill open slots with poor, no future choices. Never know when they will be needed to come up .

 

We should never want to see JD in the OF again. That said I am not sure how much help Holt would be out there as right now we have 3 LH hitting OFers. We need a RHer not named JD to play out there. It should be clear that Moreland needs a platoon mate. He cannot go it alone at 1st base.

 

All of that said, we are really headed for an iceberg in the pitching and so far I have not seen an effort to turn the good ship Red Sox away from it.

[moonslav59]

We should never want to see JD in the OF again. That said I am not sure how much help Holt would be out there as right now we have 3 LH hitting OFers. We need a RHer not named JD to play out there. It should be clear that Moreland needs a platoon mate. He cannot go it alone at 1st base.

 

All of that said, we are really headed for an iceberg in the pitching and so far I have not seen an effort to turn the good ship Red Sox away from it.

 

In theory, Chavis could platoon at 1B, and if he doesn't work out, we have Dalbec. It's then one position we have 2 ML ready young players/prospects.

 

I agree, JD should never play OF, except at NL parks, and even then, I'd schedule all his rest days there, if possible.

 

We need pitching for 2021 and beyond, and also for 2020, so that should be our main focus for a trade.

 

A RH'd OF'er would be nice. If we stay well below the luxury tax, we could bring up Castillo for a partial year- his last season of control.

[Jasonbay44]

Even with the downgrade of Betts to Verdugo, I still think the offense will be among the best in the league. The pitching on the other had... Who the hell knows.