Opening Day lineup.... and roster spots

[Slasher9]

Apparently the Dodgers have already indicated they will try to retain Mookie with an extension. That's going to be interesting.

 

i would expect any team that traded for a $27MM 1 year rental to make that same public statement. that doesnt make it honest though.

[mvp 78]

Apparently the Dodgers have already indicated they will try to retain Mookie with an extension. That's going to be interesting.

 

Kill me.

[Slasher9]

Not happening.

 

Chaim needs to devote remaining resources to pitching.

 

agree 100%.

[mvp 78]

yup. but in a "rebuild" season it could be entertainment?

 

Pump up those NESN ratings.

 

It'll also give the racist fans something to bitch about. "He doesn't play the right way!!!!!"

[Bellhorn04]

i would expect any team that traded for a $27MM 1 year rental to make that same public statement. that doesnt make it honest though.

 

Personally I believe it. Friedman doesn't seem the kind of guy who would just make a one-year splash and leave it at that.

 

I think the Dodgers will make an offer but I have no idea how Mookie will respond.

[moonslav59]

This is how I know you’re full of it. The 2019 team had the same roster as 108 win 2018 except for Joe Kelly and Craig Kimbrel. Those two have zero to do with a cliff. You’ve used the cliff as a boogeyman to further all your weak arguments.

 

You're right, the team we had on paper should not have produced that poor of a record. I did not expect a bad season, last year. Calling it "the cliff" was wrong, but it was t5he beginning of the down slide brought on by our inability to keep or replace Kimbrel, Kelly, Nunez and Pom. What caused that "inability?" It was the trading away of too many cost-controlled young players/prospects and the over-reliance of moderate to big ticket free agent signings. This created the writing on the wall that many here denied was there.

 

Maybe the term "cliff" was and is hyperbole, and I often said I didn't think we'd ever get real bad as long as we kept spending just under the tax line, but the downturn is real and it is now. It wasn't a weak argument, then and it isn't now either.

 

The system has changed to make it harder to spend your way to greatness, in fact it hampers high spending teams. Fans can keep saying, "Henry can spend enough to get us what we need," but the fact is is won't forever. Our history was to spend big, at times, go over the line, here and there, but we always had times where we lowered spending. It wasn't a weak argument to predict we'd do that again, especially after spending more than we ever did, only to see us miss the playoffs by a pretty wide margin.

 

The rebuild is here. We will try to be somewhat competitive, this year, so I'm fine with saying this is not a cliff, and we were wrong using that term, but the reality is we just traded Betts and Price for pre-arb players and prospects. Call it whatever you want, but at least admit some of anti-cliff people got it horribly wrong, too.

[moonslav59]

i would expect any team that traded for a $27MM 1 year rental to make that same public statement. that doesnt make it honest though.

 

It could be 100% honest but not happen.

[mvp 78]

You're right, the team we had on paper should not have produced that poor of a record. I did not expect a bad season, last year. Calling it "the cliff" was wrong, but it was t5he beginning of the down slide brought on by our inability to keep or replace Kimbrel, Kelly, Nunez and Pom. What caused that "inability?" It was the trading away of too many cost-controlled young players/prospects and the over-reliance of moderate to big ticket free agent signings. This created the writing on the wall that many here denied was there.

 

Maybe the term "cliff" was and is hyperbole, and I often said I didn't think we'd ever get real bad as long as we kept spending just under the tax line, but the downturn is real and it is now. It wasn't a weak argument, then and it isn't now either.

 

The system has changed to make it harder to spend your way to greatness, in fact it hampers high spending teams. Fans can keep saying, "Henry can spend enough to get us what we need," but the fact is is won't forever. Our history was to spend big, at times, go over the line, here and there, but we always had times where we lowered spending. It wasn't a weak argument to predict we'd do that again, especially after spending more than we ever did, only to see us miss the playoffs by a pretty wide margin.

 

The rebuild is here. We will try to be somewhat competitive, this year, so I'm fine with saying this is not a cliff, and we were wrong using that term, but the reality is we just traded Betts and Price for pre-arb players and prospects. Call it whatever you want, but at least admit some of anti-cliff people got it horribly wrong, too.

 

DD definitely f***ed up at some point. We'll see if Bloom can minimize the damage. If the Sox are over .500 this year, this whole process should be seen of as speed bump rather than a cliff IMO.

[jung]

The all LH hitting OF could be interesting. NOT!!!

 

If they were as thoughtful, hardworking and as talented as Ted Williams it might be but of course they are NOT.

 

The Sox probably have to make yet another deal to bring somebody that swings from the Right Side in though they really need to focus on pitching.

[mvp 78]

The all LH hitting OF could be interesting. NOT!!!

 

If they were as thoughtful, hardworking and as talented as Ted Williams it might be but of course they are NOT.

 

The Sox probably have to make yet another deal to bring somebody that swings from the Right Side in though they really need to focus on pitching.

 

So, are we really going to have an all left hand hitting OF for 2020? I guess that might be OK if they were all as thoughtful and hardworking as Ted Williams. But of course NONE OF THEM ARE!

 

Actually I don't think it much matters. 2020 is done before it starts. Could be interesting to see how that effects the gate and viewership for the average fan.

 

I think we found Tommy Timmons from the Sandlot's account guys.

[moonslav59]

DD definitely f***ed up at some point. We'll see if Bloom can minimize the damage. If the Sox are over .500 this year, this whole process should be seen of as speed bump rather than a cliff IMO.

 

I'm fine with calling it a "speed bump" not a cliff, but my point was about those, here, that felt we'd never hit a speed bump, because Henry could and would continue to spend whatever is needed to keep us winning.

[mvp 78]

I'm fine with calling it a "speed bump" not a cliff, but my point was about those, here, that felt we'd never hit a speed bump, because Henry could and would continue to spend whatever is needed to keep us winning.

 

If you had sold it as a speed bump rather than a cliff, I would have been on board. They are two completely different things.

[moonslav59]

If you had sold it as a speed bump rather than a cliff, I would have been on board. They are two completely different things.

 

I often said the word "cliff" might be hyperbole, and that as long as we kept spending near the tax line, we might never be sub .500.

 

To me, with such high expectations for 2019, it felt like worse than a cliff.

[mvp 78]

I often said the word "cliff" might be hyperbole, and that as long as we kept spending near the tax line, we might never be sub .500.

 

To me, with such high expectations for 2019, it felt like worse than a cliff.

 

It wasn't the first time in the world that a defending WS champion just ate s*** without a real reason.

[notin]

The all LH hitting OF could be interesting. NOT!!!

 

If they were as thoughtful, hardworking and as talented as Ted Williams it might be but of course they are NOT.

 

The Sox probably have to make yet another deal to bring somebody that swings from the Right Side in though they really need to focus on pitching.

 

 

Yes. Yasiel Puig..

[notin]

Why should he "make it work" for 300, when he can get 400? You think he should take 100 MILLION DOLLARS less because fans in Boston realllllllly like him????? HAHAHA GTFO

 

 

No they don't.

 

Well, you’re the one who cited how important Boston was to him.

 

No one knows who will sign Betts next year. But if the Sox didn’t reset the tax limit, no chance they were going to pay $79million for a $40mill contract. Not realizing the Sox have a budget despite them repeatedly acting on it is one thing, but pretending they need to ignore the league penalties as well is another.

 

In case you missed it, the Sox spent A TON of money the past couple seasons . They can spend a lot, but not an infinite amount. And Henry doesn’t want to pay the 95% tax rate. Shocking, huh?

 

Now the Sox have reset the taxes so they can spend over with no penalty. They certainly are the type of big spender Betts will land with. They might not get him. They might settle for Trevor Bauer instead. Some surprise team might offer Mookie $480million. But Boston is at least in the running. Had they kept him, no way could they resign him at all. Worst case scenario is they list ONE YEAR of Mookie Betts, and his departure would have left this team with a lot of expensive contracts for aging and injured players and no talent on the farm system to help out. This team was doomed to suck for 3 years minimum, maybe longer.

 

I loved Mookie but this trade needed to happen for the good of the team...

[mvp 78]

Well, you’re the one who cited how important Boston was to him.

 

No one knows who will sign Betts next year. But if the Sox didn’t reset the tax limit, no chance they were going to pay $79million for a $40mill contract. Not realizing the Sox have a budget despite them repeatedly acting on it is one thing, but pretending they need to ignore the league penalties as well is another.

 

In case you missed it, the Sox spent A TON of money the past couple seasons . They can spend a lot, but not an infinite amount. And Henry doesn’t want to pay the 95% tax rate. Shocking, huh?

 

Now the Sox have reset the taxes so they can spend over with no penalty. They certainly are the type of big spender Betts will land with. They might not get him. They might settle for Trevor Bauer instead. Some surprise team might offer Mookie $480million. But Boston is at least in the running. Had they kept him, no way could they resign him at all. Worst case scenario is they list ONE YEAR of Mookie Betts, and his departure would have left this team with a lot of expensive contracts for aging and injured players and no talent on the farm system to help out. This team was doomed to suck for 3 years minimum, maybe longer.

 

I loved Mookie but this trade needed to happen for the good of the team...

 

Nooooooooooooooo.... One Schilling was enough.

[moonslav59]

It wasn't the first time in the world that a defending WS champion just ate s*** without a real reason.

 

Yes, the Giants are famous for it.

[notin]

Nooooooooooooooo.... One Schilling was enough.

 

That kind of stuff doesn’t bother me. I didn’t hang out with Schilling and have no plans to hang with Bauer...

[mvp 78]

That kind of stuff doesn’t bother me. I didn’t hang out with Schilling and have no plans to hang with Bauer...

 

Lucky you!

[notin]

Lucky you!

 

Worried about Bauer ruining your family game nights the way Schilling did?

[mvp 78]

Worried about Bauer ruining your family game nights the way Schilling did?

 

Yes. Schilling would always directly grab the marbles with his hands when playing Hungry Hungry Hippos and claiming "free market". He also would try to distract everyone by coloring on his sock with marker/ketchup. Cheater.

[notin]

Yes. Schilling would always directly grab the marbles with his hands when playing Hungry Hungry Hippos and claiming "free market". He also would try to distract everyone by coloring on his sock with marker/ketchup. Cheater.

 

Yeah. You’re not the first person to tell me those stories about him...

[mvp 78]

Yeah. You’re not the first person to tell me those stories about him...

 

The last straw was when we were playing Sneaky Snacky Squirrel. He's a bad hombre.

[DerekJackson]

The last straw was when we were playing Sneaky Snacky Squirrel. He's a bad hombre.

 

I just bought a vintage Rock 'em Sock 'em Robots

[S5Dewey]

I think the Dodgers will make an offer but I have no idea how Mookie will respond.

 

Mookie & I aren't drinkin' buds or anything but I'd be surprised if he signs anything involving an extension. He's said ever since Day #1 that he wants to test the FA market. He may believe that whatever the Dodgers offer is the minimum he'll have to sign for so why not go for all of it?

 

Also... I'm not sure the Sox want to - or should - sign him for what he wants. He's a great player but it will hamstring the financial end of the team for the duration of his contract. If JH has a spending limit - and he's shown that he does - we could end up being the A's.

[moonslav59]

Mookie & I aren't drinkin' buds or anything but I'd be surprised if he signs anything involving an extension. He's said ever since Day #1 that he wants to test the FA market. He may believe that whatever the Dodgers offer is the minimum he'll have to sign for so why not go for all of it?

 

Also... I'm not sure the Sox want to - or should - sign him for what he wants. He's a great player but it will hamstring the financial end of the team for the duration of his contract. If JH has a spending limit - and he's shown that he does - we could end up being the A's.

 

Exactly. If were never going to pay him near what he will end up getting, this was the right thing to do.

 

If we plan on spending large and long to have Betts long term, then resetting gives us the best opportunity to do so.

 

Either way you view the issue, dealing him made the most sense.

 

Does anybody really think we should have kept him, not reset, then pay him $35M+ per year plus a 50% tax for at least 1 year and probably many more, if the idea was to stay highly competitive for several more years?

 

The taxes could change a $350M/10 deal to $520M/10 or more, if surtaxes occur.

[jung]

Exactly. If were never going to pay him near what he will end up getting, this was the right thing to do.

 

If we plan on spending large and long to have Betts long term, then resetting gives us the best opportunity to do so.

 

Either way you view the issue, dealing him made the most sense.

 

Does anybody really think we should have kept him, not reset, then pay him $35M+ per year plus a 50% tax for at least 1 year and probably many more, if the idea was to stay highly competitive for several more years?

 

The taxes could change a $350M/10 deal to $520M/10 or more, if surtaxes occur.

 

Sox got a WS out of it but boxed themselves into a corner between 2017 and 2019 that there was no real good way out of other than moving Mookie. I don't see much chance of bringing him back to Boston. Boston won't IMO pay him what he can get elsewhere. But at least there is some hope now that we can get on track in the near term. Does not take much to get on track given the sludge that is MLB these days.

[S5Dewey]

Exactly. If were never going to pay him near what he will end up getting, this was the right thing to do.

 

If we plan on spending large and long to have Betts long term, then resetting gives us the best opportunity to do so.

 

Either way you view the issue, dealing him made the most sense.

 

Does anybody really think we should have kept him, not reset, then pay him $35M+ per year plus a 50% tax for at least 1 year and probably many more, if the idea was to stay highly competitive for several more years?

 

The taxes could change a $350M/10 deal to $520M/10 or more, if surtaxes occur.

 

The clincher in ^that^ was "if the idea was to stay highly competitive for several more years". No, that wasn't going to happen. We weren't going to be able to keep him for 2020 and be highly competitive in the future too. However, I did explore the idea of keeping Mookie & Price for one more year to make a last-gasp run at a successful season in 2020. While that's something I could have lived with I have to acknowledge that what's happened was the smarter thing to have done. Again, what you want vs. what you need. Ugh.

[mvp 78]

The taxes could change a $350M/10 deal to $520M/10 or more, if surtaxes occur.

 

You think they'd never be able to reset if they re-signed Mookie?

 

I bet there are some massive adjustments to CBT with the next bargaining agreement.