2018 Red Sox cheating scandal

[mvp 78]

the way the sox relayed the signs from 2b is not the issue. this is part of the game.

the problem is with the way that the Sox decoded the signs - using video during the game. this is what is against the rules.

since kinsler also admitted dudes were using video to decode signs we are f***ed. i expect the same punishment as houston received (it would have been less if not for apple watch. thanks Pedroia!)

the next 2 years: 1st and 2nd round picks gone.

 

The same punishment would be a suspension for the bench coach though?

[notin]

the way the sox relayed the signs from 2b is not the issue. this is part of the game.

the problem is with the way that the Sox decoded the signs - using video during the game. this is what is against the rules.

since kinsler also admitted dudes were using video to decode signs we are f***ed. i expect the same punishment as houston received (it would have been less if not for apple watch. thanks Pedroia!)

the next 2 years: 1st and 2nd round picks gone.

 

Kinsler thought was the Sox did was no big deal and he mostly talked about the video room being used for players to fix their personal issues, and if they decoded the signs in the process, so be it. But he said it was not an elaborate program like "Codebreaker" that the Astros used, and really made it sound like it was more of an incidental occurence that every team does...

[Slasher9]

Kinsler thought was the Sox did was no big deal and he mostly talked about the video room being used for players to fix their personal issues, and if they decoded the signs in the process, so be it. But he said it was not an elaborate program like "Codebreaker" that the Astros used, and really made it sound like it was more of an incidental occurence that every team does...

 

this is most likely 100% true. but it is also 100% against the rules that MLB put forth after the #applewatch fiasco. (using electronic equipment in-game).

don't ask don't tell applies here. unfortunately people are asking and players are telling.

[notin]

this is most likely 100% true. but it is also 100% against the rules that MLB put forth after the #applewatch fiasco. (using electronic equipment in-game).

don't ask don't tell applies here. unfortunately people are asking and players are telling.

 

No. Everyone should just spill what they know. How many more times do you want this scandal to resurface?

[mvp 78]

No. Everyone should just spill what they know. How many more times do you want this scandal to resurface?

 

As a fan of the Patriots, I never want to hear about cheating allegations again. It's very tiresome.

[notin]

As a fan of the Patriots, I never want to hear about cheating allegations again. It's very tiresome.

 

Especially ones as poorly reported and mishandled by the league as Deflate Gate was. If you read the report, the most obvious conclusion should have been "NFL officials have no idea how to use pressure gauges."

[notin]

this is most likely 100% true. but it is also 100% against the rules that MLB put forth after the #applewatch fiasco. (using electronic equipment in-game).

don't ask don't tell applies here. unfortunately people are asking and players are telling.

 

It is, but even Kinsler thinks what the Sox did was minimal at best and doesn't think the league will find much. It is possible as second offenders the Sox will get the hammer, but also possible that players like Kinsler (now retired and with nothing to lose) will make the case that what the Red Sox did was business as usual. All teams do have video feeds and nearly every player uses them for legal reasons, but if he is right and players catch the signs as have a "if I can figure it out, great. If not, no biggie" attitude about it, that might be illegal, but it is not premeditated like an actual Codebreaker algorithm employed by the Astros.

 

And when does the Yankee investigation start? In no way do I believe that every single scrub the Yankees grab has a miraculous breakout year based on legitimate talent alone. "Oh, it's just good scouting. The Yankees liked his 'exit velocity' " or whatever. Yeah, because other teams don't look at exit velocity...

[jacksonianmarch]

Lol, “our team cheated so yours must have too!” Great excuse. If Kinsler is being accurate, then this isn’t as bad as what the Astros did, but as a second offense and for the commish to save face, it sounds as if the punishment could be even more severe.

[mvp 78]

It is, but even Kinsler thinks what the Sox did was minimal at best and doesn't think the league will find much. It is possible as second offenders the Sox will get the hammer, but also possible that players like Kinsler (now retired and with nothing to lose) will make the case that what the Red Sox did was business as usual. All teams do have video feeds and nearly every player uses them for legal reasons, but if he is right and players catch the signs as have a "if I can figure it out, great. If not, no biggie" attitude about it, that might be illegal, but it is not premeditated like an actual Codebreaker algorithm employed by the Astros.

 

And when does the Yankee investigation start? In no way do I believe that every single scrub the Yankees grab has a miraculous breakout year based on legitimate talent alone. "Oh, it's just good scouting. The Yankees liked his 'exit velocity' " or whatever. Yeah, because other teams don't look at exit velocity...

 

Get rid of the video rooms and ipads.

 

[notin]

Get rid of the video rooms and ipads.

 

Or just get rid of using hand signs. This isn't 1880 any more...

[mvp 78]

Lol, “our team cheated so yours must have too!” Great excuse. If Kinsler is being accurate, then this isn’t as bad as what the Astros did, but as a second offense and for the commish to save face, it sounds as if the punishment could be even more severe.

 

Then why isn't Roenicke being suspended? Doesn't seem more severe to me.

[mvp 78]

Or just get rid of using hand signs. This isn't 1880 any more...

 

How would the communication work? Have the manager call all pitches through a headset? Give batters a headset too? What about fielders?

 

I'm ok with it if that's the direction they go in.

[notin]

How would the communication work? Have the manager call all pitches through a headset? Give batters a headset too? What about fielders?

 

I'm ok with it if that's the direction they go in.

 

What's wrong with earpieces? How many fielders can even see the signs anyway?

[mvp 78]

What's wrong with earpieces? How many fielders can even see the signs anyway?

 

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it. I'm just wondering how it would work out.

[notin]

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it. I'm just wondering how it would work out.

 

Manager or pitching coach calls a pitch into the earpiece. If the pitcher doesn't shake it off, then away we go...

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

No. Everyone should just spill what they know. How many more times do you want this scandal to resurface?

 

I'm sure hitters on every single team at every single professional level -- given immunity -- would admit to doing the exact same thing as Kinsler. Analyzing video is part of the modern game. No players -- no matter what they say -- consider looking at video as cheating (I don't care if a guy was a choir boy, his dad's a reverend and his mother is named Teresa).

 

It also doesn't matter to them that Manfred told them not to, because he also gave them access to video in the first place, allowing tech in the dugout, bullpen, clubhouse and everywhere else. Such hypocrisy is probably what led to their disrespect for the commish in the first place, before he started dissing their trophy.

 

I think what guys are really pissed about is the disclosure that Houston's entire organization devised a devious system that the Astros players blatantly bought into, banging away and acting cocky in the process.

[mvp 78]

Manager or pitching coach calls a pitch into the earpiece. If the pitcher doesn't shake it off, then away we go...

 

No more shaking off.

[mvp 78]

I'm sure hitters on every single team at every single professional level -- given immunity -- would admit to doing the exact same thing as Kinsler. Analyzing video is part of the modern game. No players -- no matter what they say -- consider looking at video as cheating (I don't care if a guy was a choir boy, his dad's a reverend and his mother is named Teresa).

 

It also doesn't matter to them that Manfred told them not to, because he also gave them access to video in the first place, allowing tech in the dugout, bullpen, clubhouse and everywhere else. Such hypocrisy is probably what led to their disrespect for the commish in the first place, before he started dissing their trophy.

 

I think what guys are really pissed about is the disclosure that Houston's entire organization devised a devious system that the Astros players blatantly bought into, banging away and acting cocky in the process.

 

I think it was because the Stros system was specifically designed from a live camera feed. The Sox were just using the baserunner on second to stare at the catcher's fingers. Does seem a little different to me. Like if the Sox bench had figured out the 3b coach's signs and relayed those to the players, would that be illegal?

[Slasher9]

What's wrong with earpieces? How many fielders can even see the signs anyway?

 

the only critical ones are middle infield with a man on 1b.....(bag coverage on stolen base)....

[Elktonnick]

the only critical ones are middle infield with a man on 1b.....(bag coverage on stolen base)....

If we are going to robot umpires and eliminate signs and signals because it isn't 1880 why not automate the entire game. Let's have robot players or better yet play the whole game as a video game on a huge gigantic video screen. Owners wouldn't worry about the luxury tax. Why have live human beings involved at all. (Sarcasm alert)

[notin]

the only critical ones are middle infield with a man on 1b.....(bag coverage on stolen base)....

 

I think they largely have the bag coverage worked out long before. It's not like there are a lot of options.

 

I could see the 1B needing to know when the call is for a pick off attempt or pitch out, but I don't think he has a clear view unless that sign is handled outside the normal sequence....

[Slasher9]

If we are going to robot umpires and eliminate signs and signals because it isn't 1880 why not automate the entire game. Let's have robot players or better yet play the whole game as a video game on a huge gigantic video screen. Owners wouldn't worry about the luxury tax. Why have live human beings involved at all. (Sarcasm alert)

 

i wonder how hard a robot pitcher could throw? we have a machine around the way that we have ramped up to 115MPH pitches. its absolutely insane.

[Slasher9]

I think they largely have the bag coverage worked out long before. It's not like there are a lot of options.

 

i will politely disagree on this one. the mouth open/mouth closed sign is for the most part still given between the middle infielders on each pitch with the coverage usually dependent on FB vs offspeed pitch.

[notin]

If we are going to robot umpires and eliminate signs and signals because it isn't 1880 why not automate the entire game. Let's have robot players or better yet play the whole game as a video game on a huge gigantic video screen. Owners wouldn't worry about the luxury tax. Why have live human beings involved at all. (Sarcasm alert)

 

Yeah!! A slippery slope argument!! Those are NEVER stupid... (also sarcasm)

[notin]

i will politely disagree on this one. the mouth open/mouth closed sign is for the most part still given between the middle infielders on each pitch with the coverage usually dependent on FB vs offspeed pitch.

 

I think a system can still be worked out there without them relying on signals. Maybe they can get earpieces, too...

[mvp 78]

Yeah!! A slippery slope argument!! Those are NEVER stupid... (also sarcasm)

 

At least we know what the conversation is at the kids' table these days.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

i will politely disagree on this one. the mouth open/mouth closed sign is for the most part still given between the middle infielders on each pitch with the coverage usually dependent on FB vs offspeed pitch.

 

I was also thinking that, but nowadays the second baseman spends half his time standing in right field, so it's usually the shortstop. It can't be the third baseman, because that would leave the whole left side open to a bunt -- and nobody wants to see a bunt because major leaguers can't bunt anymore.

[Bellhorn04]

Lol, “our team cheated so yours must have too!” Great excuse. If Kinsler is being accurate, then this isn’t as bad as what the Astros did, but as a second offense and for the commish to save face, it sounds as if the punishment could be even more severe.

 

If Manfred comes down hard on the Sox for doing what Kinsler described, he will be setting a disastrous precedent. Because you can almost bet every team was doing that much.

[notin]

If Manfred comes down hard on the Sox for doing what Kinsler described, he will be setting a disastrous precedent. Because you can almost bet every team was doing that much.

 

And he would have to come down equally hard on the second offender Yankees....

[Bellhorn04]

And he would have to come down equally hard on the second offender Yankees....

 

I suspect one of the reasons the Red Sox investigation is taking so long is that Manfred now knows this won't be the last one.