Red Sox have fired GM Dave Dombrowski

[Kimmi]

Nobody gives a s*** about a farm system until it is needed. Nobody batted an eye when DD dealt away all those players, most of which didn't make as much of an impact as the guys brought in. Listen, I would say his deals were winners. His losses were that he didn't know when to say stop. He brings guys in, breaks and resets the market with them when the time comes and essentially rides his best teams until they retire. It leads to incredible success and then incredibly overpaid players who cannot play anymore. You needed your farm this year. You needed a pitcher to step in for Sale and Price and Eo. You had nobody. Everyone else got better, the sox got worse and thinner. That is on DD. That is why he is likely heading into retirement

 

Please. Pay attention.

[Elktonnick]

Does anyone else see the uncanny similarity to the departure of our previous DD, Dan Duquette?

 

Also very similar to the way Tito was let go.

 

I think because we fans see so much wrong with the club we think ownership sees and thinks the same. I watched Gammons interview. He clearly was holding back some of the more spicy details. The sense I got from Gammons was that DD would have been allowed to finish out the year but some one got their back up last night and the decision was made right then and there in a relatively hasty fashion. Apparently leadership style has been an issue for sometime and there were rumors last year but the euphoria of the big season pushed everything to the back burner but DD never got the extension immediately after the big win which while not totally unusual certainly sent the signal that ownership had concerns.

 

Many of the talking heads on MLB today expressed concerns that firing DD after firing Cherrington and their mishandling of Francona's firing is going to complicate Sox hiring a new chief of baseball operations. Word is that the Sox would love to get Mike Hazen but that may not be possible.

[moonslav59]

I was one of the first, here, to call for replacing DD.

 

He's just not the GM you want for a rebuild.

 

I didn't know about the trouble between him and ownership, and that may be the major reason for his firing, but I hope we pick someone with a good history of building a farm and developing top young pitchers.

 

Ben got a lot more leeway, but he had a strong farm, and I don't think they held the Tito firing and Bobby V hiring over his head. Apparently, that was on Larry.

 

I can see how people can be shocked how a guy can bring a team to 3 straight division wins for the first time ending with a ring just 10 short months ago, but I'm not shocked at all. It's a great business decision, and that's what makes Henry the best owner we've ever had.

[Elktonnick]

I was one of the first, here, to call for replacing DD.

 

He's just not the GM you want for a rebuild.

 

I didn't know about the trouble between him and ownership, and that may be the major reason for his firing, but I hope we pick someone with a good history of building a farm and developing top young pitchers.

 

Ben got a lot more leeway, but he had a strong farm, and I don't think they held the Tito firing and Bobby V hiring over his head. Apparently, that was on Larry.

 

I can see how people can be shocked how a guy can bring a team to 3 straight division wins for the first time ending with a ring just 10 short months ago, but I'm not shocked at all. It's a great business decision, and that's what makes Henry the best owner we've ever had.

 

Reading John Henry's bio one gets the clear impression that he doesn't let subjectivity color his business decisions.

[moonslav59]

MLBTRs reports the Sox will be over the max line, this year. I don't see it.

 

For one, the team exceeded the upper level of the luxury tax ($237MM) in 2018, and are again in position to exceed the new upper threshold of $246MM this season. As per Roster Resource, the Red Sox have a projected luxury tax number of over $257.7MM, putting them in line to face another maximum penalty — a 75 percent tax on the overage, as well as a drop of ten spots for their highest pick of the 2020 draft.

[moonslav59]

Reading John Henry's bio one gets the clear impression that he doesn't let subjectivity color his business decisions.

 

That's probably a major reason he's so successful and the best we've ever had.

[moonslav59]

I hope we keep Cora and Devers.

 

Others should not be traded while their stock is low.

 

Others I want to keep, but the years of team control may not overlap the length of the rebuild, of if it's just by one year, a deal may be worth exploring.

[jung]

MLBTRs reports the Sox will be over the max line, this year. I don't see it.

 

For one, the team exceeded the upper level of the luxury tax ($237MM) in 2018, and are again in position to exceed the new upper threshold of $246MM this season. As per Roster Resource, the Red Sox have a projected luxury tax number of over $257.7MM, putting them in line to face another maximum penalty — a 75 percent tax on the overage, as well as a drop of ten spots for their highest pick of the 2020 draft.

 

Sigh.....thats great news....NOT

[jacksonianmarch]

I was one of the first, here, to call for replacing DD.

 

He's just not the GM you want for a rebuild.

 

I didn't know about the trouble between him and ownership, and that may be the major reason for his firing, but I hope we pick someone with a good history of building a farm and developing top young pitchers.

 

Ben got a lot more leeway, but he had a strong farm, and I don't think they held the Tito firing and Bobby V hiring over his head. Apparently, that was on Larry.

 

I can see how people can be shocked how a guy can bring a team to 3 straight division wins for the first time ending with a ring just 10 short months ago, but I'm not shocked at all. It's a great business decision, and that's what makes Henry the best owner we've ever had.

 

Yes, you were. Credit where it is due. I think some people called you out on that

[jacksonianmarch]

Reading John Henry's bio one gets the clear impression that he doesn't let subjectivity color his business decisions.

 

You don't become a billionaire without having the ability to remove emotion from your business decisions

[moonslav59]

You don't become a billionaire without having the ability to remove emotion from your business decisions

 

Unless your daddy "only" gave you a "1 million dollar loan."

[FredLynn]

Getting rid of Cora would be a mistake, IMO.

 

Cora also had a bad year. I would give him one more year, but I would not be surprised if they canned him too.

[moonslav59]

Sigh.....thats great news....NOT

 

I'm not sure it's true. I've picked over the budget several times and think we stayed under the max line.

[FredLynn]

Reading John Henry's bio one gets the clear impression that he doesn't let subjectivity color his business decisions.

 

Henry is not an automaton. Unless his middle name is "Data" emotions and some degree of subjectivity will always affect his decisions. I think he is calculating, but certainly not free from emotions and subjectivity. And unlike Kimmi's stated opinion, I don't think this was a panic move. He just thought it was time for a change, that DD isn't the GM to lead a rebuild.

[Bellhorn04]

MLBTRs reports the Sox will be over the max line, this year. I don't see it.

 

For one, the team exceeded the upper level of the luxury tax ($237MM) in 2018, and are again in position to exceed the new upper threshold of $246MM this season. As per Roster Resource, the Red Sox have a projected luxury tax number of over $257.7MM, putting them in line to face another maximum penalty — a 75 percent tax on the overage, as well as a drop of ten spots for their highest pick of the 2020 draft.

 

Cot's Contracts has us at $242 million. It's hard to figure where Roster Resource gets its luxury tax numbers from.

 

I think Cot's has the right number.

[moonslav59]

Cot's Contracts has us at $242 million. It's hard to figure where Roster Resource gets its luxury tax numbers from.

 

I think Cot's has the right number.

 

I've picked over every AVV, added the player benefit number and we come out under by $2-4M every time.

[MADSTORK]

Dombrowski handed out contracts like a drunken sailor and over paid in trades but was far from the problem.

 

Until Henry Acknowledges that the Minor League Developmental System needs a complete overhaul the mad spending will continue because of it.

 

Continue the house cleaning by getting rid of Ben Crockett and camera boy Abraham in the Minor League Front Office !

 

Call Billy in Oakland not named Beane for the GM position!

 

Sandoval money off the books. Buy out Pedroia with his retirement get creative and there is your Betts money

[jacksonianmarch]

Stork, a new GM is going to come into Boston and essentially wipe clean the entire baseball ops department.

[Swiharts Ghost]

Dombrowski handed out contracts like a drunken sailor and over paid in trades but was far from the problem.

 

Until Henry Acknowledges that the Minor League Developmental System needs a complete overhaul the mad spending will continue because of it.

 

Continue the house cleaning by getting rid of Ben Crockett and camera boy Abraham in the Minor League Front Office !

 

Call Billy in Oakland not named Beane for the GM position!

 

Sandoval money off the books. Buy out Pedroia with his retirement get creative and there is your Betts money

 

Well said and overdue .

[Slasher9]

Henry is not an automaton. Unless his middle name is "Data" emotions and some degree of subjectivity will always affect his decisions. I think he is calculating, but certainly not free from emotions and subjectivity. And unlike Kimmi's stated opinion, I don't think this was a panic move. He just thought it was time for a change, that DD isn't the GM to lead a rebuild.

 

My nickname for him since he purchased the team has been commander data...

[a700hitter]

I hope that we don't get a GM who specializes in last place teams after firing a guy who won 3 division titles in a row.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

This does signal some kind of shift/rebuild is going to take place. There is speculation that Martinez might opt out--that would be a big help. Kick in millions and move David Price's contract. Trade Betts. You probably keep Sale, hoping he will excel next year and then trade him at the deadline. Get under the luxury tax penalty and spend the next 2-3 years rebuilding.

 

If you decide to go into a multiyear rebuild mode, you probably move Bogaerts too.

Edited September 10, 2019 by Fan_since_Boggs

[Oscars]

This does signal some kind of shift/rebuild is going to take place. There is speculation that Martinez might opt out--that would be a big help. Kick in millions and move David Price's contract. Trade Betts. You probably keep Sale, hoping he will excel next year and then trade him at the deadline. Get under the luxury tax penalty and spend the next 2-3 years rebuilding.

 

If you decide to go into a multiyear rebuild mode, you probably move Bogaerts too.

 

The Sox are not the Royals, that will never happen with this ownership group

[oldtimer]

This does signal some kind of shift/rebuild is going to take place. There is speculation that Martinez might opt out--that would be a big help. Kick in millions and move David Price's contract. Trade Betts. You probably keep Sale, hoping he will excel next year and then trade him at the deadline. Get under the luxury tax penalty and spend the next 2-3 years rebuilding.

 

If you decide to go into a multiyear rebuild mode, you probably move Bogaerts too.

 

This is plain silly. The Sox need to develop a mission statement if they don't already have one. I would think it involves resetting the salary structure to below the 1st tier of the competitive balance tax while keeping most or all of their young core players and trying to remain as competitive as possible. This while starting the process of rebuilding a farm system which emphasizes player development and pitching development in particular.

 

Achieving that will require letting underperforming contracts play out if they can't be traded away at a reasonable cost (probably can't) and making hardheaded decisions about every facet of the team. Coaches, Managers, players evaluated on performance. No room for sentimentality here.

 

Clearly it will require fillling some of the field and pitching positions from the minor leagues or with low cost acquisitions. Maybe a couple of diamonds in the rough with come out of that. I hope so as young players can bring some fire that seems to be lacking. Managerial and player leadership is required. Lets see someone who bangs his bat on the dugout or shows some signs of refusing to lose.

 

We have some very good players now so lets mold them and add to them over time. Last night for instance we had a good starting pitching performance but couldn't put together a single run, despite 3 hits from JBJ and 2 by Vaz. Sad showing again.

[cp176]

I hope that we don't get a GM who specializes in last place teams after firing a guy who won 3 division titles in a row.

 

Agree here - DD is getting punched around pretty well here for sure but John Henry gets no free pass from me. he controls the $. To assume that DD didn't have henry's good blessing with respect to every contract that so many of our resident professionals think were just terrible, is to be absolutely blind. It is absolute ******** to try to paint this GM as some sort of culprit for doing the job that he was hired to do.

[cp176]

Unless your daddy "only" gave you a "1 million dollar loan."

 

Interesting - not sneaking this one by me.

[jung]

I don't think the Sox will find takers for the pitcher's contracts and frankly I have little doubt that the Sale extension and the Nate signing and Pearce signing really torqued Henry off. Sale and Nate for their long term problems, Pearce because that was an absurdly foolish signing proven so as soon as Peace showed up in the Spring. It was Henry that dug us out of the Crawford mess and now his current Pres of Ops draws him "right back in again" to a circumstance that ties the team's hands.

 

There is a good deal of flotsam on this team, players not necessarily making the biggest money in MLB but players making more than they are worth and it is the burden of those contracts as much as the big contracts that will drag on the new Pres of Ops efforts.

 

Thank God Pearce will just be gone and Mitchie-poo gone and Porcello gone. This is what happens when you drain off the farm. Instead of bringing up young players that can fill those rolls quite adequately you end up hiring middling vets for top money to do effectively the same job. These are fill in pieces to a championship effort and nothing more. the Pres and GM have to frame those contracts and look for acquisitions that fit that model, not keep them for multiple years like team binkies. Does Bill Belechick fall in love with his championship season fill ins? Does he even keep them around?

 

Frankly, I think the Sox will be forced to trade Mookie as I simply do not think he will re-sign here before FA and I doubt we will outbid for him either. Henry probably sees that train rolling down the tracks right at him as well.

 

We have to keep Bogarts and Devers. Bogarts because SS is a lynchpin position on a baseball team and Bogarts impact on Rafi is simply too great to be ignored. You have to keep the earth from moving under your feet everywhere. I would suggest that the left side of the infield is where we should not let the world shift under our feet.

 

I don't think JD will opt out. He has too many issues and half of MLB is closed to him as he is now purely a DH.

 

IMO virtually everybody but the unmovable contracts are up for grabs. Other than X and Rafi I would try to protect Beni even with all his shortcomings and Vaz even with all his shortcomings. Would like to keep Holt if possible. Teams can pick over the rest of them for my money. Make me the right deal for DHern or Barnes or Work or Chavis and you can have them.

 

The entire concept of a pitching staff both rotation and pen is in flux and utter chaos thanks to MLB's ridiculous machinations. So I am not sure a GM could make a "right" move there if he tried!

Edited September 10, 2019 by jung

[jad]

I don't understand the "move everyone except Devers" hysteria. You have players who are having excellent years and earning every nickel of their salaries: Boggaerts, Vasquez, Holt, Martinez. Mookie is also doing fine, just not MVP level. So is Benintendi. Why would you get rid of them? hoping, say, the depleted farm magically produces young players like ... say: Boggaerts, Vasquez, Mookie, Benintendi, Holt etc. ... and that the salaries of Sale, Price, and Castillo just as magically disappear, as of course will that of Pedroia, who will be happy not to have the millions in his guaranteed contract). Edited September 10, 2019 by jad

[jacksonianmarch]

It’s about climate as well. You’re in a division with the Yanks and Rays, two teams with considerable depth and with NYY, far more financial flexibility while also being way inferior to them talent/production wise. You just came off three straight division titles and a WS title, so you didn’t get cheated. Create a realistic goal season based on the down phase of your rivals. I’d say 3 years, 2020, 2021, 2022. So by 2023, you’d expect to be a top dog while the Yanks are dealing with less depth and far more financial restraints. Anyone set to hit the market within that window should be moved. The earlier you move them, the better the return. Anyone under control for 4 years or more can be your core. Devers and Bogey fit that to a T

[Bellhorn04]

I don't understand the "move everyone except Devers" hysteria. You have players who are having excellent years and earning every nickel of their salaries: Boggaerts, Vasquez, Holt, Martinez. Mookie is also doing fine, just not MVP level. So is Benintendi. Why would you get rid of them? hoping, say, the depleted farm magically produces young players like ... say: Boggaerts, Vasquez, Mookie, Benintendi, Holt etc. ... and that the salaries of Sale, Price, and Castillo just as magically disappear, as of course will that of Pedroia, who will be happy not to have the millions in his guaranteed contract).

 

Some folks really need to calm down. Just because DD is being replaced doesn't mean we're unloading the whole team.