Red Sox have fired GM Dave Dombrowski

[Bellhorn04]

Obviously we won't know unless or until the Red Sox are more forthcoming. Russo specifically mentioned the fact that the Sox did not do a major new conference which he suggests supports the firing was based on leadership style and personal behavior. If I remember correctly Shaughnessy's original article intimated that there were personal style issues with Dombrowski and the rest of the front office.

 

Shaughnessy's original article did mention that DD seemed to have become cut off from the organization outside of Larussa and Wren.

 

But also cited Sale and Eovaldi as baseball reasons.

[Larry33]

Another one bites the dust and another one gone and another one gone. What else is new another name to add to list of people that the Red Sox will have to pay for not being here. Now will come the agony of defeat with no real answer for the future with all hands empty. The Red Sox now enters a new era of rebuild which DD wasn't good at now the new guy will have his hand full.

[harmony]

surprises are about to become more common. GM's want their own man in the dugout. And I wouldn't give a nickel for the chances of Sale. Porcello or Price beinmg around next year. Moreland, Bradley and several of the BP pitchers also may have some trade battle.

 

The off-season is going to be interesting!

 

This team is having trouble ending up with A WINNING HOME RECORDS. When was the last time THAT happened?

The 2012 and 2014 Red Sox were 34-47 (.420) at home:

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/BOS/2012-schedule-scores.shtml

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/BOS/2014-schedule-scores.shtml

[Bellhorn04]

Another one bites the dust and another one gone and another one gone. What else is new another name to add to list of people that the Red Sox will have to pay for not being here. Now will come the agony of defeat with no real answer for the future with all hands empty.

 

Yeah, we'll just have to survive somehow. Can't really complain about the 4 rings since '04 though...

[YastrzemskI]

To fire Dombrowski after winning the World Series last year, John Henry must be absolutely livid about what has been going on this season.

I did not expect this.. especially before the off season. I have to say this. Good for John Henry. This team and the people who run it do not

accept losing. This team's fans expect to win on a consistent basis. That does not mean that the Red Sox need to the win the World Series

every year but they better be in contention (especially with this kind of payroll).

 

The time has come to dust ourselves off and prepare for 2020 and beyond.

 

GO SOX!

[FredLynn]

right. but if we made it to the postseason and had another parade do you think DD is fired?

the reason we are going to make "major changes" and "reset" is because we are missing the playoffs....

 

The "major changes" were inevitable, playoffs or no playoffs. The team simply isn't going to afford to keep the core it has now and add enough players to make them competitive year after year. Betts is going to get paid; Sale and Eovaldi and Bogaerts are already getting paid. The bullpen needs an upgrade; so does the farm system-we cannot trade for marquee players or sign them as FAs forever without an ongoing source of cheap quality labor from our farm system. Now whether the changes had to happen in 2020 or 2021 is up for debate, but eventually they HAD to happen. Like I said, its going to be a sad couple of years for Sox fans I think. Unless you are also a Patriots fan :-)

[jung]

Today on High Heat on the MLB Channel Chris Russo claimed that baseball operations reasons are a cover for the real reasons DD got fired. Chris "Mad Dog" Russo believes that Dombrowski was not fired because of baseball reasons. Russo cites unspecified rumors circulating for more than a year that Dombrowki was fired for his "leadership style and personal behavior ". Simply put he wasn't well liked by most folks within the front office. He pissed people off.

 

Unspecified rumors that some people did not like the just deposed boss. Wow........breaking news. Give me a break.

 

So a guy that brings Henry a WS is fired because some employees don't like his management style. When Russo returns from La La Land, let me know.

 

IMO, Henry's dissatisfaction with DD starts AFTER the WS win with the three deals done at the start of this season regardless of their impact on the actual season itself. It went farther downhill when DD did not replace Kimbrel or Kelly which suggests DD is oblivious as ever when it comes to pens, oh by the way the one component of a MLB team that has gone through a massive change in approach. It went further downhill at the trade deadline and the resultant impact on the team which rightly or wrongly swooned.

 

I should also point out that its not Kennedy that would have been petitioning for public statements from exec management about the team having the talent without addition to make a run. Its not Kennedy that would have petitioned for those public statements and its not Henry either. Neither one would have been petitioning for them. DD would have been petitioning for them. That certainly worked out well. Finally there is the certain knowledge that no matter what was going on with the big club, this organization needed to rebuild its farm. DD is simply not the right guy for that job.

[Elktonnick]

Shaughnessy's original article did mention that DD seemed to have become cut off from the organization outside of Larussa and Wren.

 

But also cited Sale and Eovaldi as baseball reasons.

 

Peter Gammons gave a more detailed rundown of DD's last day. It seems that DD had basically isolated himself from the rest of the front office and minor league managers. While he did have a good relationship with Cora, DD's leadership style wasn't "collaborative" enough to suit ownership. DD apparently had some kind of issue with one of the owners according to Gammons. Baseball reasons of course were at the bottom of it all but fundamentally it was that DD simply did not get along with many in the front office so he wasn't going to get a contract extension. DD brought it to a head with one of the owners last night and that sealed his fate.

 

Gammons made it clear that it was more leadership style than the baseball moves that he made or didn't make.

Edited September 9, 2019 by Elktonnick

[Elktonnick]

Unspecified rumors that some people did not like the just deposed boss. Wow........breaking news. Give me a break.

 

So a guy that brings Henry a WS is fired because some employees don't like his management style. When Russo returns from La La Land, let me know.

 

IMO, Henry's dissatisfaction with DD starts AFTER the WS win with the three deals done at the start of this season regardless of their impact on the actual season itself. It went farther downhill when DD did not replace Kimbrel or Kelly which suggests DD is oblivious as ever when it comes to pens, oh by the way the one component of a MLB team that has gone through a massive change in approach. It went further downhill at the trade deadline and the resultant impact on the team which rightly or wrongly swooned.

 

I should also point out that its not Kennedy that would have been petitioning for public statements from exec management about the team having the talent without addition to make a run. Its not Kennedy that would have petitioned for those public statements and its not Henry either. Neither one would have been petitioning for them. DD would have been petitioning for them. That certainly worked out well. Finally there is the certain knowledge that no matter what was going on with the big club, this organization needed to rebuild its farm. DD is simply not the right guy for that job.

 

Peter Gammons more less agreed with Russo.

[jung]

Peter Gammons gave a more detailed rundown of DD's last day. It seems that DD had basically isolated himself from the rest of the front office and minor league managers. While he did have a good relationship with Cora, DD's leadership style wasn't "collaborative" enough to suit ownership. DD apparently had some kind of issue with one of the owners according to Gammons. Baseball reasons of course were at the bottom of it all but fundamentally it was that DD simply did not get along with many in the front office so he wasn't going to get a contract extension. DD brought it to a head with one of the owners last night and that sealed his fate.

 

Gammons made it clear that it was more leadership style than the baseball moves that he made or didn't make.

 

Correct...he was not going to get contract extension. That at the end of the day was the actual story and most of us already more than suspected that. That Henry was not willing to carry DD till the end of the year was the other part of the story. Henry kicked his ass out the door.

 

If we think DD was summarily dismissed in the way that he was summarily dismissed because he "could not get along" we are dreaming. To the extent that "could not get along" means making decisions in a vacuum, that is believable. But making decisions in a vacuum is a huge business no-no on its own merits having nothing to do with social skills or interpersonal relationships. "Not getting along" smacks of poor water cooler decorum. Sorry, not buying it.

 

We needed a different guy and it does not matter if that different guy kicks his dog or not.

Edited September 9, 2019 by jung

[S5Dewey]

Their salaries and projected value per dollar going forward is tied to your statement.

 

Nope. If one believes that they also have to believe that DD would have gotten fired if the Sox won the WS this year. Their salaries and projected value per dollar going forward are what they are.

[S5Dewey]

This team's fans expect to win on a consistent basis. That does not mean that the Red Sox need to the win the World Series

every year but they better be in contention.

 

GO SOX!

 

If so there are going to be a lot of disappointed people in 2020.

[S5Dewey]

there is the certain knowledge that no matter what was going on with the big club, this organization needed to rebuild its farm. DD is simply not the right guy for that job.

The only bright spot in this whole thing.

[vegasbob]

One thing to be learned and understood at many levels of employment, even CEO, is that when you think you are bigger than ownership you have just stepped on the banana peel. Exact wrong time this year to be talking an extension when DD's contract covered 2020 already. Results count in every business except politics and utility companies where f***wits prevail over decades of ineptitude. If DD said it's me or the door, he committed a form of professional Hari-kiri. One thing I know about working with "billionaires" is that you are not them, you are not "family", you are the well compensated help, and don't forget it.

 

DD being gone will actually make some of the decision making that was needed about personnel in 2020/2021 a bit easier because it will have been all his "fault". Now the next up to GM will have to deal with the Betts dilemma, Sale and Price's issues, JDM's 2 walk years and rebuilding the farm while remaining relevant in the AL East. That person or committee (please, no) will be well tested by the Dombrowski debris field. Dave might sit out a year, collect his money and sooner or laterr a hungry owner who thinks Dave can get him into the WS will capitulate and say can you do it here? Dave will say, show me your farm system rosters, I think I can help.

[notin]

If so there are going to be a lot of disappointed people in 2020.

 

Let’s see what 2020 looks like first...

[oldtimer]

Correct...he was not going to get contract extension. That at the end of the day was the actual story and most of us already more than suspected that. That Henry was not willing to carry DD till the end of the year was the other part of the story. Henry kicked his ass out the door.

 

If we think DD was summarily dismissed in the way that he was summarily dismissed because he "could not get along" we are dreaming. To the extent that "could not get along" means making decisions in a vacuum, that is believable. But making decisions in a vacuum is a huge business no-no on its own merits having nothing to do with social skills or interpersonal relationships. "Not getting along" smacks of poor water cooler decorum. Sorry, not buying it.

 

We needed a different guy and it does not matter if that different guy kicks his dog or not.

 

We aren't privy to the day to day interworkings of the Red Sox and Peter Gammons is much closer than any of us but still probably didn't get a first hand understanding of the issues. I assume that some of the moves that DD made and was further recommending were not supported by many of the insiders in the organization. When those moves, like the Sale and Eovaldi extensions and perhaps the signings of Moreland and Pearce didn't work out, DD was in line to take all of the blame. If his recommendations seemed like he was going in the wrong direction to JH, a change had to be made. After a couple of years of spending up to or over the second tier of the competitive balance tax, it certainly looks like the Sox are headed in the wrong direction.

 

DD apparently confronted ownership and wanted to know if he was going to be extended. Can't blame him for that based on the many rumors floating around. When the told him that he wouldn't be, it was all over and DD vacated his post. In truth, it probably is best that DD is gone early, since the team is out of it this year and needs to start the talent search for the future.

 

There are key decisions to be made. To reset or not to reset. To resign Mookie or not. Ditto with JBJ and maybe JDM. They need to formulate a business plan going forward and have a mission statement. i didn't see DD as the guy to make the difficult changes to draw down below $208 Mil, start to rebuild the farm while retaining our young core and remaining at least somewhat competitive.

[moonslav59]

Nope. If one believes that they also have to believe that DD would have gotten fired if the Sox won the WS this year. Their salaries and projected value per dollar going forward are what they are.

 

Okay, I guess it's just my opinion.

 

Sucking is one thing. Sucking and having multiple years left at mega bucks is another... and worse!

[moonslav59]

If so there are going to be a lot of disappointed people in 2020.

 

It kinda sucked in 2012, 2014 and 2015, but there was a light at the end of the tunnel. Plus, going into each of those years, I thought we had a chance to make the playoffs.

 

Depending on how much of an overhaul (if any) we have in 2020. I'll enjoy watching the games and players as long as I think we have hope for the future. (We may make the playoffs next year, especially since we'll "have something to prove.")

[jung]

We aren't privy to the day to day interworkings of the Red Sox and Peter Gammons is much closer than any of us but still probably didn't get a first hand understanding of the issues. I assume that some of the moves that DD made and was further recommending were not supported by many of the insiders in the organization. When those moves, like the Sale and Eovaldi extensions and perhaps the signings of Moreland and Pearce didn't work out, DD was in line to take all of the blame. If his recommendations seemed like he was going in the wrong direction to JH, a change had to be made. After a couple of years of spending up to or over the second tier of the competitive balance tax, it certainly looks like the Sox are headed in the wrong direction.

 

DD apparently confronted ownership and wanted to know if he was going to be extended. Can't blame him for that based on the many rumors floating around. When the told him that he wouldn't be, it was all over and DD vacated his post. In truth, it probably is best that DD is gone early, since the team is out of it this year and needs to start the talent search for the future.

 

There are key decisions to be made. To reset or not to reset. To resign Mookie or not. Ditto with JBJ and maybe JDM. They need to formulate a business plan going forward and have a mission statement. i didn't see DD as the guy to make the difficult changes to draw down below $208 Mil, start to rebuild the farm while retaining our young core and remaining at least somewhat competitive.

 

DD asking Henry to make clear to him his standing and his position in the organization did not require summary dismissal in the way DD was summarily dismissed. Henry could have brought him in, told him he was gone though I am a bit surprised he did not already know that. Henry could have told him he would be let go at the end of this season, not extended and not kept on as a lame duck. The end.

 

There would have been some sense to DD accepting those terms to protect his reputation given that Henry would not have allowed DD to make a single move for the period till end of year without gaining Henry's personal approval.

 

This summary dismissal was designed to indicate Henry is more than just a little disappointed in DD's performance post 2018. I can't be convinced Henry was disappointed through 2018 because DD did exactly what DD always does to win it all now and Henry knew DD would handle his 2018 responsibilities just as he did. I think Henry expected a different level of engagement, work effort and results post 2018 and is much disappointed in what he saw out of DD in that regard. In some ways DD moved Henry's finger off the button and sprung the trap door he was standing on himself.

 

DD is an old dog. Expecting him to learn new tricks is a bit unrealistic. DD didn't and Henry was not going to spend more time determining if DD could figure it out.

Edited September 9, 2019 by jung

[TylerD]

It kinda sucked in 2012, 2014 and 2015, but there was a light at the end of the tunnel. Plus, going into each of those years, I thought we had a chance to make the playoffs.

 

Depending on how much of an overhaul (if any) we have in 2020. I'll enjoy watching the games and players as long as I think we have hope for the future. (We may make the playoffs next year, especially since we'll "have something to prove.")

 

Agreed! Outside of the pitching this has been a fun team to watch. Hell even the bullpen down the stretch has performed well. Really just the starting rotation has stunk this year.

[Bellhorn04]

Peter Gammons gave a more detailed rundown of DD's last day. It seems that DD had basically isolated himself from the rest of the front office and minor league managers. While he did have a good relationship with Cora, DD's leadership style wasn't "collaborative" enough to suit ownership. DD apparently had some kind of issue with one of the owners according to Gammons. Baseball reasons of course were at the bottom of it all but fundamentally it was that DD simply did not get along with many in the front office so he wasn't going to get a contract extension. DD brought it to a head with one of the owners last night and that sealed his fate.

 

Gammons made it clear that it was more leadership style than the baseball moves that he made or didn't make.

 

Does anyone else see the uncanny similarity to the departure of our previous DD, Dan Duquette?

[Kimmi]

 

Wow... I didn't think this would actually happen that fast, I thought he would at least get another year.

 

I am very surprised that it happened this fast.

 

I have always thought of Henry as someone who 'panics'.

 

This move just strengthens my opinion.

[Kimmi]

This also puts Cora on notice. The Sox will open a GM search and any time a GM comes on with a manager they didn’t pick, it leads to a potentially dicey relationship

 

Getting rid of Cora would be a mistake, IMO.

[Bellhorn04]

If so there are going to be a lot of disappointed people in 2020.

 

Yes, I'm afraid there might be some negativity on the game threads. :D

[Kimmi]

IMO an injustice has been done here. I know that the Sox have had a much worse season than anticipated so someone has to pay the price but letting DD go now is a mistake. DD did exactly what a GM is supposed to do. He assembled a team that should and would be a WSC contender had it not been for the unforseen collapse of the top of the rotation.

 

And please.. this collapse had nothing to do with the signing of Pearce over getting a couple of BP arms. If he'd signed Kimbrel, Chapman, AND Kenley Jansen it would have had nothing to do with the fact that Sale, Price and Porcillo sucked and gave up too many runs too early in the games.

 

The path now isn't a pretty one. Some of these big contracts have to go - if they can be unloaded, and if they are unloaded the Sox are going to have to pick up part of the salaries. Nobody - except maybe Devers - on that team is safe now. There's going to be a reset of major proportions and many of those familiar names, those names who comprised one of the best offensive and defensive teams in baseball, are going to be gone.

 

It looks to me like if you liked 2014 & 2015 you're going to LOVE 2020.

 

I'm not sure if letting Dombrowski go now is a mistake, but otherwise I completely agree with your first two paragraphs. Well said.

 

Even with this firing, I'm not sure of what Henry's intentions are. The farm needs to be rebuilt, for sure, but I can't see Henry tearing everything down and putting a non-competitive team on the field.

[Kimmi]

I actually think the timing of this was exactly right. JH shows again that he doesn't ness around.

 

Or that he panics.

[Kimmi]

right. but if we made it to the postseason and had another parade do you think DD is fired?

the reason we are going to make "major changes" and "reset" is because we are missing the playoffs....

 

I agree that if we were in the playoffs, the firing would not have happened.

[Swiharts Ghost]

I for one hope it’s not the end of Betts. You don’t replace guys like Mookie

 

JB it's not and this is great news for the offseason .

[Bellhorn04]

Or that he panics.

 

You could say he lacks patience, I guess.

 

But GM's are a lot like players, really. Ideally you want to get the best out of them and then move on. I really believe that's the case here.

[Swiharts Ghost]

Getting rid of Cora would be a mistake, IMO.

 

Don't agree at all but you have to have a replacement that is proven .