A Realistic View at 2020: Part I

[Nick]

I think it makes more sense to just trade Dalbec, like you suggested before. He's got to be worth more to a team needing a 3Bman than to us at 1B.

 

To those about to jump on me for trading prospects, I'm only for trading him for a young player who has about as much control as Dalbec. Maybe Johnson + Dalbec for a better SP'er.

 

Assuming JD is gone, we might see this:

 

1B: Ockimey, Chavis, Travis (cheap FA?)

 

2B: Chavis, Marco, Chatham, Lin

 

DH: Ockimey, Chavis, Fat Beni

 

Absolutely NO to trading Dalbec. Why would you trade away next Devers? His trade value is NOT the best right now. Play him first.

[jacksonianmarch]

Absolutely NO to trading Dalbec. Why would you trade away next Devers? His trade value is NOT the best right now. Play him first.

 

He’s not the next Devers. Devers demolished the minors as a teenager and debuted at 20. Hes a rare talent. Dalbec looks to be a corner infielder with power who’s worth is going to be directly tied to his ability to make contact

[jacksonianmarch]

Dalbec needs to prove his lack of contact can still sustain worthwhile MLB production or that he can improve on his contact. This is why Judge was not worth much on the trade market after his cup of coffee debut in 2016. Teams thought he was a .200 hitting guy with power who would K a ton. Usually they’re right.

[Nick]

He’s not the next Devers. Devers demolished the minors as a teenager and debuted at 20. Hes a rare talent. Dalbec looks to be a corner infielder with power who’s worth is going to be directly tied to his ability to make contact

 

little bit of hyperbole....but with everything being said about our farm, why would you trade him NOW?

 

c Vaz

1B Dalbec

2B Chavis

SS Xander

3B Devers

 

I can live with that for 2020. I thought the goal was to reset?

[jacksonianmarch]

little bit of hyperbole....but with everything being said about our farm, why would you trade him NOW?

 

c Vaz

1B Dalbec

2B Chavis

SS Xander

3B Devers

 

I can live with that for 2020. I thought the goal was to reset?

 

Exactly. And who’s to say he cannot play LF? If he was a top 50 prospect nationally I’d say dealing him may make sense. But his worth and name recognition isn’t there right now. He’s the kind of prospect you see what he’s made of on your own team

[notin]

Absolutely NO to trading Dalbec. Why would you trade away next Devers? His trade value is NOT the best right now. Play him first.

 

No one is suggesting trading thr next Devers. Just the first Dalbec,

 

When Devers was Dalbec's age... wait, he hasn't gotten there yet. I'll finish this post in 15 months...

[notin]

little bit of hyperbole....but with everything being said about our farm, why would you trade him NOW?

 

c Vaz

1B Dalbec

2B Chavis

SS Xander

3B Devers

 

I can live with that for 2020. I thought the goal was to reset?

 

Mostly because that is more likely to kill Dalbec's value than inflate it.

 

Dalbec may or may not hit, but we can both agree not hitting is easier. But he can field. If you want to maximize his value, you showcase him as a 3b. At 1b, it only work out if he hits. But if he comes out of the gate at .182/.282/.410, what's next, besides looking for another 1b?

 

I call the Guardians today and offer Dalbec (surplus value of $18.8mill per baseballtradevalues.com) for Aaron Civale (surplus value $18.2mill). 1b can be filled a multitude of other ways...

[S5Dewey]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who wondered about that.

 

You're not...at all. This may be the mother of all no-brainers. JDM is pleading to play defense and the Sox need a first baseman.

If you look back through my old posts I've always been an advocate of being strong defensively up the middle and if you have to give up defense to get power do it at the corner positions.

 

As early as a year ago I was wondering why they didn't give JDM a 1st baseman's glove and say to him, "Here. Learn how to use it during the off season". He may not be a GG'er at 1B but he's playing defense every day. he's happy and we still have him in the lineup. What's the downside?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

No one is suggesting trading thr next Devers. Just the first Dalbec,

 

When Devers was Dalbec's age... wait, he hasn't gotten there yet. I'll finish this post in 15 months...

 

Ha, great line, made me laugh. A month before Devers' call-up I went to watch him play a double A game in Hartford. He hit a rising line drive out of the park that probably didn't stop until it landed on a barge in the Connecticut River (small city) and wound up in some southern port. I've seen high fly homers there from future big leaguers like Vlad Jr and Biggio, but nothing scorched like Devers'. He was the one guy I didn't want to see DD deal.

[notin]

You're not...at all. This may be the mother of all no-brainers. JDM is pleading to play defense and the Sox need a first baseman.

If you look back through my old posts I've always been an advocate of being strong defensively up the middle and if you have to give up defense to get power do it at the corner positions.

 

As early as a year ago I was wondering why they didn't give JDM a 1st baseman's glove and say to him, "Here. Learn how to use it during the off season". He may not be a GG'er at 1B but he's playing defense every day. he's happy and we still have him in the lineup. What's the downside?

 

The only issue might be a physical one. He had some back issues that might be exacerbated by playing 1b. Maybe that was the issue?

 

If the Sox play him at 1b, that's fine with me. There is still time to implement that if he doesn't opt out. And while 1b might be the easiest defensive position to field and therefore to fill, that's only true if you don't count DH...

[Bellhorn04]

You're not...at all. This may be the mother of all no-brainers. JDM is pleading to play defense and the Sox need a first baseman.

If you look back through my old posts I've always been an advocate of being strong defensively up the middle and if you have to give up defense to get power do it at the corner positions.

 

As early as a year ago I was wondering why they didn't give JDM a 1st baseman's glove and say to him, "Here. Learn how to use it during the off season". He may not be a GG'er at 1B but he's playing defense every day. he's happy and we still have him in the lineup. What's the downside?

 

There are two possible downsides. One is he's not a good first baseman. The other is he's more subject to injury.

 

Pretty much the same as they were for David Ortiz. Although Ortiz was a decent first baseman when he played.

[Bellhorn04]

The only issue might be a physical one. He had some back issues that might be exacerbated by playing 1b. Maybe that was the issue?

 

He also had the Lisfranc injury in 2017.

[Nick]

Mostly because that is more likely to kill Dalbec's value than inflate it.

 

Dalbec may or may not hit, but we can both agree not hitting is easier. But he can field. If you want to maximize his value, you showcase him as a 3b. At 1b, it only work out if he hits. But if he comes out of the gate at .182/.282/.410, what's next, besides looking for another 1b?

 

I call the Guardians today and offer Dalbec (surplus value of $18.8mill per baseballtradevalues.com) for Aaron Civale (surplus value $18.2mill). 1b can be filled a multitude of other ways...

 

Wouldn't that be true with every minor leaguer?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I'm not sure about first for JD. I'd say it's a more important position than left field, in that in involves many more chances, with almost all geared towards securing potential outs, many of which should be automatic outs that a team can't afford to risk. A good first baseman needs soft hands and nimble feet, and has to make quality relays or feeds to other bases. Infielders or catchers seem to be the best at transitioning over to first. They could try him out over there in ST -- he is a professional athlete, after all. But no team at any level from T-ball on up can keep a liability at first base.

[kenmeister]

I'm not sure about first for JD. I'd say it's a more important position than left field, in that in involves many more chances, with almost all geared towards securing potential outs, many of which should be automatic outs that a team can't afford to risk. A good first baseman needs soft hands and nimble feet, and has to make quality relays or feeds to other bases. Infielders or catchers seem to be the best at transitioning over to first. They could try him out over there in ST -- he is a professional athlete, after all. But no team at any level from T-ball on up can keep a liability at first base.

 

Agreed; it's worth a try but you don't want a "block of wood" at first base. Heh, remember Jose Offerman?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Jose awful, man. How about: remember Luke Voit? (I know he had a hernia, but it sure didn't look like he had a postseason spot in the NY lineup, with DJ at first and the big money guys at DH...)

[notin]

Jose awful, man. How about: remember Luke Voit? (I know he had a hernia, but it sure didn't look like he had a postseason spot in the NY lineup, with DJ at first and the big money guys at DH...)

 

I ripped the Offerman signing when DD made it, but the guy did have a .391 OBP his first year in Boston, and he had a .364 OBP and .757 OPS in his first 3 seasons in Boston. He actually was not that bad at the plate.

 

Defensively, he could only play 1b, however...

[kenmeister]

I ripped the Offerman signing when DD made it, but the guy did have a .391 OBP his first year in Boston, and he had a .364 OBP and .757 OPS in his first 3 seasons in Boston. He actually was not that bad at the plate.

 

Defensively, he could only play 1b, however...

 

He was the worst first baseman I've ever seen, which is why I brought it up.

[notin]

He was the worst first baseman I've ever seen, which is why I brought it up.

 

 

Worse than Hanley? And maybe some of the older folks can tell us about Dick Stuart aka Dr. Strangeglove,

 

Actually Offerman was not so much a bad 1b as he was a player who did not fit the mold of what fans wanted from a 1b - a prototypical slugging bulwark who can at third thru fifth in any lineup...

[moonslav59]

I think your opinion of Dalbec is a bit higher than should be expected. Dalbec isn’t bringing back much outside of him being part of a package. He’s worth far more to the Sox than to other organizations. That could change with a solid debut, but dealing him now doesn’t move the needle

 

His highest value is at 3B, and I seriously doubt the Sox want to force Devers to learn a new position (1B).

 

In theory, Dalbec's value is higher for a team with a weak 3B. I'm not for giving Dalbec away. I'm not for trading this prospect for an aging vet.

 

I'm for making a sideways move that brings back equal value at a position of higher need to the Sox. (Equal also means equal years of low cost team control.)

[moonslav59]

Absolutely NO to trading Dalbec. Why would you trade away next Devers? His trade value is NOT the best right now. Play him first.

 

I really like Dalbec- probably more than most here. I'm even okay with moving Devers to 1B to allow Dalbec to get a shot at 3B in 2020, but I don't think that will happen.

 

I'm only for trading him for someone equally young and promising, but who plays 2B, 1B, OF or pitches.

[S5Dewey]

Wait a minute! At what point did moving JDM to 1st base get rejected because Jose Offerman was a bad 1B-man?

[Bellhorn04]

Wait a minute! At what point did moving JDM to 1st base get rejected because Jose Offerman was a bad 1B-man?

 

We've mentioned possible issues with his ability to play the position and injuries (back, Lisfranc).

 

There's a pretty good chance he's a goner anyway, rendering all this a moot point.

[Slasher9]

Didn't we have not just a first baseman, but a platoon of Moreland and Pearce on the payroll?

 

which one of their medical histories gave you confidence that another 1bman would not be needed?

also, we just saw 2018 how bad JDM was at OF defense. with needing his bat in the lineup everyday (especially in national league parks) it would have been wise to give him some reps at 1b. certainly there was plenty of time in the offseason and ST to try this out.

[Slasher9]

Wait a minute! At what point did moving JDM to 1st base get rejected because Jose Offerman was a bad 1B-man?

 

not sure S. also, not sure any of us said just hand him a 1b glove and throw him out there during the season. we were and are advocating giving him reps in the offseason and ST to see how he does. the Cora defenders apparently feel that would be blasphemy.....

[notin]

not sure S. also, not sure any of us said just hand him a 1b glove and throw him out there during the season. we were and are advocating giving him reps in the offseason and ST to see how he does. the Cora defenders apparently feel that would be blasphemy.....

 

I just think he never worked out at 1b because the Sox already had 2 first baseman.

[Bellhorn04]

not sure S. also, not sure any of us said just hand him a 1b glove and throw him out there during the season. we were and are advocating giving him reps in the offseason and ST to see how he does. the Cora defenders apparently feel that would be blasphemy.....

 

We also had Travis and Chavis who could play first.

 

I'm not even sure why this is an issue.

[moonslav59]

I thought the idea of giving JD a first baseman's mitt made some sense, but with a Moreland-Pearce platoon set up and lots of depth at 1B, I didn't think it was worth exposing JD to an injury for such a minimal gain.

 

The things is, we move JD to 1B, we have no hitter well suited to be the DH. JD's history screams to be a DH. We need him healthy.

[Slasher9]

I thought the idea of giving JD a first baseman's mitt made some sense, but with a Moreland-Pearce platoon set up and lots of depth at 1B, I didn't think it was worth exposing JD to an injury for such a minimal gain.

 

The things is, we move JD to 1B, we have no hitter well suited to be the DH. JD's history screams to be a DH. We need him healthy.

 

rather see him at 1b in national league parks then OF. it's a no brainer to have him take some reps there. except WTF.

[Slasher9]

I just think he never worked out at 1b because the Sox already had 2 first baseman.

 

we have 5 SP signed. let's not prepare any others!