A Realistic View at 2020: Part I

[Nick]

Come on man.

 

Who did the 'It's not me, it's them' thing hurt? It hurt Pedroia, and that's it.

 

Did it hurt Matt Barnes or John Farrell? No, of course it didn't.

 

It was a victimless crime, other than Pedroia himself.

 

He was one of the leaders. He lost my respect and many fans lost respect for him too. I just don't care about the guy. I'm a nobody. Who cares?

[S5Dewey]

He was one of the leaders. He lost my respect and many fans lost respect for him too. I just don't care about the guy. I'm a nobody. Who cares?

 

I see it as two different issues stemming from the same event. Taking things one by one....

 

Machado proved he's a cheap shot artist with his "slide". It was after that when the s*** really hit the fan.

 

Issue #1 - Machado didn't show any contrition... no apology, no nothing. He didn't even fake it!! That's inexcusable. IMHO there's no way anyone can have his back after that.

 

Issue #2 - After Pedey's team stood up for him Pedey then threw his teammates under the bus with, "It's not me, it's them". Again, inexcusable. He had the option of saying 'something' or saying 'nothing' and 'nothing' would have been a much better choice. As Larry Lucchino has been quoted as saying, "Nothing is sometimes a good thing to do and always a good thing to say."

 

I'm not quite as down on Pedey as I am on Machado - maybe because he was the victim in the original event and maybe because he plays for the Sox - but the whole thing tarnished my image of him. Pedey had the right to remain silent but didn't have the ability. When your whole team stands up for you, you don't undercut them.

[moonslav59]

This is a puff piece with no substance.

 

“Tendinitis” entails a tear. Now, most tendinitis involves microtears (seen only as inflammation) that heal with rest. You don’t do PRP on run of the mill tendinitis. My bet is he had a partial tear a la Tanaka and it will be healed by the PRP. The problem with the partial tears healing with PRP is that the ligament doesn’t get reinforced and typically the procedure fails or the player returns with diminished velocity. I have said before that it’s better for the Sox if Sale just had gotten TJS. Yes, he’s miss 2020, but there’s a chance you’ll see fireballing Sale in 2021. Now with the shoulder sapping his power and an elbow repaired via PRP, I am fairly confident that Sale’s best stuff is well behind him. He’s going to need to get more dynamic because that 96+ mph fastball isn’t going to reliably be in his arsenal

 

So, tendinitis is uncureable. Thanks, doc.

 

Look, I'm not saying he's going to be 100%, but he did come back a couple times, this year, and K'd more opps than ever before (K/9). Couldn't he already be dynamic enough? Couldn't he get over the tendinitis without surgery?

 

You included a lot more "substance" than I, but there is still a good chance Sale will be fine. We'll know more after the Dr. Andrews visit.

[notin]

I see it as two different issues stemming from the same event. Taking things one by one....

 

Machado proved he's a cheap shot artist with his "slide". It was after that when the s*** really hit the fan.

 

Issue #1 - Machado didn't show any contrition... no apology, no nothing. He didn't even fake it!! That's inexcusable. IMHO there's no way anyone can have his back after that.

 

Issue #2 - After Pedey's team stood up for him Pedey then threw his teammates under the bus with, "It's not me, it's them". Again, inexcusable. He had the option of saying 'something' or saying 'nothing' and 'nothing' would have been a much better choice. As Larry Lucchino has been quoted as saying, "Nothing is sometimes a good thing to do and always a good thing to say."

 

I'm not quite as down on Pedey as I am on Machado - maybe because he was the victim in the original event and maybe because he plays for the Sox - but the whole thing tarnished my image of him. Pedey had the right to remain silent but didn't have the ability. When your whole team stands up for you, you don't undercut them.

 

While Machado's slide was a complete cheap shot, he did try to help Pedroia up afterwards. I don't know what if anything he said to Pedroia personally, but Pedroia himself seemed satisfied and even spoke well of Machado aterwards. This is where it's all incomplete for me. Maybe he spoke well of Machado because of an apology and because he didn't think it was intentional. Or maybe because it was the professional thing to do. No idea here, just open to all possibilities.

 

The whole "It's not me" issue is overblown. While fans seem to like and justify retaliatory HBPs (including me on occasion; I'm only human), they really are more of a childish imposition and have no place in the game. And, standing up for teammates or not, they are illegal. But the real problem is these delayed ones from another game, because then one thing we do know is there will be another retaliation, in this case at a Red Sox player. It never ends there unless the umpire steps in. (And sometimes not even then.)

 

I can see a possibility that Pedroia didn't want the whole thing to escalate any further, something that really should happen. For all I know, Pedroia even called for it to not happen in a team meeting.

 

I know fans think that headhunting Machado by Barnes was "standing up for his teammate." But it wasn't. It was putting his hitters in the line of fire...

[Bellhorn04]

While Machado's slide was a complete cheap shot, he did try to help Pedroia up afterwards. I don't know what if anything he said to Pedroia personally, but Pedroia himself seemed satisfied and even spoke well of Machado aterwards. This is where it's all incomplete for me. Maybe he spoke well of Machado because of an apology and because he didn't think it was intentional. Or maybe because it was the professional thing to do. No idea here, just open to all possibilities.

 

The whole "It's not me" issue is overblown. While fans seem to like and justify retaliatory HBPs (including me on occasion; I'm only human), they really are more of a childish imposition and have no place in the game. And, standing up for teammates or not, they are illegal. But the real problem is these delayed ones from another game, because then one thing we do know is there will be another retaliation, in this case at a Red Sox player. It never ends there unless the umpire steps in. (And sometimes not even then.)

 

I can see a possibility that Pedroia didn't want the whole thing to escalate any further, something that really should happen. For all I know, Pedroia even called for it to not happen in a team meeting.

 

I know fans think that headhunting Machado by Barnes was "standing up for his teammate." But it wasn't. It was putting his hitters in the line of fire...

 

The reprisal was butchered by the Sox (thanks, Farrell). They didn't take care of it right away (E-Rod threw some pitches half-assedly toward Machado but missed) and they did it the wrong way by throwing at the head.

[Slasher9]

baseball's unwritten rules > whatever pedroia thinks/wants.

and it aint even close.

he should have kept his mouth shut. snitches get stitches

[notin]

The reprisal was butchered by the Sox (thanks, Farrell). They didn't take care of it right away (E-Rod threw some pitches half-assedly toward Machado but missed) and they did it the wrong way by throwing at the head.

 

It was actually a good thing Barnes was ejected before actually hitting Machado. Someone else would have been drilled. Possible fights.

 

That's just part of baseball as a fan I don't enjoy...

[notin]

baseball's unwritten rules > whatever pedroia thinks/wants.

and it aint even close.

he should have kept his mouth shut. snitches get stitches

 

And it's easy for us as fans to enforce that code from the safety of our seats and living rooms knowing full well no pitchers will be retaliating at us.

 

Like I said, I don't have all the details. But if Pedroia (or Farrell or anyone) called for no retaliation, Barnes was out of line. He went rogue, and did so at the risk of his teammates and not himself...

[jacksonianmarch]

So, tendinitis is uncureable. Thanks, doc.

 

Look, I'm not saying he's going to be 100%, but he did come back a couple times, this year, and K'd more opps than ever before (K/9). Couldn't he already be dynamic enough? Couldn't he get over the tendinitis without surgery?

 

You included a lot more "substance" than I, but there is still a good chance Sale will be fine. We'll know more after the Dr. Andrews visit.

 

Reading comprehension my friend.

 

Most tendinitis involves microtears. Those aren’t “partial tears” which can be seen on imaging. Microtears are only seen as inflammation. Run of the mill tendinitis heals with rest. The more serious types can heal with rest, but they take longer and the stability isn’t the same

[jacksonianmarch]

And how can you say Sale will be “fine”. He dropped 1.5 mph off his FB and gave up more than double his standard homer in rate.

 

Listen, there’s a comp here with Sabathia. CC started to see the HR rate tick up in 2012 from 0.6ish to 1. He had surgery to remove bone spurs from his elbow that offseason and returned with a 1.5 mph drop in velocity. For a few seasons, he soldiered on with lower velocity putting up sparkling peripherals and being largely ineffective due to a massive HR rate. It wasn’t until he changed his approach and embraced the junk balling side of him that he started to outperform his declining peripherals. Sale’s peripherals are still awesome, but he is underperforming due to the rising HR rate. That will continue the longer he pitches like he still has his fastball. Also, you haven’t seen Sale post this elbow injury. He could have lost even more velocity (more likely he will actually). My bet is Sale, if healthy enough to pitch, will be a 5 inning pitcher going forward with an ERA in the 4’s yet still maintaining the high K rate and good walk rate. He will intermittently turn back the clock but mix in far more clunkers than Sox fans are used to

[Slasher9]

Sale will be fine.

[moonslav59]

Reading comprehension my friend.

 

Most tendinitis involves microtears. Those aren’t “partial tears” which can be seen on imaging. Microtears are only seen as inflammation. Run of the mill tendinitis heals with rest. The more serious types can heal with rest, but they take longer and the stability isn’t the same

 

Do you know how serious Sale's was/is? Could they have just put him on the DL because we were out of it, and maybe it wasn't as bad as it might appear to be?

 

Could they have given him the injection out of precaution, and maybe it's not really a sign it was/is severe tendinitis?

 

Again, I'm not pretending to know how he'll be next year, but I'm continually surprised you seem to know for sure.

[S5Dewey]

And it's easy for us as fans to enforce that code from the safety of our seats and living rooms knowing full well no pitchers will be retaliating at us.

 

Like I said, I don't have all the details. But if Pedroia (or Farrell or anyone) called for no retaliation, Barnes was out of line. He went rogue, and did so at the risk of his teammates and not himself...

 

There's a lot about being a good teammate that some of us don't understand.

[notin]

And how can you say Sale will be “fine”. He dropped 1.5 mph off his FB and gave up more than double his standard homer in rate.

 

Listen, there’s a comp here with Sabathia. CC started to see the HR rate tick up in 2012 from 0.6ish to 1. He had surgery to remove bone spurs from his elbow that offseason and returned with a 1.5 mph drop in velocity. For a few seasons, he soldiered on with lower velocity putting up sparkling peripherals and being largely ineffective due to a massive HR rate. It wasn’t until he changed his approach and embraced the junk balling side of him that he started to outperform his declining peripherals. Sale’s peripherals are still awesome, but he is underperforming due to the rising HR rate. That will continue the longer he pitches like he still has his fastball. Also, you haven’t seen Sale post this elbow injury. He could have lost even more velocity (more likely he will actually). My bet is Sale, if healthy enough to pitch, will be a 5 inning pitcher going forward with an ERA in the 4’s yet still maintaining the high K rate and good walk rate. He will intermittently turn back the clock but mix in far more clunkers than Sox fans are used to

 

Over half the pitchers in baseball saw severely elevated home run rates...

[notin]

There's a lot about being a good teammate that some of us don't understand.

 

I don't pretend to understand any aspect of playing in MLB...

[moonslav59]

Over half the pitchers in baseball saw severely elevated home run rates...

 

He used K rate first, until I told him he had his highest K/9 of his career in 2019, then he switched to HR/9 rates to make his point.

[S5Dewey]

I don't pretend to understand any aspect of playing in MLB...

 

I never said it was limited to MLB.

[Kimmi]

He was one of the leaders. He lost my respect and many fans lost respect for him too. I just don't care about the guy. I'm a nobody. Who cares?

 

I'm not down on Pedroia at all. It's probably something he shouldn't have said, but by all accounts, Pedroia is a great teammate and a great leader.

[moonslav59]

It's hard for me to hold one bad statement against a guy who seemingly gave it his all for many years.

 

Sure, it upset me and his teammates, but I'm not sure any of us know how his teammates still view him- knowing his history not just that one moment in time.

[Kimmi]

Sale will be fine.

 

Yup.

[Kimmi]

It's hard to hold one bad statement against a guy who seemingly gave it his all for many years.

 

Exactly, especially when we don't know the whole story behind it. Like I said, he probably shouldn't have said it, but we've all said things at one point or another that we wish we hadn't said.

[d-money]

So the skankees are going after a big pitcher when they don’t even need pitching. They had one of their best pitchers suspended. Meanwhile we are thinking about trading one of our best players. I can see the skankees dominating the next 7 years to 10 years in the division.

[Bellhorn04]

I wonder how big of a story the Astros sign-stealing allegations will become.

[Bellhorn04]

So the skankees are going after a big pitcher when they don’t even need pitching. They had one of their best pitchers suspended. Meanwhile we are thinking about trading one of our best players. I can see the skankees dominating the next 7 years to 10 years in the division.

 

7 to 10, huh?

[d-money]

7 to 10, huh?

 

You don’t think that’s a stretch? We wanna trade our best players. If they trade betts for players they better make sure those prospects are ready to start from the get go.

[Elktonnick]

I wonder how big of a story the Astros sign-stealing allegations will become.

 

The MLB channel is making a big deal of it for now at least.

[kenmeister]

Yup.

 

I'm not sure where you guys are getting your optimism from. Of course I hope you are right.

[moonslav59]

I'm not sure where you guys are getting your optimism from. Of course I hope you are right.

 

I'm hopeful but would not bet on a big season from Sale.

[Larry Cook]

It's hard for me to hold one bad statement against a guy who seemingly gave it his all for many years.

 

Sure, it upset me and his teammates, but I'm not sure any of us know how his teammates still view him- knowing his history not just that one moment in time.

 

Pedroia single handedly fractured the locker room and sent our season down the tubes.

 

From being on teams as long as I was, I know the players have put all his nonsense behind them and are cheering for him to make a recovery, but not one will ever trust him again.

[illinoisredsox]

Pedroia single handedly fractured the locker room and sent our season down the tubes.

 

From being on teams as long as I was, I know the players have put all his nonsense behind them and are cheering for him to make a recovery, but not one will ever trust him again.

 

You don't know s***.

 

Show some proof he somehow fractured the locker room of a team that won 93 games and a division title. The incident took place in April 2017. For a fractured team, they sure played pretty well the last 140-145 games of the season. C'mon, man up and show proof, although I know you won't.

 

I'll repeat myself, you don't know jack about anything.