A Realistic View at 2020: Part I

[moonslav59]

Baseball America knows better.

 

Agreed, but this list has some interesting numbers:

 

TB has 4 in the top 42 and 6 in the top 95.

 

NYY has 3 between 63 and 83. That's better than our 1 at 86, but none in the top 62 is not all that great.

[kenmeister]

Be cruising on the Danbube for the next 10 days. Maybe something will happen with the GM in that time. Once in place, things can move on players like Porcello, Moreland and Betts. Hope the news is positive.

 

Cruising the Danube? Make sure you read Algernon Blackwood's The Willows before you go.

[vegasbob]

Be cruising on the Danbube for the next 10 days. Maybe something will happen with the GM in that time. Once in place, things can move on players like Porcello, Moreland and Betts. Hope the news is positive.

 

Enjoy Danube cruise, should be beautiful in the Fall. Enjoy ypur on point commentaries

[vegasbob]

Agreed, but this list has some interesting numbers:

 

TB has 4 in the top 42 and 6 in the top 95.

 

NYY has 3 between 63 and 83. That's better than our 1 at 86, but none in the top 62 is not all that great.

 

So is it better to have aa great ballpark and a poor MiLB system or great prospects and a terrible place to play? Answer: You can always move the guys to a better place, not necessarily Montreal.

[moonslav59]

So is it better to have aa great ballpark and a poor MiLB system or great prospects and a terrible place to play? Answer: You can always move the guys to a better place, not necessarily Montreal.

 

I think the whole terrible park thing is overblown.

 

I went to a game in TB and actually liked the park and experience.

 

Fenway is nice and has history, but it really is an uncomfortable park to watch a game. The whole 1B side grandstand sections are facing CF not the pitcher's mound. The seats are too small. The restrooms are gloomy and stinky and too few.

 

[kenmeister]

I think the whole terrible park thing is overblown.

 

I went to a game in TB and actually liked the park and experience.

 

Fenway is nice and has history, but it really is an uncomfortable park to watch a game. The whole 1B side grandstand sections are facing CF not the pitcher's mound. The seats are too small. The restrooms are gloomy and stinky and too few.

 

 

I vastly prefer watching the Red Sox on tv over going to Fenway Park. I feel like I spend the whole game having people shuffle back-and-forth in front of my seat and missing practically every play. It's non-stop. Then there was the time I had a pole in my way and could see home plate or the pitcher but not both.

[Bellhorn04]

I vastly prefer watching the Red Sox on tv over going to Fenway Park. I feel like I spend the whole game having people shuffle back-and-forth in front of my seat and missing practically every play. It's non-stop. Then there was the time I had a pole in my way and could see home plate or the pitcher but not both.

 

Funny the different reactions people have to Fenway. I know it's uncomfortable and all, but I think it's one of the great properties in the world.

 

It would be cool if they could somehow gut it and rebuild the interior without touching the existing dimensions.

[moonslav59]

Funny the different reactions people have to Fenway. I know it's uncomfortable and all, but I think it's one of the great properties in the world.

 

It would be cool if they could somehow gut it and rebuild the interior without touching the existing dimensions.

 

It's a beautiful looking park, and I love going to games there, but it's really not comfortable.

 

TB's stadium is not beautiful, but it is very comfortable, climate-controlled and clean.

[harmony]

Because of its charm, every baseball fan should be encouraged to see one baseball game at Fenway Park.

 

But, because of its lack of amenities, not necessarily a second game.

[Slasher9]

Because of its charm, every baseball fan should be encouraged to see one baseball game at Fenway Park.

 

But, because of its lack of amenities, not necessarily a second game.

 

sorry but we dont need sushi or salmon thrown at us or "everybody clap your hands" blaring over the loudspeaker every other pitch to enjoy a baseball game. or not.

[harmony]

sorry but we dont need sushi or salmon thrown at us or "everybody clap your hands" blaring over the loudspeaker every other pitch to enjoy a baseball game. or not.

Only Sweet Caroline and Dirty Water.

 

Or not.

[vegasbob]

I think the whole terrible park thing is overblown.

 

I went to a game in TB and actually liked the park and experience.

 

Fenway is nice and has history, but it really is an uncomfortable park to watch a game. The whole 1B side grandstand sections are facing CF not the pitcher's mound. The seats are too small. The restrooms are gloomy and stinky and too few.

 

 

Like you, have been to both parks multiple times, and agree with your onservations. Fenway remains special as you see the green grass and walls coming up from the concours which is like a bad subway station in a thrid world country. The Trop is good because you can spread out with no one around you or move seats to get different angles on the game.

[Nick]

Agreed, but this list has some interesting numbers:

 

TB has 4 in the top 42 and 6 in the top 95.

 

NYY has 3 between 63 and 83. That's better than our 1 at 86, but none in the top 62 is not all that great.

 

2016 Boston, Baltimore (W), Toronto (W), NY, Tampa

2017 Boston, NY (W), Tampa, Toronto, Baltimore

2018 Boston, NY (W) Tampa, Toronto, Baltimore

2019 NY, Tampa (W), Boston, Toronto, Baltimore

 

I rather be us than them.....over the last 4 years...apparently many of you would rather be in Yankees/Rays shoes. I wouldn't have traded placed in 2016.

Edited September 26, 2019 by Nick

[moonslav59]

2016 Boston, Baltimore (W), Toronto (W), NY, Tampa

2017 Boston, NY (W), Tampa, Toronto, Baltimore

2018 Boston, NY (W) Tampa, Toronto, Baltimore

2019 NY, Tampa (W), Boston, Toronto, Baltimore

 

I rather be us than them.....over the last 4 years...apparently many of you would rather be in Yankees/Rays shoes. I wouldn't have traded placed in 2016.

 

I'm extremely happy with our team's history since Henry took over. I wouldn't trade places with anyone (even before our first ring).

 

That doesn't mean I don't wish we had the farm systems of just about any other team in MLB.

 

We have a nice core of players going forward- some have some huge health concerns, but we can still be pretty good going forward.

 

Building the farm was never going to be easy under these new rules, especially for teams winning so much and spending enough to get draft and pool money penalties.

 

It will be almost impossible to stay highly competitive without drastically improving our farm, unless Henry allows the budget to go over the max line year after year. (I doubt that happens.)

[Elktonnick]

Alex Spier just said on the NESN post game show that Brian Bannister the guy brought in to help revamp Boston pitching opposed the go slow spring training approach used last year. Spier said that as early as April Bannister said that the go slow approach was a big mistake. He argued that pitchers needed at least 6 weeks to get ready for the season. Jim Rice also said during the show that there is discussion about going back to some of the old basics like having the pitchers running leg sprints in the outfield to build up their leg strength and stamina.

 

Apparently there is recognition in the front office that there needs to be a major rethink about Boston's total approach towards pitching.

[Slasher9]

Alex Spier just said on the NESN post game show that Brian Bannister the guy brought in to help revamp Boston pitching opposed the go slow spring training approach used last year. Spier said that as early as April Bannister said that the go slow approach was a big mistake. He argued that pitchers needed at least 6 weeks to get ready for the season. Jim Rice also said during the show that there is discussion about going back to some of the old basics like having the pitchers running leg sprints in the outfield to build up their leg strength and stamina.

 

Apparently there is recognition in the front office that there needs to be a major rethink about Boston's total approach towards pitching.

 

That’s weird. So many TalkSox posters said the spring training thing was “overblown”. Surely they were not.....wrong?!?

[moonslav59]

Alex Spier just said on the NESN post game show that Brian Bannister the guy brought in to help revamp Boston pitching opposed the go slow spring training approach used last year. Spier said that as early as April Bannister said that the go slow approach was a big mistake. He argued that pitchers needed at least 6 weeks to get ready for the season. Jim Rice also said during the show that there is discussion about going back to some of the old basics like having the pitchers running leg sprints in the outfield to build up their leg strength and stamina.

 

Apparently there is recognition in the front office that there needs to be a major rethink about Boston's total approach towards pitching.

 

They need to re look at their whole philosophy, scouting, developing, talent recognition, medical staff and coaching of our pitchers from the first day they join the organization until the last day.

[moonslav59]

That’s weird. So many TalkSox posters said the spring training thing was “overblown”. Surely they were not.....wrong?!?

 

It could be overblown but still an issue that needs to be addressed.

[Larry Cook]

Alex Spier just said on the NESN post game show that Brian Bannister the guy brought in to help revamp Boston pitching opposed the go slow spring training approach used last year. Spier said that as early as April Bannister said that the go slow approach was a big mistake. He argued that pitchers needed at least 6 weeks to get ready for the season. Jim Rice also said during the show that there is discussion about going back to some of the old basics like having the pitchers running leg sprints in the outfield to build up their leg strength and stamina.

 

Apparently there is recognition in the front office that there needs to be a major rethink about Boston's total approach towards pitching.

 

Amen to bannister!

 

We also need to rethink the fastball-curveball-change up pitch philosophy.

 

And while we are at it, how about hiring pitching coaches that can teach pitching, and not just former players who are terrible communicators.

 

And finally how about hiring pitching scouts not named Stevie wonder or ray Charles!!!

[moonslav59]

Amen to bannister!

 

We also need to rethink the fastball-curveball-change up pitch philosophy.

 

And while we are at it, how about hiring pitching coaches that can teach pitching, and not just former players who are terrible communicators.

 

And finally how about hiring pitching scouts not named Stevie wonder or ray Charles!!!

 

How about Bannister getting no blame for a the whole staff melting down, except for 3 guys (ERod, Workman & Taylor).

 

3 Good

 

23 Bad to Horrible

[Nick]

Alex Spier just said on the NESN post game show that Brian Bannister the guy brought in to help revamp Boston pitching opposed the go slow spring training approach used last year. Spier said that as early as April Bannister said that the go slow approach was a big mistake. He argued that pitchers needed at least 6 weeks to get ready for the season. Jim Rice also said during the show that there is discussion about going back to some of the old basics like having the pitchers running leg sprints in the outfield to build up their leg strength and stamina.

 

Apparently there is recognition in the front office that there needs to be a major rethink about Boston's total approach towards pitching.

 

And Cora went along with it.....it's only his second year. But he made a mistake.

 

He's a good coach.

 

Starting pitching where we invested $90M+ just didn't get the job done.

[Bellhorn04]

Alex Spier just said on the NESN post game show that Brian Bannister the guy brought in to help revamp Boston pitching opposed the go slow spring training approach used last year. Spier said that as early as April Bannister said that the go slow approach was a big mistake. He argued that pitchers needed at least 6 weeks to get ready for the season. Jim Rice also said during the show that there is discussion about going back to some of the old basics like having the pitchers running leg sprints in the outfield to build up their leg strength and stamina.

 

Apparently there is recognition in the front office that there needs to be a major rethink about Boston's total approach towards pitching.

 

This is very odd because Bannister has been a big part of the team's pitching brain trust since 2015. It certainly signals some division in the ranks.

 

And probably the departure of LeVangie.

[sk7326]

This is very odd because Bannister has been a big part of the team's pitching brain trust since 2015. It certainly signals some division in the ranks.

 

And probably the departure of LeVangie.

 

Levangie will probably take the fall - though a decision like that is made at a much higher level. It's too big a change to have been delegated down. So you get a year where the Red Sox have 3 position players who will get MVP votes (remember the MVP ballot is 10 names long) and never get close to a playoff spot.

[Bellhorn04]

That’s weird. So many TalkSox posters said the spring training thing was “overblown”. Surely they were not.....wrong?!?

 

I still say overblown. It's trying to blame everything on the simplest, most convenient reason.

[sk7326]

I still say overblown. It's trying to blame everything on the simplest, most convenient reason.

 

It is probably simplistic. While it could explain the slow start, it does not explain why it never got better (except for a light stretch). What could be argued is that the slow start meant the bullpen got burned out very quickly.

[Elktonnick]

It is probably simplistic. While it could explain the slow start, it does not explain why it never got better (except for a light stretch). What could be argued is that the slow start meant the bullpen got burned out very quickly.

 

That has been my take since the outset. Moreover Spiers remarks about Bannister along with all the reporting regarding DD leadership style and front office personnel complaining about not having their voices heard probably means that the internal divisions over pitching philosophy, development, strategy and approach played a major part in DD's dismissal. This could help explain why Sox starting pitching never recovered from their dismal start.

[moonslav59]

Some thoughts on the state of our farm:

 

There were a number of factors that have led to where we are now, but let's not forget the fact that the farm still gave us Devers, Beni, Taylor, Walden & Chavis fairly recently. We have a few promising prospects, now, but other than Dalebec and D Hernandez, not many good ones are close to ML ready.

 

Here are a few of the "factors" as I see them:

 

1) Obviously, the number one factor was trading away so many of our highly ranked prospects by DD. Here is a list of those traded and their highest ranking ever on soxprospects.com:

1 Moncada

1 Swihart

3 Margot

3 Espinoza

5 Kopech

5 Beeks

5 Marrero

6 Guerra

7 Basabe #1

9 Dubon

12 T Shaw (not a prospect when traded)

12 Rijo

13 Allen

17 Buttrey

18 Basabe #2

18 Callahan

20 Asuage

20 Gerson

 

2) International Free Agent Signings have been horrible, and this used to be one of our greatest strengths (Devers, Bogey, DHern, Moncada, Margot, Iggy, Montas...). The best we've got to show since DD became the GM is Velazquez and Antoni Flores. The system has changed since Theo and Ben's days- making it harder for winning and big spending teams to have large bonus pools, but we've done very poorly, here. (See #6.)

 

3) Drafting low due to winning so much for 3 straight seasons:

2017 drafted 24th (Houck)

2018 drafted 26th (Casas)

2019 drafted 43rd (Cannon)* see #3

 

4) Draft penalty for going over the max line dropped us to #43 in 2019 draft.

 

5) Drafting poorly with the picks we had. The 2016 draft was the only one we picked higher than #24, and we did okay, assuming Groome amounts to something, and we also got Chatham (51), Dalbec (118) and Shawaryn (148), but it does not appear to be a strong draft. 2017: Houck (24), Brannen (63) and nobody else on the radar was not good. 2018 was decent: Casas (26) is a top 90 prospect. We also got Feltman (100), Ward (160)and Duran (220). Not bad, but not really eye opening either. 2019 is too soon to know, but there are some promising players.

 

6) Daniel Flores passed away. He was given twice the next highest signing bonus ($3.1M) as the next guy since 2015. Sad.

 

7) Banned from international free agent signings for 2016-2017 period. Thanks, Ben.

 

Put all these together, and we have a pretty bad farm system, right now. That doesn't mean we have nothing, but many of the best we have are 2-4 years away- like Casas, Mata, Jimenez, Lugo & A Flores.

 

Here's my current list of the top dozen Sox prospects:

1) Casas

2) Mata

3) Ward

4) Jimenez

5) Groome

6) Dalbec

7) Houck

8) Chatham

9) N Song

10) M Lugo

11) Duran

12) A Flores

[Bellhorn04]

It is probably simplistic. While it could explain the slow start, it does not explain why it never got better (except for a light stretch). What could be argued is that the slow start meant the bullpen got burned out very quickly.

 

That could certainly be true about the pen. But in the big picture the pen wasn't the real problem, it was the starters. E-Rod was the only one who pitched well and pitched all season.

 

Sale, Price, Porcello, Eovaldi, Cashner, Johnson, Velazquez and whoever we called up from the minors ranged from bad to hurt to horrendous.

[Bellhorn04]

That has been my take since the outset. Moreover Spiers remarks about Bannister along with all the reporting regarding DD leadership style and front office personnel complaining about not having their voices heard probably means that the internal divisions over pitching philosophy, development, strategy and approach played a major part in DD's dismissal. This could help explain why Sox starting pitching never recovered from their dismal start.

 

Something that is almost forgotten about the early stage dysfunction was the backup catcher controversy.

 

Apparently DD was the one who made the call of starting the season with Swihart instead of Leon. Leon was DFA'd and could have been a goner if any other teams were interested.

 

Then the pitching and Swihart get off to a crappy start and back comes Leon.

[moonslav59]

Something that is almost forgotten about the early stage dysfunction was the backup catcher controversy.

 

Apparently DD was the one who made the call of starting the season with Swihart instead of Leon. Leon was DFA'd and could have been a goner if any other teams were interested.

 

Then the pitching and Swihart get off to a crappy start and back comes Leon.

 

I has a feeling Cora wanted Leon all along. I never understood the reasoning for Swihart other than to hope to build trade value had he got off to an .850 start.