The GM thread

[moonslav59]

Better than they were in their primes? No.

 

But better than this year? Definitely they can be.

 

Yes, "can be" for several. Probably 1 or 2 will be due mainly to them being so bad (historically in their careers) this year.

 

But, none that I can truly say I feel confident they will be better.

[OH FOY]

Unfortunately that's not my strength.

 

Have to dig up some comps from the past, for starters.

 

What did Machado bring last year?

 

Orioles got all gambles that would never help the Dodgers in the future. Funny thing the only guy in the Trade that made the Majors is on the Yankees. Breyvic Valera. haha

[Bellhorn04]

Orioles got all gambles that would never help the Dodgers in the future. Funny thing the only guy in the Trade that made the Majors is on the Yankees. Breyvic Valera. haha

 

Diaz is a pretty legit prospect, it looks like. Not my strength, as I say.

[OH FOY]

Unfortunately that's not my strength.

 

Have to dig up some comps from the past, for starters.

 

Machado brought back 5 prospects last year. As to their quality I can't say.

 

So how about JD Martinez trade? About the same, again nothing special. Point is longer you wait the less you'll get. Why would a team give their best Prospects for a Rental, especially Pitching. You'll get something, but you'll wait to see if it mattered.

[OH FOY]

Diaz is a pretty legit prospect, it looks like. Not my strength, as I say.

 

Double AA 2 years ago, still in Double AA, just different organization. He'll be 23 in Oct. Maybe?

[OH FOY]

I know it sucks, but the time to Trade Mookie was this past Deadline. So a team had him this year for a Pennant Run, and next year to see if they could work out extension.

Would have gotten the best results back.

We gambled we would make a run, and it didn't work.

Maybe get something decent in Off-Season.

[Bellhorn04]

So how about JD Martinez trade? About the same, again nothing special. Point is longer you wait the less you'll get. Why would a team give their best Prospects for a Rental, especially Pitching. You'll get something, but you'll wait to see if it mattered.

 

Trading for a rental can be attractive, though, because a) you only do it if you're in the hunt; and you only pay one-third of their salary or so.

[OH FOY]

The Sox have to sign him now, and as he gets older, will be harder to Trade him. Plus he'll have 10-5 rights. Age and Contract, wil make it tougher. Might as well make him a Red Sox for his career now.

[OH FOY]

Trading for a rental can be attractive, though, because a) you only do it if you're in the hunt; and you only pay one-third of their salary or so.

 

I agree, but don't expect Top Prospects back. That's all, just have to hope you Scout other team and hope you hit a winner. If it was an elite Pitcher, then the philosophy changes. Yanks, with Chapman, and Miller with the Guardians. This year Grienke. Us with E-Rod.

Pitching is highly valued, for returns.

Edited August 8, 2019 by OH FOY!

[jacksonianmarch]

So Red Sox will be no good forever?

 

They’ll rise, but it’ll be a long one. The Sox need the purse strings to open again and they need to develop talent. A Betts trade plus good drafting and IFA signings over three years would improve the farm. After 3 more years (after 2022) Pedroia, Eovaldi and Price fall off the books. If the Sox rebuild and do it right, they’ll contend again in 2023

[notin]

Orioles got all gambles that would never help the Dodgers in the future. Funny thing the only guy in the Trade that made the Majors is on the Yankees. Breyvic Valera. haha

 

It’s been one year.

 

Diaz and Kremer are in their top ten per MLB.com.

 

Valera was a 26yo utility infielder who was probably only included to free up a spot on the 40 man roster

[jacksonianmarch]

It’s been one year.

 

Diaz and Kremer are in their top ten per MLB.com.

 

Valera was a 26yo utility infielder who was probably only included to free up a spot on the 40 man roster

 

Kremer is killing it in AA. Diaz was holding his own as a 22 yr old in AA before getting hurt. Both of these guys have good ceilings and should contribute on the highest level

[Carpin]

I know it sucks, but the time to Trade Mookie was this past Deadline. So a team had him this year for a Pennant Run, and next year to see if they could work out extension.

Would have gotten the best results back.

We gambled we would make a run, and it didn't work.

Maybe get something decent in Off-Season.

 

In the hypothetical case that the Red Sox deal Mookie to the Yanks, what would be your demand for him?

 

BTW, keep in mind that Gleyber is off limits and a few others from the first team, everybody in the farm is up for grabs. I know it will never happen but just for fun

[jacksonianmarch]

In the hypothetical case that the Red Sox deal Mookie to the Yanks, what would be your demand for him?

 

BTW, keep in mind that Gleyber is off limits and a few others from the first team, everybody in the farm is up for grabs. I know it will never happen but just for fun

 

Cashman has proven he won't deal good prospects for rentals, no matter how good they are

[moonslav59]

In the hypothetical case that the Red Sox deal Mookie to the Yanks, what would be your demand for him?

 

BTW, keep in mind that Gleyber is off limits and a few others from the first team, everybody in the farm is up for grabs. I know it will never happen but just for fun

 

Winter deal.

 

I'm sure we'd ask for Urshela or Andujar, but I doubt the Yanks would give multiple years of control for 1 of Betts. They probably wouldn't even give Frazier or Florial, but one would probably be demanded.

 

[Carpin]

Cashman has proven he won't deal good prospects for rentals, no matter how good they are

 

I know it will never happen, but I'm trying to assess, from the Sox fan perspective, how much they think he will be worth? in case they start an early rebuild

[oldtimer]

Winter deal.

 

I'm sure we'd ask for Urshela or Andujar, but I doubt the Yanks would give multiple years of control for 1 of Betts. They probably wouldn't even give Frazier or Florial, but one would probably be demanded.

 

 

Certainly your not proposing trading Betts to the Yankees!

[Fan_since_Boggs]

I don't believe the Red Sox have any intention to tear this down and rebuild. There is too much talent here to give up in 2020. There are a few pitching issues, but we are talking about one of the best offenses in baseball.

 

M.Betts will be signed to a long term deal. The Red Sox have the resources for him.

 

The Red Sox need C.Sale and Eavoldi to return to form, and they need to find another starter. D.Price is what he is--a middle of the rotation starter at best, but maybe something below that. The Red Sox don't have the resources to bid on G.Cole (extreme cost: probably over 200 million) and I hate spending more free agent dollars on a starting pitcher, but the Red Sox have no choice. I would expect the Red Sox to invest around 15-20 million per year in another starter, maybe a guy like P.Wheeler.

 

Bradley jr. is gone--that 10 million will be invested in a SP. The Red Sox will go cheap at CF and 1b--league minimum salaries. I suppose the Red Sox could also move Benintendi to CF and go cheap in LF. At 2b, I would expect Chavis to start. I don't know the Red Sox's plans for Dalbec, but I see him as a trade chip for a league minimum outfielder or 1b.

 

Once you add Wheeler and subtract Bradley, there is still money for the bullpen. The Red Sox need a closer, but I don't have any ideas on where they could find one--maybe through free agency, maybe the trade market. I don't believe the Red Sox are totally desperate in the bullpen: Barnes could have a better year, Workman is a solid 8th inning guy, and D.Hernandez has shown signs of dominance. It is quite possible that the Red Sox see Hernandez as a bullpen piece going forward and he has the stuff to develop into an elite relief pitcher.

 

I suppose it is possible that Dalbec could be used in a trade for a relief pitcher rather than 1b or outfielder.

 

The Red Sox can do all of this without trading away 3 top prospects: Casas, Mata, Jimenez. The only prospect I propose moving is Dalbec, and teams will want Dalbec--he has big time power and plays a quality 3b.

 

Thus, the Red Sox can set themselves up to be a really, really good team in 2020, and that is not the kind of team you tear down. Moreover, Casas, Mata, and Jimenez are moving quickly through the minors and will be able to help sometime beyond 2020. Moreover, the Red Sox have the opportunity to add another high end prospect through the first round of the 2020 draft.

Edited August 8, 2019 by Fan_since_Boggs

[Slasher9]

They’ll rise, but it’ll be a long one. The Sox need the purse strings to open again and they need to develop talent. A Betts trade plus good drafting and IFA signings over three years would improve the farm. After 3 more years (after 2022) Pedroia, Eovaldi and Price fall off the books. If the Sox rebuild and do it right, they’ll contend again in 2023

 

Guess we will just have to be content wearing our 2018 World Series champions T-shirts

[jacksonianmarch]

Guess we will just have to be content wearing our 2018 World Series champions T-shirts

 

You knew what DD was coming to do. He did it. Hat tip to him. Time to pay the piper

[Fan_since_Boggs]

You can just sense the fear in Jackson's posts when he writes about the Red Sox tearing it down and planning for 2023. After all, he does fear the Red Sox, call it the residual effects from 2004 when the Yankees were up 3 games to 0 in the ALCS and the Red Sox came back and won four straight. Do you remember watching that historic series, Jackson?

 

And who can forget last year's playoff series when the Red Sox kicked the living crap out of the Yankees all over the field. Miraculously, the Yankees won one game in that series at Fenway Park. They went home to Yankees stadium thinking they were in it with the series tied at 1-1. Wrong again . . . the Red Sox simply destroyed the Yankees in Yankees Stadium, just like they did in 2004 in the old stadium. If Jackson doesn't remember 2004, I'm sure he remembers the massacre in 2018.

[jacksonianmarch]

I don't believe the Red Sox have any intention to tear this down and rebuild. There is too much talent here to give up in 2020. There are a few pitching issues, but we are talking about one of the best offenses in baseball.

 

M.Betts will be signed to a long term deal. The Red Sox have the resources for him.

 

The Red Sox need C.Sale and Eavoldi to return to form, and they need to find another starter. D.Price is what he is--a middle of the rotation starter at best, but maybe something below that. The Red Sox don't have the resources to bid on G.Cole (extreme cost: probably over 200 million) and I hate spending more free agent dollars on a starting pitcher, but the Red Sox have no choice. I would expect the Red Sox to invest around 15-20 million per year in another starter, maybe a guy like P.Wheeler.

 

Bradley jr. is gone--that 10 million will be invested in a SP. The Red Sox will go cheap at CF and 1b--league minimum salaries. I suppose the Red Sox could also move Benintendi to CF and go cheap in LF. At 2b, I would expect Chavis to start. I don't know the Red Sox's plans for Dalbec, but I see him as a trade chip for a league minimum outfielder or 1b.

 

Once you add Wheeler and subtract Bradley, there is still money for the bullpen. The Red Sox need a closer, but I don't have any ideas on where they could find one--maybe through free agency, maybe the trade market. I don't believe the Red Sox are totally desperate in the bullpen: Barnes could have a better year, Workman is a solid 8th inning guy, and D.Hernandez has shown signs of dominance. It is quite possible that the Red Sox see Hernandez as a bullpen piece going forward and he has the stuff to develop into an elite relief pitcher.

 

I suppose it is possible that Dalbec could be used in a trade for a relief pitcher rather than 1b or outfielder.

 

The Red Sox can do all of this without trading away 3 top prospects: Casas, Mata, Jimenez. The only prospect I propose moving is Dalbec, and teams will want Dalbec--he has big time power and plays a quality 3b.

 

Thus, the Red Sox can set themselves up to be a really, really good team in 2020, and that is not the kind of team you tear down. Moreover, Casas, Mata, and Jimenez are moving quickly through the minors and will be able to help sometime beyond 2020. Moreover, the Red Sox have the opportunity to add another high end prospect through the first round of the 2020 draft.

 

Wheeler isn't a savior, but he is gonna cost you some money. Also pen guys don't grow on trees. You need two pen arms plus the hope that Barnes can find it, DHern can find the zone, and Workman isn't a one year wonder. Your rotation is already set at 4 if you don't tear down and the four guys there aren't very good. Sale is a good pitcher being paid like an ace. Price is a mediocre pitcher being paid like an ace. Eovaldi is an injured pitcher being paid like a #2-3. ERod is a guy pitching like a #3, and will be paid appropriately in arbitration. Add in Wheeler and you'll just add another enigma. Guy with insane stuff who hasn't been able to find it for long stretches outside of the final 2 months of 2018. Expecting your rotation to pitch better is probably somewhat reasonable. I doubt they are this bad. But expecting your rotation to give you more length is a fallacy. You need to prepare your pen as if its gonna work 4 innings a night to preserve leads.

 

Also, nobody wanted Dalbec. DD was sending out feelers to everyone for pen help at the deadline and nobody wanted the sox prospects. The guys you're holding onto outside of Casas are present in every organization. Guys with some ceiling but major holes that limit their future in the majors. Or guys with big time stuff whose proximity or lack thereof lowers their value. Without dealing Casas, you aren't getting a big piece back. The distance between him and #2 is wide

[jacksonianmarch]

You can just sense the fear in Jackson's posts when he writes about the Red Sox tearing it down and planning for 2023. After all, he does fear the Red Sox, call it the residual effects from 2004 when the Yankees were up 3 games to 0 in the ALCS and the Red Sox came back and won four straight. Do you remember watching that historic series, Jackson?

 

And who can forget last year's playoff series when the Red Sox kicked the living crap out of the Yankees all over the field. Miraculously, the Yankees won one game in that series at Fenway Park. They went home to Yankees stadium thinking they were in it with the series tied at 1-1. Wrong again . . . the Red Sox simply destroyed the Yankees in Yankees Stadium, just like they did in 2004 in the old stadium.

 

You keep living in the past my friend. How is 17 games back in the L column on August 8th feeling? 17 games back of a team that is pretty much using their AAA and AA lineups. The sox were scary. Their player development team was scary. Even when they were in last place, you knew it wasn't going to be long. The sox player development machine forced the Yankees to change their MO, that is how scary it was. But no more. Hiring DD was the deathknell of your development machine. Yes, you got a title out of it and you should be happy about it. But this is the first time since 2004 that I am reasonably assured that the sox are about to fall to a depth they haven't seen in awhile. A depth where they are going to need to become the Orioles before they can be good again. A depth that will be hard for Henry to stomach, which will lead to panic signings (like Panda and Hanley) to try and win again. Signings which will be ill timed with the rebuild. Signings which will return the Red Sox to being, well, the Red Sox of my childhood. This rebuild or lack thereof will be the barometer of how dedicated Henry is to winning consistently.

 

Hell, I hope you push your chips in. I hope you keep the band together. I hope you sign Mookie to an insane 10 year deal at $35 mil plus. I hope you deal Casas for a short term guy. I really, really do. Cause we will devour your squad next year no matter what and the crater will be even deeper

[moonslav59]

Certainly your not proposing trading Betts to the Yankees!

No, just answering a Q.

[moonslav59]

FSB, your plan puts us way over the max tax line, which will further hamper acquiring top prospects.

We will keep digging a deeper hole.

[notin]

FSB, your plan puts us way over the max tax line, which will further hamper acquiring top prospects.

We will keep digging a deeper hole.

 

 

Yeah I don’t think they can go buy another starter. I do agree they non-tender Bradley and let everyone who’s a free agent walk without a QO. (Except maybe Brock Holt.)

 

I don’t think they sign any free agent except possibly someone on a bounce back deal. Candidates include Hector Rondon,Scooter Gennett, Jedd Gyorko, Juan Lagares, Homer Bailey...

[Slasher9]

You can just sense the fear in Jackson's posts when he writes about the Red Sox tearing it down and planning for 2023. After all, he does fear the Red Sox, call it the residual effects from 2004 when the Yankees were up 3 games to 0 in the ALCS and the Red Sox came back and won four straight. Do you remember watching that historic series, Jackson?

 

And who can forget last year's playoff series when the Red Sox kicked the living crap out of the Yankees all over the field. Miraculously, the Yankees won one game in that series at Fenway Park. They went home to Yankees stadium thinking they were in it with the series tied at 1-1. Wrong again . . . the Red Sox simply destroyed the Yankees in Yankees Stadium, just like they did in 2004 in the old stadium. If Jackson doesn't remember 2004, I'm sure he remembers the massacre in 2018.

 

Yup. We own them. Yankees are our bitch. We’ve popped more champagne in their stadium then they have.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

FSB, your plan puts us way over the max tax line, which will further hamper acquiring top prospects.

We will keep digging a deeper hole.

 

No, it doesn't. The math works out.

 

What do people think of a platoon of Ockimey/Travis for 1b next year, with Ockimey facing righties (2019 AAA numbers against righties: 233 AB, 18 HR, .249 AVG, .390 OBP, .935 OPS); Travis facing lefties?

 

EDIT: just checked again, I'm at around 200 million with P.Wheeler signed. Maybe 210 is more like it, but that gives the Red Sox a lot of room to add a reliever, a really good reliever. The Red Sox just need to avoid the 237 million mark.

Edited August 9, 2019 by Fan_since_Boggs

[Fan_since_Boggs]

Yup. We own them. Yankees are our bitch. We’ve popped more champagne in their stadium then they have.

 

 

And if the Yankees make it past the first round, which is not a certainty due to their awful starting staff, the Yankees will be the Astros bitch (again). I can't wait to see it.

 

Teams don't repeat anymore. A World Series hangover seems to be a real thing. It would be stupid to tear the Red Sox down and begin rebuilding at this juncture. The Red Sox are only one year removed from winning 119 games. We know for certain that the Red Sox will have one of the better offenses next year. The Red Sox need to improve their pitching, but that can happen, Sale can have a big year again, Eavoladi could put it together, etc.

Edited August 9, 2019 by Fan_since_Boggs

[moonslav59]

No, it doesn't. The math works out.

 

What do people think of a platoon of Ockimey/Travis for 1b next year, with Ockimey facing righties (2019 AAA numbers against righties: 233 AB, 18 HR, .249 AVG, .390 OBP, .935 OPS); Travis facing lefties?

 

EDIT: just checked again, I'm at around 200 million with P.Wheeler signed. Maybe 210 is more like it, but that gives the Red Sox a lot of room to add a reliever, a really good reliever. The Red Sox just need to avoid the 237 million mark.

 

Are you forgetting the $15+M player benefit payment?