Who’s to blame...

[Noles_1335]

Do we just expect too much from this team or did all the stars align last season! Was last season a fluke or can we pin point what in the hell is going on. Why are our pitchers so freaking bad, why do we only hit in every 5th game or so, why can’t we go the other way against a shift( you’re a professional baseball player for gods sake, stay behind the baseball) why do we continue to keep guys in the lineup that can’t hit their weight.... lots of why’s on this team!

[oldtimer]

I wouldn't blame anyone, but I would recognize that this team isn't getting it done and plan on making adjustments for next season. Part of the adjustments would entail getting rid of the weak spots in the lineup, particularly if they are getting paid well. Ditto with the pitchers, get rid of the weak spots, especially if they get paid well. It will not be possible with some pitchers who were given long term contracts.

 

That said, I would really consider if the front office has a history of rebuilding teams after a downturn is experienced. Personally, I dont think DD is that kind of a GM. Thats no blaming him, just a recognition of his strengths and weaknesses. Its hard to make a judgment about the manager and coaches, but certainly the team has played below expectations for them for a good part of the year.

[YastrzemskI]

Do we just expect too much from this team or did all the stars align last season! Was last season a fluke or can we pin point what in the hell is going on. Why are our pitchers so freaking bad, why do we only hit in every 5th game or so, why can’t we go the other way against a shift( you’re a professional baseball player for gods sake, stay behind the baseball) why do we continue to keep guys in the lineup that can’t hit their weight.... lots of why’s on this team!

 

Well, the starting rotation is a good place to start if you want to point fingers. It’s to the point that we started criticizing Dana LeVangie the other day. And for good reason. Plenty of garbage to take out with 2019. DD threw caution to the wind with the pen this year. So.. we have the “DD and the pen” issue. To top it off.. some key players are having substandard years.

[Nick]

Do we just expect too much from this team or did all the stars align last season! Was last season a fluke or can we pin point what in the hell is going on. Why are our pitchers so freaking bad, why do we only hit in every 5th game or so, why can’t we go the other way against a shift( you’re a professional baseball player for gods sake, stay behind the baseball) why do we continue to keep guys in the lineup that can’t hit their weight.... lots of why’s on this team!

 

Our starters can't keep us in the games.....that's when you have .500 club.

[redsoxrules]

Man you guys are too spoiled. They are not winning the WS every year. Players have off years. s*** happens.

[harmony]

Who’s to blame?

 

A league with more than a few good teams.

[TylerD]

Today. Sale and the umps and the offense. But the season is on the pitching. Nothing else. Better pitching and we are in a playoff spot. That’s the bottom line.

[fxkatt]

Repeating would mean getting into the AFL semi-finals. This was and still should be fully expected. This is 240 million dollar team, which has a roster that is nearly identical to last years Champ team.

 

That said, who is most to blame to this point: Obviously, the starting pitchers. Way below par. And the central reason for this thread.

[Bellhorn04]

Who’s to blame?

 

A league with more than a few good teams.

 

Boy, you're really on a roll with the insights lately.

[jung]

It hardly matters who is to blame at this point. The rotation has been awful. So the first place you go is to the players themselves. But who committed this franchise to these starters? Who decided on closer by committee which has worked in MLB about all of one time that I can remember.

 

I have got a bigger issue. How oblivious to the pulse of this team is the front office? They came out right at the trade deadline and made all kinds of noise about how confident and enthusiastic this team was about itself, its uniform management, its executive management and its chances to get to the post season this year and the team went right out and immediately and publicly pulled management's pants right down around its ankles. How is it that this management was so far removed from the sentiments of the team that they ended up writing checks the team was clearly unwilling to cover fully 2/3rds of the way through the 2019 season?

 

this organization is a mess, top to bottom. IMO, LaVangie is gone, the bullpen coach is gone. Some players will be gone and now there is a much better chance that DD is gone than there was before everybody in management went and shot their mouths off at the trade deadline.

[notin]

Man you guys are too spoiled. They are not winning the WS every year. Players have off years. s*** happens.

 

I’m ok with players having off years. But I’m not ok with a GM who does nothing all offseason and then watches the team struggle and decides “ Eh. Maybe they’ll be better tomorrow.”

 

As I’ve said before - I’m ok with trying and failing. But I’m not ok with simply not trying. For all the attacks at Cherington on this board, he never gave us a complete lack of effort like Dombrowski did this year. He may have made questionable moves, but at least he made moves...

Edited August 4, 2019 by notin

[dgalehouse]

Who’s to blame?

 

A league with more than a few good teams.

 

Harm , Too bad the Mariners are not one of them .

[harmony]

Harm , Too bad the Mariners are not one of them .

The.Mariners are to blame for only three Red Sox losses in their seven-game season series.

 

Boston’s current seven-game losing streak tops Seattle’s longest losing streak of six (accomplished on four occasions this year).🙄

 

Boston’s single longest win streak of six this year matches Seattle’s longest (accomplished twice this season).

 

Last year the Red Sox won 19 more games than the Mariners in the regular season and this year may maintain that margin even if the Sox fall short of the M’s 89 wins in 2018.

 

The Red Sox have matched last year’s loss total at 54 (the Sox will need to go 49-0 the rest of the season to reach 108 wins). The Mariners need seven more losses to match their 2018 total of 73.

Edited August 4, 2019 by harmony

[Sox75]

Man you guys are too spoiled. They are not winning the WS every year. Players have off years. s*** happens.

 

Please stop with the spoiled rich kid BS.

NObody expects a WSC every year, but if you've got the highest payroll in mlb, you expect a good to great year.

 

The SR has sucked. Flat out SUCKED! Those making the BIG $$$$ , i.e. Price, Sale, Porcello, etc. are going to take heat. FANS cheer GREAT PLAY, & converse BOOOOO horrific play. It ain't rocket science.

[jad]

Yup. Just trade or waive Sale, Price, E-Rod, and Porcello, and oh yes, Barnes and maybe Eovaldi, and, you know, simply replace them with (or trade them for) a pitching staff that is better. You might have to eat a contract or two, but really, what could be simpler? (Oh yes, and of course, trade Mookie and JBJ for two better outfielders.)

[OH FOY]

Mookie has to be signed now, he's now a Rental. You'll wont get what everybody here expects. A flock of Prospects. Team Trading for him will cost them money to keep him. You wont get a Teams best Pitching Prospects because of this. Sox had to move him before July 31st, to pry the best Pitching Prospects. Maybe a real stupid team, but I doubt it.

All Trades for me now, will be the purpose of getting good young Talent in the Farm for Pitching. Our Farm needs a shot in the Arm for Pitching.

Edited August 4, 2019 by OH FOY!

[notin]

Mookie has to be signed now, he's now a Rental. You'll wont get what everybody here expects. A flock of Prospects. Team Trading for him will cost them money to keep him. You wont get a Teams best Pitching Prospects because of this. Sox had to move him before July 31st, to pry the best Pitching Prospects. Maybe a real stupid team, but I doubt it.

All Trades for me now, will be the purpose of getting good young Talent in the Farm for Pitching. Our Farm needs a shot in the Arm for Pitching.

 

If the Sox extend Mookie, they might not be able to fix the pitching next season...

[jung]

If the Sox extend Mookie, they might not be able to fix the pitching next season...

 

The problem with Mookie is that regardless of what Mike Trout makes, he and his agent are going to want to be compensated like he is the second coming of Mike Trout and he's not.

[notin]

The problem with Mookie is that regardless of what Mike Trout makes, he and his agent are going to want to be compensated like he is the second coming of Mike Trout and he's not.

 

Which is probably why he should be traded...

[Bellhorn04]

Which is probably why he should be traded...

 

They need to go to Mookie in the offseason, offer him an extension and tell him that if he doesn't accept it they have to trade him. But do it in an honest, respectful way.

[jung]

They need to go to Mookie in the offseason, offer him an extension and tell him that if he doesn't accept it they have to trade him. But do it in an honest, respectful way.

 

Yea....like how they approached the question of the team's sentiments regarding activity or lack thereof around the trade deadline. That sort of "honesty and respect" should carry the day........NOT!

[Bellhorn04]

Yea....like how they approached the question of the team's sentiments regarding activity or lack thereof around the trade deadline. That sort of "honesty and respect" should carry the day........NOT!

 

Please elaborate about the deadline stuff, Cynical Sam.

[TylerD]

Nope pitching

[jung]

Please elaborate about the deadline stuff, Cynical Sam.

 

See my post #171 from last night's game thread. I have something similar posted up on this side of the board as well. Easier to find 171 from last night's game thread. I should add to that one that Henry should have kept his big mouth shut too. We did not need the walking cadaver to rise from his coffin to comment.

[Bellhorn04]

See my post #171 from last night's game thread. I have something similar posted up on this side of the board as well. Easier to find 171 from last night's game thread. I should add to that one that Henry should have kept his big mouth shut too. We did not need the walking cadaver to rise from his coffin to comment.

 

Well, there's an easy counterargument. The Yankees, much to the astonishment and complaining of their fans and media, did even less than us at the deadline. But it had no ill effect on the team's play.

[notin]

Well, there's an easy counterargument. The Yankees, much to the astonishment and complaining of their fans and media, did even less than us at the deadline. But it had no ill effect on the team's play.

 

While I agree, the Yankees are also in a different position than the Sox. It’s one thing to stand pat and tell your team “you’re good enough to win it all,” when they’re 7 games up in the standings. It takes on a completely different meaning to say the same thing - even with the exact words - to a team on the outside looking in. Suddenly those same words turn into “ you’re good enough to win it all, so what the f*** is going on here?”

[jung]

Well, there's an easy counterargument. The Yankees, much to the astonishment and complaining of their fans and media, did even less than us at the deadline. But it had no ill effect on the team's play.

 

1) Red Sox, 25 players, 25 Limos....true since Yawkey was the owner and it STILL drives the mentality of this club. Frankly, we are as much to blame for that as anybody

2) Yankee management also did not take the added step of opening its BIG MOUTH in some insane effort to publicly shame the club or sell late season tickets or I DON"T KNOW WHAT! What was Red Sox Management doing and for what purpose? Worse, they even roped Cora into their nonsense.

 

Nor did Yankee ownership decide it was time to raise up from the morgue and open its BIG MOUTH. They carted DD out there, Kennedy of all people out there, Cora out there and in a separate statement, Henry adds the coup de grace. Nicely done guys....nicely done.

 

It blew up in their faces and they deserved to have it blow up in their faces. They either did not know the sentiments of their OWN TEAM or did not think the players were willing to throw them right under the bus???? Probably both were true. Give me a break Red Sox.

 

Does not let the players off the hook but this season, start to finish is a failure of the entire organization, top to bottom.

Edited August 4, 2019 by jung

[Bellhorn04]

While I agree, the Yankees are also in a different position than the Sox. It’s one thing to stand pat and tell your team “you’re good enough to win it all,” when they’re 7 games up in the standings. It takes on a completely different meaning to say the same thing - even with the exact words - to a team on the outside looking in. Suddenly those same words turn into “ you’re good enough to win it all, so what the f*** is going on here?”

 

I think that's all a matter of subjective interpretation.

 

I think the team gave the FO some hope with those 3 straight clobberings of the Yanks. It's an ongoing enigma how they could then turn right back into crap and lose 7 straight.

[Bellhorn04]

1) Red Sox, 25 players, 25 Limos....true since Yawkey was the owner and it STILL drives the mentality of this club. Frankly, we are as much to blame for that as anybody

2) Yankee management also did not take the added step of opening its BIG MOUTH in some insane effort to publicly shame the club or sell late season tickets or I DON"T KNOW WHAT! What was Red Sox Management doing and for what purpose? Worse, they even roped Cora into their nonsense.

 

Nor did Yankee ownership decide it was time to raise up from the morgue and open its BIG MOUTH. They carted DD out there, Kennedy of all people out there, Cora out there and in a separate statement, Henry adds the coup de grace. Nicely done guys....nicely done.

 

It blew up in their faces and they deserved to have it blow up in their faces. They either did not know the sentiments of their OWN TEAM or did not think the players were willing to throw them right under the bus???? Probably both were true. Give me a break Red Sox.

 

It's the same old story, jung. Losing makes you look bad.

 

Somehow these same guys won 119 last year.

 

Somehow John Henry has been in place for 4 titles while the Yankees have 1 in the same time frame.

 

But now it's the Sox who are a bunch of idiots and the Yanks really know what they're doing.

 

Yeah, right.

[jung]

It's the same old story, jung. Losing makes you look bad.

 

Somehow these same guys won 119 last year.

 

Somehow John Henry has been in place for 4 titles while the Yankees have 1 in the same time frame.

 

But now it's the Sox who are a bunch of idiots and the Yanks really know what they're doing.

 

Yeah, right.

 

Now your putting words in my mouth which I don't appreciate. That said its pretty popular around these parts. And from you its actually OK....BUT GET OFF MY LAWN.

 

I did not say any of that crap. You asked me what was different about this circumstance and I told you. I don't give a rats behind what the yankee brass does or does not do. I guess you do. But when the Sox brass pulls their ever PR motivated BS I am usually irritated enough. When they do it and it effects on field performance, now I am REALLY irritated.

 

If they actually cared about the sentiments of the team, they would have done all of that CRAP in private, behind closed doors. But NOOOOOOOOO!!!! This is fenway-world. Lets cart the whole management team including uniformed out there.

 

Heck lets cart out some of the Fenway carnival crew that performs out front of the park "what do you think Red Sox on stilts Man".

 

"Oh I think the team is really pumped up and ready to drive right for the post season...no excuses".

 

"Thank you Red Sox on Stilts Man....thats the way we feel about it up here in the air conditioning."

 

GIVE.... ME.... A..... BREAK!

 

All they did is end up covered in egg on their faces, deep enough to take the rest of the season just to clean off and they deserve it. Right in the middle of hot, stuffy steamy rotten egg summer to boot.

 

Henry was actually the only shocker to me. I don't know if DD and Kennedy convinced him he should add something or if he did it on his own. The entire bunch of them should have said NOTHING for public consumption.

 

Will they learn from it....doubt it.

Edited August 4, 2019 by jung