Chavis

[sk7326]

Chavis' biggest problem is the fastball. And in today's game, that is a killer. He has not proven to be able to hit a high fastball. This is in absolute contradiction to almost all other minor leaguers coming up. Chavis is a low ball fastball or a breaking ball hitter. He is gonna see heat in the upper part of the zone until he proves he can hit it

 

He has also shown he can lay off of it.

[sk7326]

Through Michael Chavis' first 38 games the Red Sox are 30-29 on the season.

 

Through Will Middlebrooks' first 38 games the Red Sox were 36-33 on the season en route to a 69-93 finish.

 

History is unlikely to repeat.

 

Nevertheless the parallels remain interesting:

 

Michael Chavis was 23 years, 252 days old, when he made his MLB debut in Game 21 of the 2019 season nearly five years after being drafted out of high school as a righthanded power-hitting infielder.

 

Will Middlebrooks was 23 years, 236 days old when he made his MLB debut in Game 24 of the 2012 season nearly five years after being drafted out of high school as a righthanded power-hitting infielder.

 

Middlebrooks was a better athlete. Really that he got to the bigs that quickly was a testament to that. He was a two sport guy who just had not played all that much baseball. Chavis has played more baseball than Middlebrooks has, and it does show in the more mature approach at the plate.

[illinoisredsox]

f*** ruth.

Until 1931, balls bouncing over the fence were counted as home runs

 

1929 in the AL.

 

But other rules took legit homers off the boards as well. A ball that hooked foul after passing the foul pole in fair territory was considered a foul ball. If a batter came up in a walk-off situation and hit an over the fence homer, he only got credit for the number of bases needed to win the game. So if the winning run was on third and a batter hit one over the fence, he got credit for a single.

 

There's no real way to compare the totals. Ruth hit 714 by the rules of his time. Aaron hot 755 by the rules of his time.

[moonslav59]

1929 in the AL.

 

But other rules took legit homers off the boards as well. A ball that hooked foul after passing the foul pole in fair territory was considered a foul ball. If a batter came up in a walk-off situation and hit an over the fence homer, he only got credit for the number of bases needed to win the game. So if the winning run was on third and a batter hit one over the fence, he got credit for a single.

 

There's no real way to compare the totals. Ruth hit 714 by the rules of his time. Aaron hot 755 by the rules of his time.

 

Interesting.

 

Thanks.

[notin]

1929 in the AL.

 

But other rules took legit homers off the boards as well. A ball that hooked foul after passing the foul pole in fair territory was considered foul

 

 

Well, there were no foul poles. But you are talking about the “last seen fair” rule. Basically any ball hit into the stands had to land in fair territory in the stands. Stadiums ran ropes through the stands as an extension of foul lines...

[Swiharts Ghost]

I know Pedey and Chavis have different approaches but as I remember he struggled pretty badly when promoted and then settled in .I don't think Chavis bat speed will fade and although he looks lost at times he's a real talent be patient .

[moonslav59]

I know Pedey and Chavis have different approaches but as I remember he struggled pretty badly when promoted and then settled in .I don't think Chavis bat speed will fade and although he looks lost at times he's a real talent be patient .

 

How long would you stick with him as a starter?

 

Assuming he hits at a .550-.600 OPS or worse going forward. 2 weeks more? 3? 4? Less?

[jacksonianmarch]

I know Pedey and Chavis have different approaches but as I remember he struggled pretty badly when promoted and then settled in .I don't think Chavis bat speed will fade and although he looks lost at times he's a real talent be patient .

 

Pedey had trouble adjusting which is true. But I doubt Pedey had a singular hole in his swing like Chavis does. Chavis is almost an auto out if you throw high heat. He needs to go down to the minors and fix it. Everyone knows it now. Everyone is going up there now. And because Chavis is aware of it and trying to cheat up to it, he’s now vulnerable everywhere

[oldtimer]

Pedey had trouble adjusting which is true. But I doubt Pedey had a singular hole in his swing like Chavis does. Chavis is almost an auto out if you throw high heat. He needs to go down to the minors and fix it. Everyone knows it now. Everyone is going up there now. And because Chavis is aware of it and trying to cheat up to it, he’s now vulnerable everywhere

 

I tend to agree with this assessment. He has bat speed and power but does need to work this problem out and preferably not at the expense of the Sox. When Moreland gets back we will have enough options to allow the luxury of having Chavis back in the minors for a while.

[notin]

I tend to agree with this assessment. He has bat speed and power but does need to work this problem out and preferably not at the expense of the Sox. When Moreland gets back we will have enough options to allow the luxury of having Chavis back in the minors for a while.

 

 

With Holt and Nunez both hitting, it’s very possible.

 

But part of me questions exactly what Sam Travis brings to a major league team...

[OH FOY]

Just worried Chavis starts pressing. Not good for a kid. Major League Teams, will not stop going against his weakness, that's what they do. Sure he'll hit mistakes, but wont get that many in the Majors.

Up here you adjust quickly, that's what's tough for a Rookie.

[harmony]

Michael Chavis and Will Middlebrooks in a comparison of the first 38 games of their respective MLB careers:

 

MC 165 PA, .264/.358/.500/.858, 49 K, 18 BB, 22 R, 10 HR, 28 RBI

WM 145 PA, .316/.352/.551/.903, 37 K, 7 BB, 20 R, 8 HR, 31 RBI

Michael Chavis and Will Middlebrooks in a comparison of the first 41 games of their respective MLB careers:

 

MC 178 PA, .248/.337/.465/.802, 57 K, 18 BB, 22 R, 10 HR, 28 RBI

WM 156 PA, .326/.365/.583/.949, 37 K, 8 BB, 23 R, 9 HR, 34 RBI

[Bellhorn04]

Michael Chavis and Will Middlebrooks in a comparison of the first 41 games of their respective MLB careers:

 

MC 178 PA, .248/.337/.465/.802, 57 K, 18 BB, 22 R, 10 HR, 28 RBI

WM 156 PA, .326/.365/.583/.949, 37 K, 8 BB, 23 R, 9 HR, 34 RBI

 

You can stop now, please. Chavis has officially turned back into the proverbial pumpkin.

[Slasher9]

You can stop now, please. Chavis has officially turned back into the proverbial pumpkin.

 

i kind of like it. although i am not sure why we are comparing a 3bman to a 2bman??

maybe we need to see devers vs WMB???

[Bellhorn04]

i kind of like it. although i am not sure why we are comparing a 3bman to a 2bman??

maybe we need to see devers vs WMB???

 

Personally I'd be fine with no more comps to documented bust WMB.

[notin]

Michael Chavis and Will Middlebrooks in a comparison of the first 41 games of their respective MLB careers:

 

MC 178 PA, .248/.337/.465/.802, 57 K, 18 BB, 22 R, 10 HR, 28 RBI

WM 156 PA, .326/.365/.583/.949, 37 K, 8 BB, 23 R, 9 HR, 34 RBI

 

When do we get to see Chavis compared to former Mariners top 3b prospect DJ Peterson?

 

 

Or how about Kyle Seager, who had a .691 OPS through 53 games his first year at the same age as Chavis?

[harmony]

i kind of like it. although i am not sure why we are comparing a 3bman to a 2bman??

maybe we need to see devers vs WMB???

In the minors Michael Chavis played 250 games at third base, 15 at shortstop, 13 at first base and zero at second base:

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=chavis000mic

 

The Red Sox moved Chavis to second base to address a specific need.

 

Michael Chavis, Will Middlebrooks and Rafael Devers in a comparison of the first 41 games of their respective MLB careers:

 

MC 178 PA, .248/.337/.465/.802, 57 K, 18 BB, 22 R, 10 HR, 28 RBI

WM 156 PA, .326/.365/.583/.949, 37 K, 8 BB, 23 R, 9 HR, 34 RBI

RD 168 PA, .299/.357/.506/.864, 40 K, 14 BB, 26 R, 8 HR, 18 RBI

 

The comparisons will no longer be offered absent a clear request.

[harmony]

When do we get to see Chavis compared to former Mariners top 3b prospect DJ Peterson?

 

 

Or how about Kyle Seager, who had a .691 OPS through 53 games his first year at the same age as Chavis?

The requests keep rolling in:

 

MC 41G, 178 PA, .248/.337/.465/.802, 57 K, 18 BB, 22 R, 10 HR, 28 RBI

WM 41G, 156 PA, .326/.365/.583/.949, 37 K, 8 BB, 23 R, 9 HR, 34 RBI

RD 41G, 168 PA, .299/.357/.506/.864, 40 K, 14 BB, 26 R, 8 HR, 18 RBI

KS 41G, 154 PA, .264/.314/.371/.685, 32 K, 9 BB, 15 R, 2 HR, 7 RBI

 

Like 20-year-old Red Sox pitching prospect Jay Groome, 27-year-old D.J. Peterson was a No. 12 overall pick who has yet to play an MLB game.

[moonslav59]

Personally I'd be fine with no more comps to documented bust WMB.

 

Agreed. We all pretty much know the career trajectory of WMB.

 

Using an example of a flash in the pan for every player who looks strong out of the gate is not all that useful. Yes, it reminds us that small sample sizes can be very deceiving, but over and over a again gets tedious.

 

[Slasher9]

Agreed. We all pretty much know the career trajectory of WMB.

 

Using an example of a flash in the pan for every player who looks strong out of the gate is not all that useful. Yes, it reminds us that small sample sizes can be very deceiving, but over and over a again gets tedious.

 

 

yes. of course. but it is a pretty darn good...nay...pro... troll job by harmony. i can respekt it.

[Bellhorn04]

Like 20-year-old Red Sox pitching prospect Jay Groome, 27-year-old D.J. Peterson was a No. 12 overall pick who has yet to play an MLB game.

 

Classic, harmony.

[notin]

 

Like 20-year-old Red Sox pitching prospect Jay Groome, 27-year-old D.J. Peterson was a No. 12 overall pick who has yet to play an MLB game.

 

Groome hasn’t played an MLB game yet at 20???!? What a bust!!

[tom-uk]

Hey Harm, Here is one for you. Higher career fWAR?

WMB 1.0, Ryan Lavarnway -1.4, Jesus Montero -2.4 JM bashed in his first call up. Few predicted his career path.

[mvp 78]

Hey Harm, Here is one for you. Higher career fWAR?

WMB 1.0, Ryan Lavarnway -1.4, Jesus Montero -2.4 JM bashed in his first call up. Few predicted his career path.

 

Easy now. Ryan Labarnway was "the Real Deal".

[harmony]

Hey Harm, Here is one for you. Higher career fWAR?

WMB 1.0, Ryan Lavarnway -1.4, Jesus Montero -2.4 JM bashed in his first call up. Few predicted his career path.

When it comes to busts, it's hard to top Jesus Montero (who has my sympathies nonetheless).

[mvp 78]

When it comes to busts, it's hard to top Jesus Montero (who has my sympathies nonetheless).

 

Not everyone can have a great career the way Jeff Clement did!

[FredLynn]

In the minors Michael Chavis played 250 games at third base, 15 at shortstop, 13 at first base and zero at second base:

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=chavis000mic

 

The Red Sox moved Chavis to second base to address a specific need.

 

Michael Chavis, Will Middlebrooks and Rafael Devers in a comparison of the first 41 games of their respective MLB careers:

 

MC 178 PA, .248/.337/.465/.802, 57 K, 18 BB, 22 R, 10 HR, 28 RBI

WM 156 PA, .326/.365/.583/.949, 37 K, 8 BB, 23 R, 9 HR, 34 RBI

RD 168 PA, .299/.357/.506/.864, 40 K, 14 BB, 26 R, 8 HR, 18 RBI

 

The comparisons will no longer be offered absent a clear request.

 

I think we all appreciate the gesture Harmony inasmuch as the comparisons always seem to denigrate Red Sox prospects.

[moonslav59]

I think we all appreciate the gesture Harmony inasmuch as the comparisons always seem to denigrate Red Sox prospects.

 

Right. It's always a comp to a flame out.

[harmony]

I think we all appreciate the gesture Harmony inasmuch as the comparisons always seem to denigrate Red Sox prospects.

Comparisons have not been limited to those that cast Michael Chavis in a negative light. On May 21:

 

Through first 26 MLB games:

 

WM 106 PA, .314/.340/.559/.898. 14 R, 6 HR, 22 RBI

MC 113 PA, .296/.389/.592/.981, 17 R, 9 HR, 24 RBI

https://www.talksox.com/forum/threads/19013-A-Realistic-View-at-2019-Part-I?p=1242670#post1242670

 

Objectivity is a heavy cross to bear.

[notin]

Comparisons have not been limited to those that cast Michael Chavis in a negative light. On May 21:

 

 

https://www.talksox.com/forum/threads/19013-A-Realistic-View-at-2019-Part-I?p=1242670#post1242670

 

Objectivity is a heavy cross to bear.

 

Counselor, I’d like a ruling on the “objectivity” of comparing 20yo Jason Groome to 27yo DJ Peterson...