Pedroia out with renewed left knee pain

[Bellhorn04]

I don’t get all this whining about Pedroia trying to come back repeatedly if he’s done. Let him try. He’ll probably spend 2 1/2 years on the 60 day DL where he takes no roster spots from anyone at any level, and he won’t prevent the Sox from signing Scooter Gennett or whoever among the available players.

 

Let Pedroia try and pay him what both parties agreed he was worth and stop pretending this is the only hamstring contract in MLB. He’s not hurting anyone. Except maybe his own knees...

 

Agree 100%.

[moonslav59]

If Pedey retires and the Sox hire him as a consultant or in some other capacity, how much would they pay him? That's the whole crux of the issue. If they pay him market rate for that position, there wouldn't be any issues. But if they pay him $10 million a year for 2 years, then it becomes an obvious attempt to circumvent the luxury tax.

 

What if they signed him to $30M for a 20-30 year consultant's contract?

[Bellhorn04]

What if they signed him to $30M for a 20-30 year consultant's contract?

 

Nobody signs a consultant to a 20-30 year contract.

 

Anything out of the ordinary would be looked at skeptically in this situation.

 

Keep in mind that the team and Pedroia would have to agree to this sort of deal BEFORE he retires. Which is a problem.

[moonslav59]

Nobody signs a consultant to a 20-30 year contract.

 

Anything out of the ordinary would be looked at skeptically in this situation.

 

Keep in mind that the team and Pedroia would both have to agree with this sort of deal BEFORE he retires. Which is a problem.

 

I get the fact that there would be a "problem" and the league would look at any type of "wink-wink" deal very closely.

 

Maybe the best any of us can hope for is that Pedey decides to retire, and the Sox (wink-wink or otherwise) compensate him by paying him a little more than the norm to be a consultant or coach for longer than one might expect, even if it is just a never-ending one year contract that pays him part of what he gave up by retiring.

 

I've never claimed my idea will surely work. First, Pedey has to be on board. Second, it must not look so obvious to the league that they are circumventing the rules. That could be a difficult or impossible task.

 

I could see Pedey trying to do something to help the team's budget issues, but I don't expect him to give up everything like Dempster did.

 

[illinoisredsox]

If the Yankees announced today that Ellsbury was retiring but would be come a base running coach/consultant for $35 million (about what they still owe him) for, oh, the next 10 years, everyone here would be screaming bloody murder.

 

The Red Sox and Pedroia signed a contract and each has to live up to the terms of the contract. The Sox have to pay him, and Pedey has to try and do whatever it takes to be able to take the field, even if he physically can't. There is no way around it unless Pedroia voluntarily walks away.

[moonslav59]

If the Yankees announced today that Ellsbury was retiring but would be come a base running coach/consultant for $35 million (about what they still owe him) for, oh, the next 10 years, everyone here would be screaming bloody murder.

 

The Red Sox and Pedroia signed a contract and each has to live up to the terms of the contract. The Sox have to pay him, and Pedey has to try and do whatever it takes to be able to take the field, even if he physically can't. There is no way around it unless Pedroia voluntarily walks away.

 

Nobody is suggesting anything that absurd.

[notin]

Nobody is suggesting anything that absurd.

 

 

Suggesting a 30 year commitment to resolve a “problem” that will go away in 2 years isn’t absurd?

 

Maybe the Sox should have signed Sandoval to a 51 year consultant contract as well...

[moonslav59]

suggesting a 30 year commitment to resolve a “problem” that will go away in 2 years isn’t absurd?

 

Maybe the sox should have signed sandoval to a 51 year consultant contract as well...

 

lol.

[jad]

This sounds like an exchange we all had as Middle school kids about the most amazing ingenious foolproof brilliant kick-ass ways to avoid parental curfews. "I mean like you see you set the CLOCKS back, get it? Then they'll never know and ..."

[S5Dewey]

Here's what I don't get about the CBA refarding the Sox and Pedey's contract.

 

Are posters (Jax especially) saying that the CBA prevents the Sox from buying out Pedey's contract? Because it seems like I remember player's contracts being bought out before. (Don't ask... I can't document it... just my old memory).

 

And if they buy him out doesn't he then become unencumbered and able to sign and do whatever he chooses? Can you spell "restraint of trade"?

 

I get the collusion aspect of it... that Pedey and the Sox couldn't collude before the buyout to have it happen, but there are a lot of "hypothetical situations" that could be "discussed" without it being collusion. Collusion can be a very difficult thing to prove.

[Bellhorn04]

Nobody is suggesting anything that absurd.

 

What's the difference between that Ellsbury scenario and your Pedroia scenario?

[Slasher9]

Here's what I don't get about the CBA refarding the Sox and Pedey's contract.

 

Are posters (Jax especially) saying that the CBA prevents the Sox from buying out Pedey's contract? Because it seems like I remember player's contracts being bought out before. (Don't ask... I can't document it... just my old memory).

 

And if they buy him out doesn't he then become unencumbered and able to sign and do whatever he chooses? Can you spell "restraint of trade"?

 

I get the collusion aspect of it... that Pedey and the Sox couldn't collude before the buyout to have it happen, but there are a lot of "hypothetical situations" that could be "discussed" without it being collusion. Collusion can be a very difficult thing to prove.

 

They can buyout his contract but the original amount is on the books for tax purposes. And I think that is what Moon is trying to circumvent. I don’t know if the players union would let them buyout for much less anyway.

[Bellhorn04]

Here's what I don't get about the CBA refarding the Sox and Pedey's contract.

 

Are posters (Jax especially) saying that the CBA prevents the Sox from buying out Pedey's contract? Because it seems like I remember player's contracts being bought out before. (Don't ask... I can't document it... just my old memory).

 

In 2012 the Red Sox settled with Bobby Jenks on a contract termination. I think they may have saved $1 million or something like that?

 

But I think the reason none of us can remember a notable example of this happening is that it hasn't happened.

[Bellhorn04]

A-Rod's contract with the Yanks ran through 2017. In 2016 they released him. They then hired him to a new contract for 2017 as a 'special advisor'. But I don't think this had any effect on A-Rod's payroll cost for tax purposes. I think the speculation was that the release and the advisor contract were just preventative measures to keep him from trying to play for the Yanks in 2017 LOL.

[notin]

In 2012 the Red Sox settled with Bobby Jenks on a contract termination. I think they may have saved $1 million or something like that?

 

But I think the reason none of us can remember a notable example of this happening is that it hasn't happened.

 

2012 was the last year of Jenks’ 2 year deal anyway. He signed a 2year $12mill contract.

 

Jenks did sue the hospital where his surgery was performed for $5mill, but I don’t think the Sox paid that amount in lieu of his salary. Likely Jenks collected both.

 

Contract buyouts are common in the NBA, but not in MLB. We’ve all seen the Sox ride out unproductive contracts before, including Crawford, Lansing and Sandoval (If MLB contract buyouts were possible, someone tell me why none of these were.) Not sure why this Pedroia deal requires this much attention...

[Bellhorn04]

What's getting a little buried in all this is that if Pedroia can't play any more, I wouldn't be surprised if he does try to work out something with the team where he stays on in another capacity.

[S5Dewey]

In 2012 the Red Sox settled with Bobby Jenks on a contract termination. I think they may have saved $1 million or something like that?

 

But I think the reason none of us can remember a notable example of this happening is that it hasn't happened.

 

Let me preface this with saying that I spent all my working life as a member of a labor union. I've served on the Executive board for many years and was involved in negotiating more than one contract at my plant of more than 1000 employees. So I believe in labor unions. Now...

 

At the risk of going off on a tangent here, it's occurred to me that the MLPBA has an unusual relationship with its players. They're neither hay nor chaff, as we like to say up here in the Northeast. They're not considered to be the 'sole bargaining agent' for the players because if they were all players in the same general circumstances would get the same pay. At the same time they're able to dictate player's minimum salaries and how players and management can restructure a contract.

It would seem that the MLBPA has taken over the decisions a player can make in regard to the end of their careers, at a time when the players would want more flexibility.

[jacksonianmarch]

A-Rod's contract with the Yanks ran through 2017. In 2016 they released him. They then hired him to a new contract for 2017 as a 'special advisor'. But I don't think this had any effect on A-Rod's payroll cost for tax purposes. I think the speculation was that the release and the advisor contract were just preventative measures to keep him from trying to play for the Yanks in 2017 LOL.

 

It has literally no effect on the lux tax. The yanks were on the hook for the $27 mil AAV through the end of 2017

[Bellhorn04]

2012 was the last year of Jenks’ 2 year deal anyway. He signed a 2year $12mill contract.

 

Jenks did sue the hospital where his surgery was performed for $5mill, but I don’t think the Sox paid that amount in lieu of his salary. Likely Jenks collected both.

 

If my memory serves correctly, though, the Sox did recoup a million or something like that.

[S5Dewey]

What's getting a little buried in all this is that if Pedroia can't play any more, I wouldn't be surprised if he does try to work out something with the team where he stays on in another capacity.

 

This would make everyone happy. The problem here is the MLPBA and what they'd "allow".

[Bellhorn04]

This would make everyone happy. The problem here is the MLPBA and what they'd "allow".

 

There's the MLBPA's concerns, and there's also MLB's concerns with the luxury tax.

[notin]

There's the MLBPA's concerns, and there's also MLB's concerns with the luxury tax.

 

 

And the concerns over why this is a big deal to a lot of people.

 

The Sox can’t do anything like buy him out. If they could, they would have done it with Sandoval.

 

Pedroia isn’t going to play again and will probably spend 2+ years on the 60 day DL, where he takes no 25 man nor 40 man roster spots from anyone. He will get paid because both parties agreed on this years ago and both knew well in advance something like this was possible.

 

We’ve seen the Sox ride out unproductive contracts before. We will again. This is hardly some sort of freakish situation. And the best solution the only one - ride out the deal and stop whining. Why is this one getting so much bizarre attention and so many unique “solution” proposals?

[Slasher9]

Actually I don't think the pay is the issue.

 

As it is today, Pedey is required to put in the therapy and the work in an effort to get back to playing at a MLB level hobbled by an injury and subsequent surgery that nobody has ever played MLB with before. If Pedey is insistent on continuing his career as a player then the Sox MUST honor his contract as a player and oh by the way Pedey MUST honor the same contract.

 

In the meantime, we know he is not coming back. If he could come back it would have happened by now. Pedey himself admitted that if he could not come back from the long initial therapy and rehab stint then IT WAS OVER. Well that did not work out. Yet its not over???? We are now onto version 3 of therapy and rehab stints past when Pedey said it would be over. Who is kidding who? This is a charade that satisfies nobody and nothing. Pedey comes back. He exerts the kind of stress that only play at the highest level exerts. Pedey goes down again.

 

At the same time, we have a guy playing 2nd here that has no earthly idea what he is doing playing 2nd base and even if and when Holt comes back, the best the Sox get is Holt sharing time with Chavis at 2nd and Chavis sharing time with Moreland at 1st or Chavis continues on the path he is on for this year which is frankly not encouraging at the plate. The leagues pitchers are figuring him out and he is simply not READY to face MLB pitching day in and day out. They don't give out runs based on how far the ball went over the fence, just whether it went over or not. So maybe Pearce gets right and we really only want Chavis sharing time with Holt at 2nd.

 

Clearly Pedey has been schooling Devers when Pedey is here and clearly Chavis is just guessing at 2nd base. Its a joke. Gurriel at 2nd is also a joke by the way. But at least Gurriel is a full grown man, real live MLB player. I don't know if I want Chavis sharing time with Moreland. But it appears the Sox want to keep playing Chavis at 2nd regardless of the fact that he is lost out there and Holt is too fragile and Nunez is a horrid 2nd baseman. Does Pedey really want to continue to try to play until it puts him back on an operating table again. Suppose just trotting around as an aging human being becomes a problem for Pedey over this silly charade.

.

He doesn’t have to do any of this stuff to get paid. See: Wright, David

[Slasher9]

I don’t get all this whining about Pedroia trying to come back repeatedly if he’s done. Let him try. He’ll probably spend 2 1/2 years on the 60 day DL where he takes no roster spots from anyone at any level, and he won’t prevent the Sox from signing Scooter Gennett or whoever among the available players.

 

Let Pedroia try and pay him what both parties agreed he was worth and stop pretending this is the only hamstring contract in MLB. He’s not hurting anyone. Except maybe his own knees...

 

I couldn’t care less if pedroia rehabs right up until the last day of his contract or if he spends the next 3 years playing golf. The joke to me is how much airtime the NESN broadcast spends hyping up a pedroia return. It’s a f***ing joke. Stope the nonsense. No one is buying pedroia jerseys anymore. Enough with the fake hype.

#hesdone

[S5Dewey]

And the concerns over why this is a big deal to a lot of people.

 

Why is this one getting so much bizarre attention and so many unique “solution” proposals?

 

To answer the question, two reasons:

 

It's because of the LT implications and the fact that the Sox are as close as they are to the upper limit.

 

It's because even JH has a limit as to how much he'll spend, and the less he has to spend on Pedroia the more he has to spend on players who'll actually help the team.

 

Edit to add a 3rd reason:

Most people here (I think) don't just want to cut ties with Pedroia, possibly out of nostalgia or "fairness" but at the same time want to restructure his pay somehow to keep him a part of the team as a coach, "special consultant" or whatever.

Edited May 27, 2019 by S5Dewey

[Bellhorn04]

To answer the question, two reasons:

 

It's because of the LT implications and the fact that the Sox are as close as they are to the upper limit.

 

It's because even JH has a limit as to how much he'll spend, and the less he has to spend on Pedroia the more he has to spend on players who'll actually help the team.

 

Edit to add a 3rd reason:

Most people here (I think) don't just want to cut ties with Pedroia, possibly out of nostalgia or "fairness" but at the same time want to restructure his pay somehow to keep him a part of the team as a coach, "special consultant" or whatever.

 

#4, and possibly most important, it's something to jibber-jabber about between games.

[moonslav59]

What's the difference between that Ellsbury scenario and your Pedroia scenario?

 

Ellsbury is dumber than a door nail.

[notin]

To answer the question, two reasons:

 

It's because of the LT implications and the fact that the Sox are as close as they are to the upper limit.

 

It's because even JH has a limit as to how much he'll spend, and the less he has to spend on Pedroia the more he has to spend on players who'll actually help the team.

 

Edit to add a 3rd reason:

Most people here (I think) don't just want to cut ties with Pedroia, possibly out of nostalgia or "fairness" but at the same time want to restructure his pay somehow to keep him a part of the team as a coach, "special consultant" or whatever.

 

While the Sox do have spending limits, there are some $225mill spent on non-Pedroia players. And if free agency has taught you nothing else, you should have learned by now that merely spending on a free agent doesn’t always help the team. The list is long and affects nearly every team nearly every year.

 

If it helps, think of spending $14 mill on Pedroia as a preventive measure that will keep DD from wasting it on another player who not only won’t help the team, but also won’t be gone in two years.

 

The whole coach angle, if both sides wasn’t it, isn’t going to affect the luxury tax unless Pedroia willingly gives up about $25mill that the Sox agreed to pay him despite knowing the risks. And considering Pedroia did win an MVP award while making league minimum, I’d say he earned it. Let’s call it overdue backpay...

Edited May 27, 2019 by notin

[Bellhorn04]

Ellsbury is dumber than a door nail.

 

And Pedey is a Rhodes Scholar?

[oldtimer]

When Pedroia signed the contract extension, in July 2013, he was neither clearly on the downswing nor with any obvious potential medical issues.

 

Pedroia was given an 8 year extension when he was 30. I am generally opposed to contracts over 5 years for a 30 year old. Whiie its true his initial OPS was still healthy, joint issues to knees where bone is on bone don't develop overnight. My belief is that the Sox missed or ignored the likely increasing degredation of Pedey as a player. The reality is that Pedey's value to the club was still acceptable for the first 3 years of the contract and has dropped to zero now. Probably lower than zero because his contract $'s diminish any chance of obtaining a suitable replacement at that position.