What are the chances of Porcello being offered a contract extension?

[notin]

it's not the dimensions of the ballpark that i was talking about. it was the pressure of Boston. i know you dont agree with this at all but it is my opinion and i truly believe it. some players can handle big market/bright lights/media pressure and some players are much better off playing in the milwaukees and san diegos of the world....

 

You’re right. I don’t buy that.

 

Shaw wasn’t a flop in Boston. The biggest change (besides the home runs from the shorter distance to right-center) was Shaw suddenly started taking more walks. His individual BAs in Boston are almost identical to the ones in Milwaukee.

 

I think it’s more a matter of a player gaining experience, making adjustments, and reaching his peak years.

 

Unless the media was pressuring him to walk less...

[Slasher9]

I don't disagree, but sometimes I think it is overblown. Some players are labelled non spot light players after a very short sample size- often very early in the player's career, and they never get a chance to prove otherwise.

 

fair point. shaw just seems like that kind of guy to me. perhaps i am judging too harshly/quickly. but....thats what i do.

[Bellhorn04]

I don't disagree, but sometimes I think it is overblown. Some players are labelled non spot light players after a very short sample size- often very early in the player's career, and they never get a chance to prove otherwise.

 

It does happen. The Yankees gave up on Sonny Gray and Cashman pretty much said the guy had bright lights issues.

[TylerD]

Meh all this talk is pointless, we are resigning Porcello and that's that. Sox organization will make the right decision Instead of a complete dumb ass decision by letting him walk.

[vegasbob]

Meh all this talk is pointless, we are resigning Porcello and that's that. Sox organization will make the right decision Instead of a complete dumb ass decision by letting him walk.

 

If Dave D is thinking or already determined that the Sox will not resign Porcello, it's hard to believe that he will not move Rick by the trade deadline to a contender needing a steady arm. This should be done regardless of whether the Sox are contending or not, to get value from Rick. It would be strange to let him play out the season wherever the Sox end up and then turn Porcello loose over the 2019/2020 winter. Please note, this does not advocate trading him, unless DD won't make a valid run at him for an extension , sooner than later.

[vegasbob]

It does happen. The Yankees gave up on Sonny Gray and Cashman pretty much said the guy had bright lights issues.

 

Aren't Boston fans and more so media well known for loving some and blinding others ? Some can deal with it and prosper. Others get sunburned quickly. Plenty of examples both ways. I'm sure all of us can contribute a few. For starters, try Carl Crawford as a loser, throw in Buchholz too as a sensitive guy, Adrian Gonzalez may fit as one who didn't like being in Boston.. On the plus side, Ortiz comes to mind. Bogey and now Devers are young guys who have made a mark all the way through World Series wins. Schilling rose to occasion , as did Tiant and Pedro.

 

Guys who matured in losing team , small market organization would be risk factors coming to the AL East.

[TylerD]

If Dave D is thinking or already determined that the Sox will not resign Porcello, it's hard to believe that he will not move Rick by the trade deadline to a contender needing a steady arm. This should be done regardless of whether the Sox are contending or not, to get value from Rick. It would be strange to let him play out the season wherever the Sox end up and then turn Porcello loose over the 2019/2020 winter. Please note, this does not advocate trading him, unless DD won't make a valid run at him for an extension , sooner than later.

 

Fair point. Guess it remains to be seen how the Sox do down the stretch. Granted we aren't playing our best baseball we are in a playoff spot as it stands right now. Unless we start spiraling completely downward I personally don't want to see a ton of changes. This is the team that won us a World Series and it's not like we are horrible this season. At this point making the playoffs is all that counts. Yes winning the division would be nice, but I will take our chances in a 1 Wild Card game against Tampa or Texas or Oakland.

 

(Hell... even the White Sox are just a couple games back of a playoff spot, I know it's early but.... weird)

[notin]

If Dave D is thinking or already determined that the Sox will not resign Porcello, it's hard to believe that he will not move Rick by the trade deadline to a contender needing a steady arm. This should be done regardless of whether the Sox are contending or not, to get value from Rick. It would be strange to let him play out the season wherever the Sox end up and then turn Porcello loose over the 2019/2020 winter. Please note, this does not advocate trading him, unless DD won't make a valid run at him for an extension , sooner than later.

 

 

So the Sox should replace him in the rotation with who?

[notin]

Aren't Boston fans and more so media well known for loving some and blinding others ? Some can deal with it and prosper. Others get sunburned quickly. Plenty of examples both ways. I'm sure all of us can contribute a few. For starters, try Carl Crawford as a loser, throw in Buchholz too as a sensitive guy, Adrian Gonzalez may fit as one who didn't like being in Boston.. On the plus side, Ortiz comes to mind. Bogey and now Devers are young guys who have made a mark all the way through World Series wins. Schilling rose to occasion , as did Tiant and Pedro.

 

Guys who matured in losing team , small market organization would be risk factors coming to the AL East.

 

 

So Pedro’s starting his career in Montreal should have been a huge red flag? And Ramiro Mendoza should have been a rousing success?

 

In fact, Ortiz came from Minnesota, which was as small as it got back then.

 

I think the broad brush you’re painting with here might not be the best guideline...

Edited June 5, 2019 by notin

[notin]

It does happen. The Yankees gave up on Sonny Gray and Cashman pretty much said the guy had bright lights issues.

 

 

I think it’s more rare than people realize and gets used too often and too quickly any time a player doesn’t make an immediate and meaningful impact. Sometimes players just have slumps and bad seasons unrelated to the media.

 

Heck the league is loaded with Dominican players, many of whom don’t speak English or only speak it minimally and can’t understand the media anyway. Yet somehow the “pressure of Boston” gets to them?

[Slasher9]

can’t understand the media anyway. Yet somehow the “pressure of Boston” gets to them?

 

yes.

you walk into Fenway Park and it's packed. every night. you walk into the locker room and there are dozens of cameras, tv reporters, print reporters, VIP's, hangers on.

you walk onto Landsdowne street and are mobbed for autographs.

i bet travis can do his own food shopping in milwaukee without anyone approaching him. definitely no one yelling "you suck" cause he k'd with LOB's the night before. not in Milwaukee.

if you thinking playing in Boston or the Bronx is the same as playing in Milwaukee it's not worth it to even continue the discussion.

[moonslav59]

If Dave D is thinking or already determined that the Sox will not resign Porcello, it's hard to believe that he will not move Rick by the trade deadline to a contender needing a steady arm. This should be done regardless of whether the Sox are contending or not, to get value from Rick. It would be strange to let him play out the season wherever the Sox end up and then turn Porcello loose over the 2019/2020 winter. Please note, this does not advocate trading him, unless DD won't make a valid run at him for an extension , sooner than later.

 

Kepping him, winning another ring, and then getting a comp pick after offering him a 1 year deal might not be bad.

[notin]

yes.

you walk into Fenway Park and it's packed. every night. you walk into the locker room and there are dozens of cameras, tv reporters, print reporters, VIP's, hangers on.

you walk onto Landsdowne street and are mobbed for autographs.

i bet travis can do his own food shopping in milwaukee without anyone approaching him. definitely no one yelling "you suck" cause he k'd with LOB's the night before. not in Milwaukee.

if you thinking playing in Boston or the Bronx is the same as playing in Milwaukee it's not worth it to even continue the discussion.

 

You do realize Milwaukee has been right behind Boston in attendance the last two seasons? Last year, the Brewers drew 45,000 less than the Red Sox. That’s piddling.

 

As much as Sox fans like to think they’re equal in size and intensity to New York, Los Angeles and Chicago and the rest of the league is a bunch of small towns, that’s not reality.

 

Wisconsin fans are also crazy. They put an NFL team in Green Bay and it sells out. Green Bay! Ever been to Green Bay? It’s 2 hours from Milwaukee and about 100 years in the past! Geographically it would be like putting the Patriots in Springfield MA (but with 33% fewer people) and hoping people come from Boston for games.

 

Boston isn’t the only city where fans recognize their players. It might be the only one where a player took public transportation to get to games, however...

[mvp 78]

You do realize Milwaukee has been right behind Boston in attendance the last two seasons? Last year, the Brewers drew 45,000 less than the Red Sox. That’s piddling.

 

As much as Sox fans like to think they’re equal in size and intensity to New York, Los Angeles and Chicago and the rest of the league is a bunch of small towns, that’s not reality.

 

Wisconsin fans are also crazy. They put an NFL team in Green Bay and it sells out. Green Bay! Ever been to Green Bay? It’s 2 hours from Milwaukee and about 100 years in the past! Geographically it would be like putting the Patriots in Springfield MA (but with 33% fewer people) and hoping people come from Boston for games.

 

Boston isn’t the only city where fans recognize their players. It might be the only one where a player took public transportation to get to games, however...

 

Just please overlook the fact that Miller Park can hold almost 4,000 more fans per game! That doesn't impact the numbers at all!

 

Since 2002, The Sox have been 4th or better in their League in attendance every year but one. The Brewers have been 4th or better only twice in that same time period.

[mvp 78]

Let's also not mention that over 3x as many viewers watch a typical Sox game than a typical Brewers game. Not relevant!

[Bellhorn04]

Let's also not mention that over 3x as many viewers watch a typical Sox game than a typical Brewers game. Not relevant!

 

And then there's the obsessive, demanding nature of the fans and media.

[notin]

Just please overlook the fact that Miller Park can hold almost 4,000 more fans per game! That doesn't impact the numbers at all!

 

Since 2002, The Sox have been 4th or better in their League in attendance every year but one. The Brewers have been 4th or better only twice in that same time period.

 

 

Oh please. Shaw (remember this was about Shaw) hasn’t been there since 2002.

 

And regardless of park capacity - which doesn’t help Tampa - what you’re missing is two fold. First, that you think athletes outside of Boston can walk unrecognized among the general populace like Bob Smith-Jones from Accounting.

 

But that you think media attention scares them? And it’s universal? Please. Maybe a handful of players at best. And THAT is the scariest pressure?

 

Know what I think scares more players like Shaw? The players behind them.

 

Being buried in a quarter billion dollar lineup of superstars? All Shaw had to do was field and make no money. Or sitting on a small budget team knowing if you don’t produce, Keston Hiura is coming on strong. And the fans love him more. Only because he’s younger. In Boston, maybe Shaw doesn’t win. Think he cares? He made the last out in the ALDS once and appeared unfazed. In Milwaukee, he can hit or get benched. Or worse - DFA or non-tendered like Avisail Garcia, who hit worse than Sox mgmt thought Eloy Jimenez could.

 

Heck even succeeding in a low payroll can get you run out of town on a budget train.

 

So - Boston and oh no-criticism?? Or Milwaukee and your career? Which one is more pressure?

[Slasher9]

Boston. Not even close

[notin]

Boston. Not even close

 

 

Of at best that’s just a suspicion. And certainly not one about Shaw, since he stepped in to replace possibly the worst free agent in team history, so all he had to do was keep his weight under 3 bills...

[S5Dewey]

Boston. Not even close

 

Absolutely. Always more pressure playing for a winning team.

 

Anyone can play with a bunch of losers.

[moonslav59]

Absolutely. Always more pressure playing for a winning team.

 

Anyone can play with a bunch of losers.

 

Playing for losing teams is not easy. It sucks.

[Hitch]

I wouldn't like to argue either way about if it's affected Shaw or not but there are out certainly players that thrive under different conditions and expectations. Sports stars are not robots they are human beings and open to all the pressures that come with certain situations. Some love the limelight, others wilt under it. As it's ever been.

 

Shaw didn't strike me as somebody who was struggling here, however.

[notin]

I wouldn't like to argue either way about if it's affected Shaw or not but there are out certainly players that thrive under different conditions and expectations. Sports stars are not robots they are human beings and open to all the pressures that come with certain situations. Some love the limelight, others wilt under it. As it's ever been.

 

Shaw didn't strike me as somebody who was struggling here, however.

 

 

Shaw’s first half season in Boston (.842 OPS 13 HRs in 250 ABs) was essentially the same as he has been doing in Milwaukee.

 

But as I said, this whole Boston media pressure excise gets thrown around really quickly and far, far too often. I’m surprised no one has made that comment about Chavis yet...

[Bellhorn04]

Shaw’s first half season in Boston (.842 OPS 13 HRs in 250 ABs) was essentially the same as he has been doing in Milwaukee.

 

But as I said, this whole Boston media pressure excise gets thrown around really quickly and far, far too often. I’m surprised no one has made that comment about Chavis yet...

 

I believe the actual prevailing narrative on Shaw was that his minor league numbers were not that impressive, and that when he faded in the second half in 2016 he was reverting to what he really was.

[Hitch]

 

But as I said, this whole Boston media pressure excise gets thrown around really quickly and far, far too often.

 

Possibly, yet it is very much a thing. There's more pressure playing at certain clubs and in certain markets.

[notin]

Possibly, yet it is very much a thing. There's more pressure playing at certain clubs and in certain markets.

 

But even then, what percentage of players are affected by it over the dozens of other pressures they have?

 

And certainly it doesn’t affect every player, as media attention is hardly evenly divided. Sandy Leon is not getting the same coverage as Mookie Betts...

[Slasher9]

I’m surprised no one has made that comment about Chavis yet...

 

obviously i can only speak for myself but i dont get that vibe from Chavis. he doesnt seem like a "wilter" to me....

[mvp 78]

Oh please. Shaw (remember this was about Shaw) hasn’t been there since 2002.

 

And regardless of park capacity - which doesn’t help Tampa - what you’re missing is two fold. First, that you think athletes outside of Boston can walk unrecognized among the general populace like Bob Smith-Jones from Accounting.

 

But that you think media attention scares them? And it’s universal? Please. Maybe a handful of players at best. And THAT is the scariest pressure?

 

Know what I think scares more players like Shaw? The players behind them.

 

Being buried in a quarter billion dollar lineup of superstars? All Shaw had to do was field and make no money. Or sitting on a small budget team knowing if you don’t produce, Keston Hiura is coming on strong. And the fans love him more. Only because he’s younger. In Boston, maybe Shaw doesn’t win. Think he cares? He made the last out in the ALDS once and appeared unfazed. In Milwaukee, he can hit or get benched. Or worse - DFA or non-tendered like Avisail Garcia, who hit worse than Sox mgmt thought Eloy Jimenez could.

 

Heck even succeeding in a low payroll can get you run out of town on a budget train.

 

So - Boston and oh no-criticism?? Or Milwaukee and your career? Which one is more pressure?

 

You were trying to state that Milwaukee was as great of a baseball town and nearly as obsessive as Boston. It's just not the case. Year in and year out, Fenway has a much higher percentage of seats filled and more eyeballs on the tv screen. The atmosphere in Boston and Milwaukee are just not comparable. Your original argument that "well, Milwaukee was right behind Boston in attendance" was faulty and that is what I was pointing out.

[mvp 78]

But even then, what percentage of players are affected by it over the dozens of other pressures they have?

 

And certainly it doesn’t affect every player, as media attention is hardly evenly divided. Sandy Leon is not getting the same coverage as Mookie Betts...

 

Where'd those goalposts go?

[notin]

Where'd those goalposts go?

 

I could write an entire treatise on why I think fan perception of media pressure is overblown. But I don’t think you’d want to take the time to read it. Even though I would probably color it up with a lot of profanity...