Swihart DFA

[cp176]

He’s getting paid the same regardless of where he is. If the Sox need to add an outfielder and it costs more than 40% of the taxable amount, it makes sense to just add Castillo. And it also might slightly increase chances of moving him...

 

If I had to guess, mine would be that Castillo would get the job done very well in the outfield for us or for anyone else. I have really no interest in talking about whether it would make financial sense to bring him on board or not. I looks like he has grown in to a quality player. Stuck in lodi - very sad

[Kimmi]

Swihart sucked. The only person on her who legitimately liked him was Spud and that's because he had the hots for Blake's mom. Everyone else is just making an argument just to be argumentative. Blake didn't even succeed at the AAA level. He really shouldn't have been in MLB last year.

 

SoxProspects did a long podcast about how the Sox did Swihart dirty with development and I think they really showed their ass. Just because you project someone to be good, doesn't mean it's the organizations fault if it doesn't work out.

 

But the Sox really did mess up with Swihart's development.

 

Maybe Swihart doesn't amount to anything anyway, but the Sox messed up.

[Bellhorn04]

But the Sox really did mess up with Swihart's development.

 

It's funny, when Vazquez and Swihart came up at the identical time, I wondered if it was going to result in some sort of controversy at some point.

[moonslav59]

But the Sox really did mess up with Swihart's development.

 

Maybe Swihart doesn't amount to anything anyway, but the Sox messed up.

 

Swihart messed up. He got way more chances than he ever deserved or earned.

[Bellhorn04]

Swihart messed up. He got way more chances than he ever deserved or earned.

 

You two really represent opposite ends of the spectrum LOL

[moonslav59]

You two really represent opposite ends of the spectrum LOL

 

We agree on almost everything else, so it seems strange we are polar opposites on Swihart.

 

Maybe there is a remote chance Swihart might have shown better progress or results had he stayed catching his whole time here and was given much more playing time, but I just don't see any evidence that warranted him being given more chances than he earned.

 

The options running out hurt his chances to earn his way back through high performance in the minors. That might have hurt (assuming he is better than I think he is), but it was not the team's fault.

 

The guy was not a good catcher. We gave him a chance at other positions. We held open a ML roster slot for him all last year and into the start of this year. He never took advantage of what was to me an undeserved extra chance.

 

If Swihart goes on to have a plus career, I'll be happy for him, but even if he does, I'll still think we did more for him than he earned.

 

[a700hitter]

Swihart messed up. He got way more chances than he ever deserved or earned.

I am with Moon on this. I feel bad for Swihart, but the only mess up by the Red Sox was that they greatly over-estimated his potential. He had plenty of time to bounce back from the ankle sprain.

[moonslav59]

I am with Moon on this. I feel bad for Swihart, but the only mess up by the Red Sox was that they greatly over-estimated his potential. He had plenty of time to bounce back from the ankle sprain.

 

People blame the ankle sprain on the Sox "messing him up" by making him play another position.

 

The injury was unfortunate, but I view the chance they gave him to win a slot on the team as a non-catcher as a favor to him- not an impediment or obstruction- let alone "messing" him up.

[a700hitter]

People blame the ankle sprain on the Sox "messing him up" by making him play another position.

 

The injury was unfortunate, but I view the chance they gave him to win a slot on the team as a non-catcher as a favor to him- not an impediment or obstruction- let alone "messing" him up.

Agreed. Sox management loved him and just saw something in him that didn't translate to baseball.

[cp176]

People blame the ankle sprain on the Sox "messing him up" by making him play another position.

 

The injury was unfortunate, but I view the chance they gave him to win a slot on the team as a non-catcher as a favor to him- not an impediment or obstruction- let alone "messing" him up.

 

I agree very much with you here. If Swihart had not been injured, and had gone on to be successful, somehow this would have been looked at as sheer brilliance. It just didn't work out for him. The Sox did not screw up. sometimes believe it or not stuff just happens

 

.

[Bellhorn04]

What did people envision back when Vazquez and Swihart came up together? One of them had to go at some point, right? The best case scenario was that one of them got traded for something good.

[S5Dewey]

What did people envision back when Vazquez and Swihart came up together? One of them had to go at some point, right? The best case scenario was that one of them got traded for something good.

 

That was before Leon came into the scene though, remember?

 

At that time I saw Vaz & Swi being the team's two catchers. Being a fan of Vaz' defense and recognizing what I saw as Swi being stronger offensively my fear was that the Sox were going to prioritize offense over defense and make Swi the regular catcher. But I saw the team as keeping them both until one of them aged out of the position first and crossing that bridge when they came to it.

[cp176]

That was before Leon came into the scene though, remember?

 

At that time I saw Vaz & Swi being the team's two catchers. Being a fan of Vaz' defense and recognizing what I saw as Swi being stronger offensively my fear was that the Sox were going to prioritize offense over defense and make Swi the regular catcher. But I saw the team as keeping them both until one of them aged out of the position first and crossing that bridge when they came to it.

 

I think that the Sox saw Swihart differently though. The expectation as I recall was that over time he had the potential to be the better defensive catcher of the two as well. he seemed to be the whole package. Hey - sometimes actually more often than not plans don't work out perfectly.

[Bellhorn04]

That was before Leon came into the scene though, remember?

 

But Leon was a BUC. Vaz and Swi both had futures as #1 catchers, it was thought. And you can't really have co-#1 catchers.

[notin]

But Leon was a BUC. Vaz and Swi both had futures as #1 catchers, it was thought. And you can't really have co-#1 catchers.

 

 

Why not?

 

Catchers can’t play everyday. If there was any position that should have two co-starters, it’s catcher. Yet it’s done at other positions all the time, typically based on opposing starting pitcher. But a smart catcher platoon could be based on your own starting pitcher...

[moonslav59]

Why not?

 

Catchers can’t play everyday. If there was any position that should have two co-starters, it’s catcher. Yet it’s done at other positions all the time, typically based on opposing starting pitcher. But a smart catcher platoon could be based on your own starting pitcher...

 

It was, for the most part, when nobody was hurt, Leon with Sale & Price and Vaz with the other 3.

[S5Dewey]

But Leon was a BUC. Vaz and Swi both had futures as #1 catchers, it was thought. And you can't really have co-#1 catchers.

 

Exactly. Leon was signed as a BUC to pair with Swihart until Vaz got healthy again after his TJ surgery. Then Leon went on his career 'tear' offensively and the FO fell in love with him. Once that happened and Vaz came back Swi was odd man out... but they liked his bat so they tried to find a position for him on a team that didn't have a position for him. Andyes, his being out of options played into it too. Then during that search he got injured and lost a lot of development time either as a catcher or as a position player.

 

I'm not in love with Leon and never have been, even when he was hitting. I always felt that he was going to "regress to his mean" offensively - which he did. Defensively, I'm not completely sold on CERA but I do think there's something to it which helps me understand why the FO chose Leon over Swi as the #2 catcher - as long as I can understand why they did it without agreeing with it.

 

IMO Swihart's greatest value to a team is as a catcher. That's why in some obtuse way I'm pleased he got traded. Maybe he'll catch on in AZ or someplace as a catcher, which wouldn't surprise me. OTOH maybe he won't and I'll be proven wrong. That's happened before!

[Bellhorn04]

Why not?

 

Catchers can’t play everyday. If there was any position that should have two co-starters, it’s catcher. Yet it’s done at other positions all the time, typically based on opposing starting pitcher. But a smart catcher platoon could be based on your own starting pitcher...

 

In theory it could work. But if both catchers are really good, they'll expect to be paid like they're really good and they'll want 'starter money'.

 

It'd be a catcher controversy waiting to happen.

 

Good in theory, problematic in practice.

[moonslav59]

In theory it could work. But if both catchers are really good, they'll expect to be paid like they're really good and they'll want 'starter money'.

 

It'd be a catcher controversy waiting to happen.

 

Good in theory, problematic in practice.

 

Catcher injuries limit a lot of catchers from starting a ton of games, but last year no catcher started more than 123 games as a catcher. That basically means another catcher caught 25% of that team's games (or 39 games). If you split the starts up 60-40 (1 catcher catches 3 specific starters and the other 2 specific starters), the GS totals would be something like 97 to 65.

 

Last year, only 11 catchers started more than 98 games at catcher. Only 8 started over 105 games.

 

Most teams, due to injuries or whatever, already use something close to a 60-40 or 50-50 split anyways.

 

(On an unrelated note, fangraphs ranked the Sox second in catcher defense last year behind AZ. We were also 4th in DRS and 2nd in pitch framing.)

Edited April 26, 2019 by moonslav59

[Thunder]

In theory it could work. But if both catchers are really good, they'll expect to be paid like they're really good and they'll want 'starter money'.

 

It'd be a catcher controversy waiting to happen.

 

Good in theory, problematic in practice.

 

Thankfully, we don't have that problem. If we could have Leon's defense and game calling, paired with Vazquez's offense, we'd have a potential perennial all star. I know Vaz is very streaky at the plate, but our two catchers really compliment each other well. And boy, I have always been in love with Sandy. Definitely one of my favorite Red Sox players.

[vegasbob]

Agreed. Sox management loved him and just saw something in him that didn't translate to baseball.

 

Why don't people focus on the real problem---Any ownership or FO who risks players like TSW, Yaz, Rice, Manny, Beni or Swihart in a left field featuring a rollup garage door , 3 feet off the foul line deserves to get slammed for organizational incompetency . There are better and safer opening closures than what Fenway has. Oh wait, is Swi the only one of that list of HoF All-Stars that ran into the door?

[Slasher9]

IMO Swihart's greatest value to a team is as a catcher. That's why in some obtuse way I'm pleased he got traded. Maybe he'll catch on in AZ or someplace as a catcher, which wouldn't surprise me.

 

so far in AZ he has played OF 3 times and Catcher 0 times. i dont think he is viewed as a catcher anymore.

[mvp 78]

so far in AZ he has played OF 3 times and Catcher 0 times. i dont think he is viewed as a catcher anymore.

 

This just isn't true and you know it. He's still definitely viewed as a catcher

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

just a really s***** one.

[jad]

Why don't people focus on the real problem---Any ownership or FO who risks players like TSW, Yaz, Rice, Manny, Beni or Swihart in a left field featuring a rollup garage door , 3 feet off the foul line deserves to get slammed for organizational incompetency . There are better and safer opening closures than what Fenway has. Oh wait, is Swi the only one of that list of HoF All-Stars that ran into the door?

 

I must have seen TSW play left quite a bit when I was a kid. I don't recall him as being terrible out there (and besides, there was always Gene Stephens), but I also don't recall him EVER running into the wall or even putting himself at risk of doing that. (Please find me the film showing I'm wrong: at age 10 or so, I never imagined I would be asked to recall anything.)

[Kimmi]

People blame the ankle sprain on the Sox "messing him up" by making him play another position.

 

The injury was unfortunate, but I view the chance they gave him to win a slot on the team as a non-catcher as a favor to him- not an impediment or obstruction- let alone "messing" him up.

 

My opinion that the Sox handled Swihart poorly has nothing to do with him breaking his ankle.

 

Those things happen and are not the fault of management.

[Kimmi]

What did people envision back when Vazquez and Swihart came up together? One of them had to go at some point, right? The best case scenario was that one of them got traded for something good.

 

This is what I envisioned. One would be our starting catcher and the other would be traded for something good and become the starting catcher for another team.

[Kimmi]

Also, it's funny that the people besides me who don't blame management for Swihart's injury, because those things happen, still blame Farrell for ruining Steven Wright.

[Bellhorn04]

Also, it's funny that the people besides me who don't blame management for Swihart's injury, because those things happen, still blame Farrell for ruining Steven Wright.

 

It's true that in both cases bad luck was involved, but the scenarios were pretty different. Wright had never been on the basepaths in his career when Farrell inserted him there. And he's not the most athletic-looking ballplayer. He was a fish out of water.

[notin]

Also, it's funny that the people besides me who don't blame management for Swihart's injury, because those things happen, still blame Farrell for ruining Steven Wright.

 

 

Maybe you could argue he ruined Steven Wright’s season. But career?

 

At the time, Wright was 32 years old and still had made three times as many starts in the minors as in the majors, with plenty of inconsistency there as well. His career was always going to be in question...

[Bellhorn04]

Maybe you could argue he ruined Steven Wright’s season. But career?

 

At the time, Wright was 32 years old and still had made three times as many starts in the minors as in the majors, with plenty of inconsistency there as well. His career was always going to be in question...

 

Is 'finished his career' more accurate then?