A Realistic View at 2019: Part I

[BillyWilliams]

Cubs Suck

 

And I care why?

[BillyWilliams]

Yankees fans post on Sox boards to hang out with cool, fun people.

 

There aren't any on the Yankees forums.

 

Nah, I find the clowns in here much more amusing......

[moonslav59]

Unfortunately, I have to side with you on this one Babe.

 

What the Sox are doing is no different than what the Yankees were doing.

 

The Sox and Sox fans have become what we always hated about the Yankees and the Yankees fans.

 

No, I'm not going to give back any of the championships that we win with a enormous payroll, but I am very much against building a team that way.

 

Well, we did win 3 rings without being close to the Yanks in spending in 2004, 2007 & 2013.

 

Also, if you look at the differentials between the top spending team and the second place or league average, the Yankee differentials blew the Sox $27M differential out of the water just about every year.

 

2018 Opening Day

 

$236M BOS

$209M SFG

The SF $27M differential is 11% of the Sox payroll.

 

2017:

LAD 17% over NYY

 

2016:

LAD 5% over NYY and 18% over BOS

 

2015:

LAD 19% over NYY and 31% over BOS

 

2014

LAD 14% over NYY and 31% over BOS

 

(Just NY & BOS listed)

2013

NYY 34% over BOS

 

2012

NYY 12% over BOS

 

2011

NYY 20% over BOS

 

2010

NYY 21% over BOS

 

2009

NYY 39% over BOS

 

2008

NYY 36% over BOS

 

2007

NYY 24% over BOS

 

2006

NYY 38% over BOS

 

2005

NYY 41% over BOS

 

2004

NYY 31% over BOS

 

2003

NYY 35% over BOS

 

 

Our 11% is substantial, and outspending everyone is just what it is. I can see how someone can say, "we bought a championship," but 11 % is nothing like 20-41% the Yanks outspent us by for 9 straight years and 10 out of 11.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SCM33]

Nah, I find the clowns in here much more amusing......

 

Wasnt sure which Billy Williams your UN was after....player or coach. Now I know.

 

Yankees havent been relevant to Sox fans in 10 years. If you take out 2009, its been 15 years. Go away.

[Bellhorn04]

Nah, I find the clowns in here much more amusing......

 

I'm guessing you've been booted from some Yankee forums too.

[SCM33]

Well, we did win 3 rings without being close to the Yanks in spending in 2004, 2007 & 2013.

 

Also, if you look at the differentials between the top spending team and the second place or league average, the Yankee differentials blew the Sox $27M differential out of the water just about every year.

 

2018 Opening Day

 

$236M BOS

$209M SFG

The SF $27M differential is 11% of the Sox payroll.

 

2017:

LAD 17% over NYY

 

2016:

LAD 5% over NYY and 18% over BOS

 

2015:

LAD 19% over NYY and 31% over BOS

 

2014

LAD 14% over NYY and 31% over BOS

 

(Just NY & BOS listed)

2013

NYY 34% over BOS

 

2012

NYY 12% over BOS

 

2011

NYY 20% over BOS

 

2010

NYY 21% over BOS

 

2009

NYY 39% over BOS

 

2008

NYY 36% over BOS

 

2007

NYY 24% over BOS

 

2006

NYY 38% over BOS

 

2005

NYY 41% over BOS

 

2004

NYY 31% over BOS

 

2003

NYY 35% over BOS

 

 

Our 11% is substantial, and outspending everyone is just what it is. I can see how someone can say, "we bought a championship," but 11 % is nothing like 20-41% the Yanks outspent us by for 9 straight years and 10 out of 11.

 

Moonslav, as a Sox fan.....regardless of any number you could provide.....its a terrible comparison. Sox spend WAYYYYYY more than anyone right now, and its not like the Sox haven't had the money to go toe for toe with the Yankees.

 

A real complaint is how the Yankees cheated the draft and free agency system in the 20's and 30's, when they won the MAJORITY of their WS titles. Doesnt matter now, its 100 years later. Barely anyone alive remembers them, and the Yankees havent had "real" fans in forever since the entire city is full of transplants. The funny part is when Yankees beat their chests about their 27 championships, but most alive have only seen 5 or so.......you know, when the game actually had rules and regulations about the draft/free agency etc.

[moonslav59]

But again, you don't have to be the top spender to be viewed that way.

 

As I said, teams that spend a heck of a lot less view the sawx as "buying" championships no matter if you want to admit that or not.

 

And the sawx will have the highest payroll 2 years running, that's what I meant as several.

 

I guess I always thought of several as more than 2 and so does Webster.

 

Being top 10 does make a difference, but for many of those years, we were much closer to the average or mean team payroll than to the Yankees at the top.

 

The site I am looking at goes back to 1998, when the Sox were 7th at $59M (BAL was ta $72M and #15 was at $47M. The Sox were slightly closer to #15 than #1--hardly a team trying to "buy a championship", but I guess we may just be arguing semantics.

 

In 1999, the Sox were $17M from #1 and $25M from #15.

 

In 2000, the Sox were $15M from #1 and $19M from #15.

 

Those times were different, and I'm not even bringing up the days of Steinbrenner's massive spending days, when compared to the rest of MLB way back when.

 

 

 

[moonslav59]

Moonslav, as a Sox fan.....regardless of any number you could provide.....its a terrible comparison. Sox spend WAYYYYYY more than anyone right now, and its not like the Sox haven't had the money to go toe for toe with the Yankees.

 

A real complaint is how the Yankees cheated the draft and free agency system in the 20's and 30's, when they won the MAJORITY of their WS titles. Doesnt matter now, its 100 years later. Barely anyone alive remembers them, and the Yankees havent had "real" fans in forever since the entire city is full of transplants. The funny part is when Yankees beat their chests about their 27 championships, but most alive have only seen 5 or so.......you know, when the game actually had rules and regulations about the draft/free agency etc.

 

I have no issues with anyone saying we bought a championship. Even the 2004, 2007 and 2013 rings involved some heavy spending, but when those years involved spending way way less than the Yanks, I don't see it as being equal. Maybe you do. Maybe most fans don't see a difference or don't see a big enough difference to matter all that much. I'm fine with that.

 

I just don't want us to be thought of in the same way as the Yanks were, when they, al,one, were outspending everyone had and foot, year after year after year. I see a difference, but if we keep outspending everyone year after year, I will feel like a hypocrite for not calling it what it is.

 

It was one way us Sox fans could take solace, when we lost year after year. I guess others can forget or change their views quicker than I can.

 

I'm not disagreeing with you and Billy, but I am pointing out the degree of difference between us now (for 2 years) and you guys for decades.

[Bellhorn04]

I have no issues with anyone saying we bought a championship. Even the 2004, 2007 and 2013 rings involved some heavy spending, but when those years involved spending way way less than the Yanks, I don't see it as being equal. Maybe you do. Maybe most fans don't see a difference or don't see a big enough difference to matter all that much. I'm fine with that.

 

I just don't want us to be thought of in the same way as the Yanks were, when they, al,one, were outspending everyone had and foot, year after year after year. I see a difference, but if we keep outspending everyone year after year, I will feel like a hypocrite for not calling it what it is.

 

I think it's a slightly different situation.

 

The Yankees could outspend us if they wanted to because they have significantly higher revenues. They have made the decision not to, last year and this year.

 

We couldn't outspend the Yankees back when George was running the team. They had much higher revenues and they had George.

[SCM33]

I think it's a slightly different situation.

 

The Yankees could outspend us if they wanted to because they have significantly higher revenues. They have made the decision not to, last year and this year.

 

We couldn't outspend the Yankees back when George was running the team. They had much higher revenues and they had George.

 

This is correct too. George cared about winning at all costs, especially after their mid 90's run.

 

The sons seem to care about the bottom line more. The only reason we spend more than they do, is because they are choosing not to. Dont get it confused though, money doesnt only buy championships. Money also buys bad contracts.

 

At the end of the day, John Henry has his limits as well. Im sure hes not happy writing an 18M dollar check to Pablo this year, or the 2M to Manny every year for like 10 more years.

[notin]

Another fun fact:

 

The Red Sox, Yankees, and Astros are currently a combined 3-8 with a -11 run differential.

 

Go baseball!

 

 

Throw in the AL Central Default Champions and those teams are 4-10 with a -18 run differential...

[Thunder]

Wasnt sure which Billy Williams your UN was after....player or coach. Now I know.

 

Yankees havent been relevant to Sox fans in 10 years. If you take out 2009, its been 15 years. Go away.

 

That's exactly why I don't hate the Yankees as much as all of you. In my lifetime, they haven't gotten in our way.

[dannycater]

For moon, maybe there is something about CERA...

For instance, no Leon.

[moonslav59]

For moon, maybe there is something about CERA...

For instance, no Leon.

 

The sample size is way too small to draw that conclusion, but there is ample evidence that certain catchers repeatedly get more out of as staff than others.

 

It's not a fluke. It goes beyond CS%, blocked pitches in the dirt and pitch framing.

[notin]

But again, you don't have to be the top spender to be viewed that way.

 

As I said, teams that spend a heck of a lot less view the sawx as "buying" championships no matter if you want to admit that or not.

 

And the sawx will have the highest payroll 2 years running, that's what I meant as several.

 

The definition of the word “several” is “more than two but not many.”

 

New York schools, I guess....

[moonslav59]

The definition of the word “several” is “more than two but not many.”

 

New York schools, I guess....

 

They never heard of Webstah.

[oldtimer]

Looks like Devers error rate could be high again. May increase the pressure to move him to 1st for 2020

[MADSTORK]

hahahaha. your back. we missed you during the parade and all the 2018 World Series Champion celebrations. did you at least purchase a 2018 champs Tshirt or hat?

 

 

Dombrowski and Cora were correct. At 1 4, "you don't need a closer"!

 

If the Media Moguls are correct? Call Leon up ASAP and Trade Johnny "Swihart" Bench for BullPen help or outright the player to AAA

[Bellhorn04]

Dombrowski and Cora were correct. At 1 4, "you don't need a closer"!

 

If the Media Moguls are correct? Call Leon up ASAP and Trade Johnny "Swihart" Bench for BullPen help or outright the player to AAA

 

Yes, it's never early to panic, DORK.

[Slasher9]

Dombrowski and Cora were correct. At 1 4, "you don't need a closer"!

 

If the Media Moguls are correct? Call Leon up ASAP and Trade Johnny "Swihart" Bench for BullPen help or outright the player to AAA

 

you didn't answer my question.

[jacksonianmarch]

How you start doesn’t tell you how you’ll finish. Heck, the team that won the most games in history (1998 Yanks), started out 1-4

[Maxbialystock]

Dombrowski and Cora were correct. At 1 4, "you don't need a closer"!

 

If the Media Moguls are correct? Call Leon up ASAP and Trade Johnny "Swihart" Bench for BullPen help or outright the player to AAA

 

Least of our worries right now is a closer, which Barnes has handled perfectly for his one save opportunity. Bullpen help, maybe, but the bullpen so far is way, way, way, way better than the rotation. If Swihart had started in more than 1 game, then maybe blame him for the utter ineptitude of the rotation, but most of us think it was the short ST that created this rotation problem. The neat thing about Leon is he is available if needed.

[BillyWilliams]

The definition of the word “several” is “more than two but not many.”

 

New York schools, I guess....

 

Whoopty damn doo.

 

Still doesn't change the point of my post if you change "several" to "few"

[notin]

Whoopty damn doo.

 

Still doesn't change the point of my post if you change "several" to "few"

 

Or “two”, if you like being correct...

[moonslav59]

Least of our worries right now is a closer, which Barnes has handled perfectly for his one save opportunity. Bullpen help, maybe, but the bullpen so far is way, way, way, way better than the rotation. If Swihart had started in more than 1 game, then maybe blame him for the utter ineptitude of the rotation, but most of us think it was the short ST that created this rotation problem. The neat thing about Leon is he is available if needed.

 

Well, Leon had much better numbers than Vaz with Sale and Price, so it could be that, but again, the sample size is way too small to blame any of this on Leon being demoted.

 

It wasn't just a Leon vs Swihart choice. It also forced a Vaz vs Leon choice in catchers.

[moonslav59]

Or “two”, if you like being correct...

 

Actually, one going on two. Maybe the Yanks or Dodgers sign Keuchel or Kimbrel and/or trade for a big salary that bounces them ahead of the Sox in 2019.

[moonslav59]

Whoopty damn doo.

 

Still doesn't change the point of my post if you change "several" to "few"

 

You worded it to make it sound like it was more than it was.

 

It was no biggie, but it deserved being corrected.

[dgalehouse]

Problem: The Sox off season sucked . ( No problem, we have a great team ). Problem: The Sox spring training sucked . ( No problem , it is meaningless. They will turn it on come opening day ) . Problem: The first week of the regular season sucked . ( No problem , it is early and spring training sucked ) . Remedy : Simple . Stop sucking .

[Slasher9]

Problem: The Sox off season sucked . ( No problem, we have a great team ). Problem: The Sox spring training sucked . ( No problem , it is meaningless. They will turn it on come opening day ) . Problem: The first week of the regular season sucked . ( No problem , it is early and spring training sucked ) . Remedy : Simple . Stop sucking .

 

would having Kimbrel on the team have solved the first week woes?

i think that is what you were advocating?

what other off season moves did you want to make?

[Bellhorn04]

Problem: The Sox off season sucked . ( No problem, we have a great team ).

 

Come on Denny. They signed Eovaldi and extended Sale and Bogaerts. Defending world champs and Henry is investing in the team HUGELY.

 

Have some perspective.