Dave Dombrowski

[oldtimer]

If Nunez, Kelly and Vaz are is worth about $4m a year, then Betts is worth at least 10 times that ($40M+).

 

Just because you reply in BOLD script doesn't mean it makes sense. Putting 1/5 of your available luxury tax salary money into one of your 25 players doesn't make a lot of sense.

[jacksonianmarch]

There are very few teams that will be competing to sign Betts. Very few. Boston has an excellent chance of keeping him.

 

You’re absolutely delusional if you think his market will be limited. Here are the teams with the funds to sign him. I’ll put ? After teams that make big commitments but do them rarely

 

Mets

Phillies

Braves?

Nationals

Cardinals

Cubs

Brewers?

Dodgers

Diamondbacks

Giants

Yankees

Red Sox

Orioles

Blue Jays?

White Sox

Guardians

Tigers

Houston

Seattle

LAA

Texas?

 

Expecting to get Mookie cheap because the market is thin is a fools errand. Mookie is the reincarnation of Willie Mays. He’s a generational talent who’s on pace for the HOF. His first season of his next contract will be played at the young age of 28. Barring injury or underperformance the next two seasons, Mookie is gonna get paid. Generational talents can turn a whole franchise around. Look at Trout in Anaheim. Before Showtime Ohtani came to LAA it was Trout and the rotting corpse of Pujols, yet Trout always made things exciting. Betts will have that effect.

[jacksonianmarch]

DD should be called King Midas. Your team is far more talented than the 2013 club was, but his moves this year are just turning into gold at the right time like thing did that season. Let’s get Pearce from the Jays and he’s gonna turn into another JD Martinez at the right time and crush the Yanks. Let’s insert Brian Johnson into the rotation and watch a guy topping out at 88 get just lucky enough every time out to let your offense win the games. It seems every journeyman or over the hill player he acquires has become incredibly clutch. I don’t get it. Either way, anyone who hates on DD right now is an idiot. He’ll re-sign Kimbrel this offseason and refill other spots with guys on the roster already and keep pretty much the same team for one more year. He’s built a juggernaut for two seasons coming off back to back AL East titles.

[Emp9]

DD should be called King Midas. Your team is far more talented than the 2013 club was, but his moves this year are just turning into gold at the right time like thing did that season. Let’s get Pearce from the Jays and he’s gonna turn into another JD Martinez at the right time and crush the Yanks. Let’s insert Brian Johnson into the rotation and watch a guy topping out at 88 get just lucky enough every time out to let your offense win the games. It seems every journeyman or over the hill player he acquires has become incredibly clutch. I don’t get it. Either way, anyone who hates on DD right now is an idiot. He’ll re-sign Kimbrel this offseason and refill other spots with guys on the roster already and keep pretty much the same team for one more year. He’s built a juggernaut for two seasons coming off back to back AL East titles.

 

But who hates DD though?

[jacksonianmarch]

Scour the forum and you’ll find haters, lots of em

[Bellhorn04]

DD should be called King Midas.

 

And maybe Cash should be called King Nero - basically fiddling while Rome burns at the deadline this year?

[Emp9]

Scour the forum and you’ll find haters, lots of em

 

If there were lots of them, why the need to scour then?

[notin]

They will need some of that ... but really, the Red Sox don't actually need the farm to produce worker bees ... there are lots of ways to find Mitch Morelands. The Red Sox want the farm to produce STARS ... and you can see that in how Dombrowski has handled the farm. He has aggressively managed the stars and used the other guys to figure out other parts. Teams like Tampa and Oakland is more likely to use the "non-star" tier of players as well.

 

Dombrowski does not have a 2020 problem. John Henry does. The choice of signing guys who are already good ENTERING their prime is not a difficult one. It's just a matter if ownership wants to take said plunge.

 

Bradley and Bogaerts are fairly complicated - Betts and Benintendi are not.

 

Wrong wrong wrong.

 

The Sox do need the farm to produce worker bees to allow the stars to be affordable.

 

Yes you can get Mitch Moreland plenty of way. But none of them get you a minimum wage Mitch Moreland if that is all that the budget allows. Large market or not, there is a limit to John Henry's spending...

[notin]

There are very few teams that will be competing to sign Betts. Very few. Boston has an excellent chance of keeping him.

 

Based on what? Because that is how you want it to play out?

 

The only limiting factor will be the size of the contract, which might take out a few teams. But all it takes is one team with a larger wallet and his agent will tell him to go elsewhere...

[Bellhorn04]

Wrong wrong wrong.

 

The Sox do need the farm to produce worker bees to allow the stars to be affordable.

 

I think he might be right.

 

If you go back to 2003 when Theo took over, this has pretty much been the case.

 

What valuable 'worker bees' has the farm system produced since then, that we have kept?

Edited August 4, 2018 by Bellhorn04

[Emp9]

Scour the forum and you’ll find haters, lots of em

 

I don’t mean to single you out as an attack or anything. I just think that narrative is way overblown. We criticize anything & everything here six ways to sunday. Criticizing 1 or 2 moves out a dozen isn’t what I would necessarily call hating.

[notin]

I think he might be right.

 

If you go back to 2003 when Theo took over, this has pretty much been the case.

 

What valuable 'worker bees' has the farm system produced since then, that we have kept?

 

I suppose we will find differing definitions of "worker bees", but players like Trot Nixon and Kevin Youkilis certainly made affording Manny and Ortiz easier as well as adding the occasional ancillary piece, like Foulke...

[Nick]

Despite all the setbacks and injuries, this team has been unbelievable and fun to watch.

 

It has not been all smooth sailing either.

 

Frustrations with Pom, Wright, E Rod getting hurt on a play at first, Pedey out for the year, ups and downs in bullpen, Vaz out, Devers in and out, Xander trying to stay 100% healthy, etc.

 

But the team is resilient. They pretty much beat up on teams that they should.

 

Comforting to know that we come out of this 4-game series with no worse than where we started. We have a chance to stretch the lead if we can win one of remaining games.

 

I'm not sure if Yankee fans counted on some of THEIR guys getting hurt, either. It's a good team but they need their starters as much as we do ours.

 

With Sale, Kimbrel, Betts and JD anchoring the team, I just don't see us going on prolong losing streaks.

[S5Dewey]

Despite all the setbacks and injuries, this team has been unbelievable and fun to watch.

 

It has not been all smooth sailing either.

 

Frustrations with Pom, Wright, E Rod getting hurt on a play at first, Pedey out for the year, ups and downs in bullpen, Vaz out, Devers in and out, Xander trying to stay 100% healthy, etc.

 

But the team is resilient. They pretty much beat up on teams that they should.

 

Comforting to know that we come out of this 4-game series with no worse than where we started. We have a chance to stretch the lead if we can win one of remaining games.

 

I'm not sure if Yankee fans counted on some of THEIR guys getting hurt, either. It's a good team but they need their starters as much as we do ours.

 

With Sale, Kimbrel, Betts and JD anchoring the team, I just don't see us going on prolong losing streaks.

I've learned to never count those chickens. s*** has a way of happening even to the best teams. The really good news is that we could currently be swept in back-to-back 3-game series and STILL be in first place! (Not that I expect that to happen).

[Kimmi]

This is still a team game played with 25 man active rosters. While one of the 25 can do great things, it is hard to justify earnings differences of 10 to 1 between starters. Teams can come along and bid up the salaries but eventually it can imbalance their own team and work against them. I believe the front office should consider pay scales for the importance of players to the team and then stick to those.

 

I just can't fathom that kind of money and # of years for any player. There was a time when there were a select handful of players (ARod in his prime is one of them, and Mookie would certainly be another) that I would have broken the bank for, but I have since changed my opinion on even that select few.

[Hitch]

Scour the forum and you’ll find haters, lots of em

 

Name them.

[dgalehouse]

You’re absolutely delusional if you think his market will be limited. Here are the teams with the funds to sign him. I’ll put ? After teams that make big commitments but do them rarely

 

Mets

Phillies

Braves?

Nationals

Cardinals

Cubs

Brewers?

Dodgers

Diamondbacks

Giants

Yankees

Red Sox

Orioles

Blue Jays?

White Sox

Guardians

Tigers

Houston

Seattle

LAA

Texas?

 

Expecting to get Mookie cheap because the market is thin is a fools errand. Mookie is the reincarnation of Willie Mays. He’s a generational talent who’s on pace for the HOF. His first season of his next contract will be played at the young age of 28. Barring injury or underperformance the next two seasons, Mookie is gonna get paid. Generational talents can turn a whole franchise around. Look at Trout in Anaheim. Before Showtime Ohtani came to LAA it was Trout and the rotting corpse of Pujols, yet Trout always made things exciting. Betts will have that effect.

Of course Betts is every bit as good as you say. And if you seriously think some of those teams are possible destinations for him then you are the delusional one. There are only a handful of big market teams that are in play for players of that rare caliber.

[Kimmi]

DD should be called King Midas. Your team is far more talented than the 2013 club was, but his moves this year are just turning into gold at the right time like thing did that season. Let’s get Pearce from the Jays and he’s gonna turn into another JD Martinez at the right time and crush the Yanks. Let’s insert Brian Johnson into the rotation and watch a guy topping out at 88 get just lucky enough every time out to let your offense win the games. It seems every journeyman or over the hill player he acquires has become incredibly clutch. I don’t get it. Either way, anyone who hates on DD right now is an idiot. He’ll re-sign Kimbrel this offseason and refill other spots with guys on the roster already and keep pretty much the same team for one more year. He’s built a juggernaut for two seasons coming off back to back AL East titles.

 

It's funny, because I used to always say the same thing about Cashman's pick ups. It seemed like every player that he added miraculously had a career revival after joining the Yankees. Not so much recently.

[dgalehouse]

Based on what? Because that is how you want it to play out?

 

The only limiting factor will be the size of the contract, which might take out a few teams. But all it takes is one team with a larger wallet and his agent will tell him to go elsewhere...

 

You are either just a contrarian or a committed small time thinker. There is only a handful of big market , big money teams in play for a guy like Betts. That should be obvious from past experience. That should not be hard to understand. I think he will remain in Boston.

[Kimmi]

Scour the forum and you’ll find haters, lots of em

 

There are not lots of Dombrowski haters.

 

I hate what he has done to our farm system. That's no secret. You, yourself, agree with my opinion of that. I don't think anyone has remotely criticized him for the overall work of putting our current team together. Maybe a move here or a move there, but we are all thrilled with our current team.

[Kimmi]

Despite all the setbacks and injuries, this team has been unbelievable and fun to watch.

 

It has not been all smooth sailing either.

 

Frustrations with Pom, Wright, E Rod getting hurt on a play at first, Pedey out for the year, ups and downs in bullpen, Vaz out, Devers in and out, Xander trying to stay 100% healthy, etc.

 

But the team is resilient. They pretty much beat up on teams that they should.

 

Comforting to know that we come out of this 4-game series with no worse than where we started. We have a chance to stretch the lead if we can win one of remaining games.

 

I'm not sure if Yankee fans counted on some of THEIR guys getting hurt, either. It's a good team but they need their starters as much as we do ours.

 

With Sale, Kimbrel, Betts and JD anchoring the team, I just don't see us going on prolong losing streaks.

 

I fully endorse this post.

[a700hitter]

Scour the forum and you’ll find haters, lots of em

Paging “Desperate Dave”. Page those who’ve posted numerous times about how he has “ravaged” or “blown up” or other colorful descriptions about the farm system. Terms like those reveal more than mere criticism. Yes there are DD haters. Plenty of them.

[Kimmi]

I've learned to never count those chickens. s*** has a way of happening even to the best teams. The really good news is that we could currently be swept in back-to-back 3-game series and STILL be in first place! (Not that I expect that to happen).

 

I don't ever count a team out (or in) until the math says that they are out.

 

That said, I think that we really just need to play .500 ball against the Yankees. If we do that in our remaining games, it will make it very difficult for them to catch us.

 

That said, let us not forget the collapse of 2011.

 

One game at a time. Let's not get ahead of ourselves.

[Kimmi]

On the topic of signing Betts to a 10 year deal, yes, he will only be 28 when said deal would begin. That is the age when players typically peak, with decline typically beginning in the early 30s and occurring rapidly after that.

 

Mookie may be able to defy 'typical'. Then again, he might not.

 

Look at Pujols. He put up MVP numbers until roughly the age of 30, then declined gradually for 2 years, and significantly after that.

 

It's too big of a risk.

 

Imagine having to deal with that contract for 5 years if Mookie follows a pattern similar to Pujols. Are 5 MVP years worth possibly also dealing with 5 years of replacement level?

Edited August 4, 2018 by Kimmi

[Bellhorn04]

It's true that 10 year deals have generally proven to be disasters. I wonder if we will see any more of them. Supposedly math geeks have taken over MLB FO's, so we shall see.

[Kimmi]

It's true that 10 year deals have generally proven to be disasters. I wonder if we will see any more of them. Supposedly math geeks have taken over MLB FO's, so we shall see.

 

I am very interested to see what Machado and Harper get this year, and what Mookie will eventually sign for.

 

#longlivemathgeeks

[S5Dewey]

On the topic of signing Betts to a 10 year deal, yes, he will only be 28 when said deal would begin. That is the age when players typically peak, with decline typically beginning in the early 30s and occurring rapidly after that.

 

Mookie may be able to defy 'typical'. Then again, he might not.

 

Look at Pujols. He put up MVP numbers until roughly the age of 30, then declined gradually for 2 years, and significantly after that.

 

It's too big of a risk.

 

Imagine having to deal with that contract for 5 years if Mookie follows a pattern similar to Pujols. Are 5 MVP years worth possibly also dealing with 5 years of replacement level?

 

The biggest gamble I see in signing Mookie to a long term contract at "whatever it costs" is that we don't know what salaries are going to be when Mookie turns 28. With the current escalation of salaries what he might sign for today could be a pittance of what he could sign for in three years. Or, if this escalation ends it could be an overpay.

 

IMO he has the skills - the "tools", if you will - to be productive in 10 years barring injuries. If the decision were mine I'd take the chance. As I've said before, I'd hand him a blank signed contract and tell him to fill in the blanks. (Not quite literally do that, but I think you can see what I mean).

[S5Dewey]

I am very interested to see what Machado and Harper get this year, and what Mookie will eventually sign for.

 

#longlivemathgeeks

 

IIMO you're right about that. Given that most owners have been unwilling to pay big $$ for long years to FA's, 2018/2019 could be a barometer for the future.

The question then is, How much is the best player in baseball" worth? - with apologies to Mike Trout.

[Bellhorn04]

8 years, 280 million, AAV of 35 million would seem to be in the ballpark.

[Slasher9]

Some of us correctly stated that DD would decimate the Farm when hired. There is no arguing that this isn’t the case. If it results in a parade it will be worth it.

I love our team right now.

3-4 years from now? TBD.