Rafael Devers struggles/triumphs and the future

[mvp 78]

I agree completely. Devers is a work in progress but he's delivering more than anyone else on the team can deliver at 3B and it would be difficult to work out a trade for anyone better.

 

IMO his defense is better now than it was in April and while his offense may still be struggling (if you call .755 struggling) it's not realistic to expect all of his game to fall in together in a 3 month period.

 

.289 BABIP. I think he has had a fair share of bad luck. He's swinging at more pitches in the zone this year. He's making hard contact. I'd love to see him k less, but everyone is Rob Deer now.

[FredLynn]

I agree completely. Devers is a work in progress but he's delivering more than anyone else on the team can deliver at 3B and it would be difficult to work out a trade for anyone better.

 

IMO his defense is better now than it was in April and while his offense may still be struggling (if you call .755 struggling) it's not realistic to expect all of his game to fall in together in a 3 month period.

 

His current OPS is .698, not .755. His OPS+ is 85-below average. And while his defense is slightly better, he still has a slightly negative WAR for the year. Its hard for me to understand why this is viewed by some here as an acceptable level of performance. Yes, the team is doing well, obviously. And yes, Devers is, right now, our best option at 3B. But there are other members of this team that are responsible for our stellar W-L record and they are covering for the deficiencies in the performance Devers is producing. Until he learns the strike zone I don't see him making huge leaps offensively. Just because he is 21 and plays for the Red Sox does not mean he has *potential*. For my part I will just wait and see on that...lots of guys have *potential* and end up failing.

Edited June 15, 2018 by FredLynn

[mvp 78]

847 OPS the past 10 days. Send him down tho!

[mvp 78]

1/3 of all starting 3b's are worse defensively than Devers. Let's complain about it endlessly since every starter needs to be an All Star in 2018. We can't wait a year or two for him to get HOF numbers.

[Slasher9]

1/3 of all starting 3b's are worse defensively than Devers. Let's complain about it endlessly since every starter needs to be an All Star in 2018. We can't wait a year or two for him to get HOF numbers.

 

just remember who started this thread......

[mvp 78]

just remember who started this thread......

 

There are enough other people contributing to it tho.

[FredLynn]

1/3 of all starting 3b's are worse defensively than Devers. Let's complain about it endlessly since every starter needs to be an All Star in 2018. We can't wait a year or two for him to get HOF numbers.

 

You are missing the point. I think that players who are not performing are fair game for discussion here. I don't think you can complain that Betts or JD can improve enough to help the team get even better, but guys like Devers, Pomeranz, Nunez etc, they are fair game to write about here.

[notin]

Calling up Beni was a panic move.

 

Betts rapid ascension in 2014 was a panic move.

 

You know what would also be a panic move? Sending Devers down right now.

 

What's the panic regarding calling up players you already have? That's just trying all your options before you do something drastic. I have no problem wIth any of the call ups you mentioned.

 

To me, signing Rusney Castillo was more of a panic move than any of those call ups...

[mvp 78]

You are missing the point. I think that players who are not performing are fair game for discussion here. I don't think you can complain that Betts or JD can improve enough to help the team get even better, but guys like Devers, Pomeranz, Nunez etc, they are fair game to write about here.

 

You can write about whoever, I just think you need to be reasonable in your expectations. Not everyone is going to be an All Star.

 

Pom is on the DL and may not see the rotation in a Sox uni again.

 

Nunez is clearly injured.

 

Devers is a 20 year old 3b who'd be the oldest POSITION player in Salem. No POSITION player in Salem is under 22 right now.

[Slasher9]

DD didnt have a proper backup plan for the disaster at 3rd that was Pablo. calling a 20 year old Devers up could def be described as a "panic move". but once it was done...it was done. this year 99.9% of us went on record stating that we have to live with the growing pains of a 21 year old 3bman learning at the major league level. errors and cold stretches at the plate are part of these growing pains. we need to deal with it. it's not easy during a possible pennant year tho.

[OH FOY]

So if your willing to demote him, then you must be all in to Trade him. Machado and Britton for Devers. You doing it? I would. O's in a couple of Months, might get more for these 2. If you could do it now, I would pull the trigger.

This from a love for Devers, by me. It would hurt, but I would do it. Screw the Luxury Tax.

Yanks would worry about the Sox Line-up with Machado, it would be potent.

Britton comes back like he was a couple of years ago, is dominate. Lefty next to Kimbrel, WoW!

I'll even throw in Trey Ball.

Edited June 15, 2018 by OH FOY!

[OH FOY]

I bring this up, because Rosenthal brought this Trade up, he's usually pretty good. But I will add, I would not do this on July 31, too late want them now.

[vjcsmoke]

Yes Devers has had a sophomore slump. But it's way too early to give up on him. I feel that he will eventually rebound to rookie year form. And that gives you an .800+ OPS hitter at 3rd base.

 

That being said, if Manny Machado is on the table, yes I'd give up Devers and his long term control in exchange for a 3rd baseman/SS who is everything you hope that Devers would become but is already there.

 

Not to mention that Machado is only 25 years old so there are plenty of good years to be had from him.

 

My only concern is that Machado is a free agent at the end of the year. So I would not give up Devers plus X prospects for Machado unless he is willing to sign an extension.

 

If we get to keep Machado the trade is worth it, if it's just 1 year of Machado on the roster, than it's not.

 

So if your willing to demote him, then you must be all in to Trade him. Machado and Britton for Devers. You doing it? I would. O's in a couple of Months, might get more for these 2. If you could do it now, I would pull the trigger.

This from a love for Devers, by me. It would hurt, but I would do it. Screw the Luxury Tax.

Yanks would worry about the Sox Line-up with Machado, it would be potent.

Britton comes back like he was a couple of years ago, is dominate. Lefty next to Kimbrel, WoW!

I'll even throw in Trey Ball.

[kenmeister]

Yes Devers has had a sophomore slump. But it's way too early to give up on him. I feel that he will eventually rebound to rookie year form. And that gives you an .800+ OPS hitter at 3rd base.

 

That being said, if Manny Machado is on the table, yes I'd give up Devers and his long term control in exchange for a 3rd baseman/SS who is everything you hope that Devers would become but is already there.

 

Not to mention that Machado is only 25 years old so there are plenty of good years to be had from him.

 

My only concern is that Machado is a free agent at the end of the year. So I would not give up Devers plus X prospects for Machado unless he is willing to sign an extension.

 

If we get to keep Machado the trade is worth it, if it's just 1 year of Machado on the roster, than it's not.

 

 

Unfortunately if we sign Machado to a long-term deal, it may restrict us from keeping Sale, Betts, Benitendi, etc. in the future too. Can't have it all.

 

If we trade for Machado, I hope we don't include Devers.

[jacksonianmarch]

You cannot get Machado, period. You guys need to start seeing the fact that cap hell is upon you and keeping the band together is going to be priority 1. Dealing some of the band off and reshuffling will be priority 2. Signing big money FA's wont be a priority unless you want to become the 2002 Texas Rangers

[Emp9]

So if your willing to demote him, then you must be all in to Trade him. Machado and Britton for Devers. You doing it? I would. O's in a couple of Months, might get more for these 2. If you could do it now, I would pull the trigger.

This from a love for Devers, by me. It would hurt, but I would do it. Screw the Luxury Tax.

Yanks would worry about the Sox Line-up with Machado, it would be potent.

Britton comes back like he was a couple of years ago, is dominate. Lefty next to Kimbrel, WoW!

I'll even throw in Trey Ball.

 

Ugh. Devers for Machado would be a horribly ugly trade long term. No thanx.

[jacksonianmarch]

Devers plus for Machado is probably what would need to happen. The sox shouldn't do that, but that will be the price. Other teams have deeper farms. The sox would have to sell from their current squad

 

Also, no way the O's dump Britton and Machado for Devers, no shot. Britton is a lefty reliever with the stuff to close. He is one hot month from being a massive trade piece at the deadline. I can see him going to Houston for their roided up minor leaguer, Whitley

[kenmeister]

I wouldn't be surprised if the O's demand that whoever trades for Machado has to take Adam Jones as well. Jones is a good player, but not worth his 17 million salary.

[jacksonianmarch]

Jones is a FA after the season. His add wouldn't be a big one. Now taking on Davis' salary. That's something to consider

[Emp9]

Devers plus for Machado is probably what would need to happen. The sox shouldn't do that, but that will be the price. Other teams have deeper farms. The sox would have to sell from their current squad

 

Also, no way the O's dump Britton and Machado for Devers, no shot. Britton is a lefty reliever with the stuff to close. He is one hot month from being a massive trade piece at the deadline. I can see him going to Houston for their roided up minor leaguer, Whitley

 

But I don’t want Machado. I’m perfectly content with Devers. He hasn’t even played a full season combined yet. 125 Games, 123 total hits, 20 Hrs. Arb eligible 2021, FA 2024. Sox need long term cost contolled players to resign Betts and whoever else they can long term.

[mvp 78]

So if your willing to demote him, then you must be all in to Trade him. Machado and Britton for Devers. You doing it? I would. O's in a couple of Months, might get more for these 2. If you could do it now, I would pull the trigger.

This from a love for Devers, by me. It would hurt, but I would do it. Screw the Luxury Tax.

Yanks would worry about the Sox Line-up with Machado, it would be potent.

Britton comes back like he was a couple of years ago, is dominate. Lefty next to Kimbrel, WoW!

I'll even throw in Trey Ball.

 

What a guy!

[mvp 78]

Devers plus for Machado is probably what would need to happen. The sox shouldn't do that, but that will be the price. Other teams have deeper farms. The sox would have to sell from their current squad

 

Also, no way the O's dump Britton and Machado for Devers, no shot. Britton is a lefty reliever with the stuff to close. He is one hot month from being a massive trade piece at the deadline. I can see him going to Houston for their roided up minor leaguer, Whitley

 

Nope. It'll take less to get Machado as a rental. Devers straight up for Machado is an overpay.

[mvp 78]

Jones is a FA after the season. His add wouldn't be a big one. Now taking on Davis' salary. That's something to consider

 

Weren't you just talking about salary cap hell? Sometimes you make no sense.

[notin]

So if your willing to demote him, then you must be all in to Trade him. Machado and Britton for Devers. You doing it? I would. O's in a couple of Months, might get more for these 2. If you could do it now, I would pull the trigger.

This from a love for Devers, by me. It would hurt, but I would do it. Screw the Luxury Tax.

Yanks would worry about the Sox Line-up with Machado, it would be potent.

Britton comes back like he was a couple of years ago, is dominate. Lefty next to Kimbrel, WoW!

I'll even throw in Trey Ball.

 

So you would trade 5 years of Devers for 3 months of Machado and 3 months of a recovering Zach Britton? Britton has thrown all of ONE INNING this year. Are you certain he is the pitcher he was once?

 

Also, there should be no overlap in willingness to demote a player and willingness to trade a player. The Twins just demoted Miguel Sano. Does that mean they're trading him?

[notin]

Nope. It'll take less to get Machado as a rental. Devers straight up for Machado is an overpay.

 

But would Baltimore say yes to anything else?

[notin]

But I don’t want Machado. I’m perfectly content with Devers. He hasn’t even played a full season combined yet. 125 Games, 123 total hits, 20 Hrs. Arb eligible 2021, FA 2024. Sox need long term cost contolled players to resign Betts and whoever else they can long term.

 

This is so true.

 

Once Sale and Kimbrel go, the Sox are going to NEED to retain Betts and a few others if they want to be competitive. There is no real talent on the farm the Sox can count on to be anything more than minimum wage roster fillers.

[Kimmi]

Players rarely get called up unless there's a need. Just because the need was great does not make it a panic move.

 

Now, had Pablo been hitting well, Devers might still be in the minors.

 

Dombrowski: Devers is not being called up any time soon.

 

One week later, Dombrowski: We are calling up Devers.

 

That equals panic move.

[Kimmi]

Calling up Beni was a panic move.

 

Betts rapid ascension in 2014 was a panic move.

 

You know what would also be a panic move? Sending Devers down right now.

 

No, but sending Swihart down after 6 games was a panic move.

 

And just to be clear, even though calling up Devers was a panic move, I am not in the camp that wants him sent back down. I have said many times that the team needs to be patient with him. I agree that sending him back down would be another panic move.

[Kimmi]

His current OPS is .698, not .755. His OPS+ is 85-below average. And while his defense is slightly better, he still has a slightly negative WAR for the year. Its hard for me to understand why this is viewed by some here as an acceptable level of performance. Yes, the team is doing well, obviously. And yes, Devers is, right now, our best option at 3B. But there are other members of this team that are responsible for our stellar W-L record and they are covering for the deficiencies in the performance Devers is producing. Until he learns the strike zone I don't see him making huge leaps offensively. Just because he is 21 and plays for the Red Sox does not mean he has *potential*. For my part I will just wait and see on that...lots of guys have *potential* and end up failing.

 

Isn't that the way it usually works though? It's very rare that all players on a team are hitting well or even average at the same time. Some guys in the lineup have to pick the other guys up. Hopefully with more at bats, Devers will get to the point where he will be picking up some of his teammates later in the year. Or maybe even sooner in the year!

[Kimmi]

You cannot get Machado, period. You guys need to start seeing the fact that cap hell is upon you and keeping the band together is going to be priority 1. Dealing some of the band off and reshuffling will be priority 2. Signing big money FA's wont be a priority unless you want to become the 2002 Texas Rangers

 

Even if we didn't have the cap to worry about, there is no way that I would trade Devers for Machado.