WAR is the dumbest stat known to mankind (Trout vs. Betts)

[Kimmi]

The biggest weakness in the sport of baseball is that the home plate umpire greatly impacts the most crucial part of the game; the battle between the pitcher and the batter.

 

I'm not sure that I would call it the biggest weakness in the sport, but I do agree that the home plate umpire greatly impacts the game. While umpires will never be perfect, I wholeheartedly believe that the number of missed calls and the subjectivity of the strike zones could be improved with better standards in hiring the umps and better checks in holding the umpires accountable.

[jad]

I'm not sure that I would call it the biggest weakness in the sport, but I do agree that the home plate umpire greatly impacts the game. While umpires will never be perfect, I wholeheartedly believe that the number of missed calls and the subjectivity of the strike zones could be improved with better standards in hiring the umps and better checks in holding the umpires accountable.

 

And how would 'holding them accountable' improve their calls? You could fine them. But so what? It's not as if the umpires are missing calls because they don't care enough. They call what they see. It's just damn hard to "see" a 95mph slider moving through a very ill-defined strike zone that theoretically varies for each hitter (which is absurd of course--it's not as if the basket in the NBA magically moves to a higher position because a taller player is shooting.)

[Bellhorn04]

Of course, Trout is pretty freakin' good his ownself, as Sonny Gray and the Yankees would attest.

[mvp 78]

The biggest problem is the newer ump equipment. They should go back to having those oversized protectors they had back in the day. They don’t get good positioning on the outside pitches anymore.

[S5Dewey]

Part of the problem is that the umpires are trained to set up over the catcher's inside shoulder. That gives them a great view of the inside of the plate. However, they're guessing at where the outside of the plate is and, to a lesser degree, how high or low the ball is when it crosses the plate. They simply don't have enough eyes or enough angles to see both sides of the plate and the elevation of the pitch - and they never will have.

 

On the whole I think umpire do a pretty good job calling balls and strikes but it's frustrating to see what looks like an obviously bad call.

[notin]

It's a crazy tough job but I give them credit for what they do. And yes bad calls do frustrate me.

 

But I find myself being more upset by the calls from NFL and NBA referees than I do MLB umpires....

[Kimmi]

And how would 'holding them accountable' improve their calls? You could fine them. But so what? It's not as if the umpires are missing calls because they don't care enough. They call what they see. It's just damn hard to "see" a 95mph slider moving through a very ill-defined strike zone that theoretically varies for each hitter (which is absurd of course--it's not as if the basket in the NBA magically moves to a higher position because a taller player is shooting.)

 

I'd fire them if they can't perform their jobs to a certain standard.

[Slasher9]

WAR thread seems a good enough place for this....

Condolences to all that lost a loved one in combat.

Thanks to all those that have served.

[moonslav59]

I'd fire them if they can't perform their jobs to a certain standard.

 

What makes you think you'll find someone better?

 

Even the very best umpires make too many bad balls & strikes calls.

[cp176]

What makes you think you'll find someone better?

 

Even the very best umpires make too many bad balls & strikes calls.

 

First of all let me say that I really am against replay for the most part in this great old past time but if you are going to use instant replay with an emphasis on getting it right so to speak I can't imagine anybody except people like me who would be against using robots to call your balls and strikes. Maybe it would help us since then we might be able to find a catcher who could hit due to the fact that framing pitches wouldn't seem to have much importance anymore. I love the game but have to admit that it is getting tiresome with an over emphasis with a need to prove everything to be right. They still on occasion don't seem to get it right. I get frustrated when it looks like umps make mistakes but it also makes me appreciate the parts of this game that are imperfect. The human element with all of its faults has always made the game much more entertaining to me.

[cp176]

WAR thread seems a good enough place for this....

Condolences to all that lost a loved one in combat.

Thanks to all those that have served.

 

 

ty

All gave something, some gave everything! It is important to remember.

[moonslav59]

First of all let me say that I really am against replay for the most part in this great old past time but if you are going to use instant replay with an emphasis on getting it right so to speak I can't imagine anybody except people like me who would be against using robots to call your balls and strikes. Maybe it would help us since then we might be able to find a catcher who could hit due to the fact that framing pitches wouldn't seem to have much importance anymore. I love the game but have to admit that it is getting tiresome with an over emphasis with a need to prove everything to be right. They still on occasion don't seem to get it right. I get frustrated when it looks like umps make mistakes but it also makes me appreciate the parts of this game that are imperfect. The human element with all of its faults has always made the game much more entertaining to me.

 

I respect the traditions of the game, but I can't see how a blown call is ever entertaining, except maybe when Earl Weaver covered home plate with dirt.

[cp176]

I respect the traditions of the game, but I can't see how a blown call is ever entertaining, except maybe when Earl Weaver covered home plate with dirt.

 

So we disagree and that is ok - the addition of the human element always makes things entertaining for me whether they are proven right or wrong - the constant use of replay and the obvious attempt to sterilize the game does not interest me at all. My "fan card" is running out I think. As we use replay more and more and with the possibility of using robots to even call balls and strikes for us, I see a trend toward no umpires whatsoever. Not for me I guess. I'm glad that they still print real books for me to read. It will give me something to do on these otherwise baseball days.

[Maxbialystock]

I respect the traditions of the game, but I can't see how a blown call is ever entertaining, except maybe when Earl Weaver covered home plate with dirt.

 

This is where you lose me. Blown calls did not prevent baseball from becoming America's pastime or America's being fixated on WS day games to the extent radio broadcasts and other means were used to keep even school kids informed. Blown calls happened and, if crucial, were much talked about, but the game still thrived.

 

To me baseball is quintessentially a human endeavor and humans, thank goodness, do make mistakes--batters, pitchers, fielders, baserunners, coaches, and yes, umpires.

[mvp 78]

This is where you lose me. Blown calls did not prevent baseball from becoming America's pastime or America's being fixated on WS day games to the extent radio broadcasts and other means were used to keep even school kids informed. Blown calls happened and, if crucial, were much talked about, but the game still thrived.

 

To me baseball is quintessentially a human endeavor and humans, thank goodness, do make mistakes--batters, pitchers, fielders, baserunners, coaches, and yes, umpires.

 

Even though its customers were dying left and right from cancer, the cigarette industry thrived! No reason for regulation!

[oldtimer]

Part of the problem is that the umpires are trained to set up over the catcher's inside shoulder. That gives them a great view of the inside of the plate. However, they're guessing at where the outside of the plate is and, to a lesser degree, how high or low the ball is when it crosses the plate. They simply don't have enough eyes or enough angles to see both sides of the plate and the elevation of the pitch - and they never will have.

 

On the whole I think umpire do a pretty good job calling balls and strikes but it's frustrating to see what looks like an obviously bad call.

 

What I find frustrating is that different umpires appear to have their own strikezone. Some will call a strike that is clearly outside and do it repeatedly. Some will not call a strike at the letters and they do that repeatedly. Its not that the calls are blown it is how they define the strike zone. You will get true blown calls and with humans involved it will happen, but having each umpire have a personal strike zone is bother some. Just like Watson can beat the best chess players, computers can also detect pitches in a 3d strikezone programmed to agree with the rules of baseball. Keep the umpire as there is other work for the home plate umpire to do.

[Slasher9]

I'm more OK with a ump having his own K zone as long as he is consistent. it is super frustrating when 1 inning a pitch is a strike and the next inning the same spot is a ball.

ROBOT UMPS NOW.

[Maxbialystock]

Even though its customers were dying left and right from cancer, the cigarette industry thrived! No reason for regulation!

 

Baseball games are in fact regulated by four umpires--plenty to make all the calls. This does not mean they won't make mistakes.

 

I'm pretty sure the tobacco industry is still unregulated. They can be sued, but the making of cigarettes is not unlawful. Their products can also be taxed, in many instances, heavily. But it is still legal to smoke whatever in this country. The best weapon against smoking--other than lawsuits or taxes--is publicity, and that is mostly working.

[Slasher9]

Vaping is the robot ump of smoking......

[mvp 78]

I'm more OK with a ump having his own K zone as long as he is consistent. it is super frustrating when 1 inning a pitch is a strike and the next inning the same spot is a ball.

ROBOT UMPS NOW.

 

Now and forever amen.

[mvp 78]

Baseball games are in fact regulated by four umpires

 

Who is regulating the regulators? They are held accountable to no one. Sad! These crooked umpires (rigged game) are ruining our beloved pastime... not good. Fans must agree to Robot Umps for good of the game!

[S5Dewey]

who is regulating the regulators? They are held accountable to no one. Sad! These crooked umpires (rigged game) are ruining our beloved pastime... Not good. Fans must agree to robot umps for good of the game!

 

make baseball great again!!

[Bellhorn04]

Who is regulating the regulators? They are held accountable to no one. Sad! These crooked umpires (rigged game) are ruining our beloved pastime... not good. Fans must agree to Robot Umps for good of the game!

 

It could be worse, check out the NBA thread.

[Maxbialystock]

Who is regulating the regulators? They are held accountable to no one. Sad! These crooked umpires (rigged game) are ruining our beloved pastime... not good. Fans must agree to Robot Umps for good of the game!

 

I hope you are baiting me, which I probably deserve. I just happen to believe the umps are a plus, not a minus, and shudder at the prospect of robot umps.

[mvp 78]

It could be worse, check out the NBA thread.

 

Ugh, no.

 

I struggle watching NBA these days. The fact that there are trackers for referee winning %'s for a home team makes me never want to watch basketball again. Too many fouls. Ruins the integrity and flow of the game for me.

[Kimmi]

What makes you think you'll find someone better?

 

Even the very best umpires make too many bad balls & strikes calls.

 

I think they could be trained. I'm not saying that an umpire will ever be near perfect, but I think we could get a fair improvement on missed calls. I also think we could get a more consistent idea of where the strike zone is.

[Kimmi]

What I find frustrating is that different umpires appear to have their own strikezone. Some will call a strike that is clearly outside and do it repeatedly. Some will not call a strike at the letters and they do that repeatedly. Its not that the calls are blown it is how they define the strike zone. You will get true blown calls and with humans involved it will happen, but having each umpire have a personal strike zone is bother some. Just like Watson can beat the best chess players, computers can also detect pitches in a 3d strikezone programmed to agree with the rules of baseball. Keep the umpire as there is other work for the home plate umpire to do.

 

This is what I'm talking about oldtimer.

 

Back to the subjectivity of balls and strikes, and therefore, the subjectivity of every related stat. An umpire can more or less make the strike zone whatever he wants to.

[Slasher9]

make baseball great again!!

 

Mbga

[kenmeister]

I'm happy to report that today, Mookie Betts stands at 8.1 WAR and Mike Trout at 7.8.

[notin]

Who is regulating the regulators? They are held accountable to no one. Sad! These crooked umpires (rigged game) are ruining our beloved pastime... not good. Fans must agree to Robot Umps for good of the game!

 

Really? Do you actually think umpires are not accountable to league office and to job reviews?

 

I wouldn't be surprised if one of the factors held against them were number of calls an umpire made that was challenged and/or overturned....