WAR is the dumbest stat known to mankind (Trout vs. Betts)

[Bellhorn04]

It's not just the missed calls. Think of all the borderline calls that could go either way. There is a great deal of subjectivity that goes into calling balls and strikes.

 

There's definitely subjectivity. Shouldn't the missed calls pretty much even out over time, though?

[S5Dewey]

Well, I guess accusing and deflecting would be easier than actually answering the questions I keep posing in this debate...

 

Actually I said a while back that I was done with this argument. It's too frustrating. We keep going around and around and around with the same things.

 

Ask away, but I have no obligation to answer a question just because you asked it.

[a700hitter]

No one in the history of baseball has ever said that the eye test, ie scouting, is not valuable.

No one in the history of baseball has ever said that anyone has ever said that the eye, ie scouting, is not valuable.

[a700hitter]

Gee, I wish I'd said that.

I wish that he had said "f*** off, Notin, you annoying twit. You are never remotely close to accurate in what you think people are saying, and then you demand answers to your ridiculous questions based on your incorrect perceptions. So, f*** off." That is what I wish he had said.

[moonslav59]

...and us stat guys get labeled as being insensitive, unaccepting and rigid.

[Kimmi]

There's definitely subjectivity. Shouldn't the missed calls pretty much even out over time, though?

 

In some cases, they probably do. But there are certain pitchers who get more than their share of strikes called because of their reputation. Mariano got something like 20% more strikes called than he should have. I don't think umpires do that intentionally, I think it's mostly due to confirmation bias.

 

Also, umpires are more likely to call a ball a strike on a 3-0 count than they are at other times. With the count now 3-1, how often do hitters who should have received a walk go on to make an out or even get a hit, which affects their and the pitchers' BB stat.

 

At any rate, whether the calls even out or not really shouldn't be a consideration. It doesn't change the amount of subjectivity that goes into those stats.

[cp176]

...and us stat guys get labeled as being insensitive, unaccepting and rigid.

 

 

You shouldn't even be posting in this conversation. For a stat guy, I find your viewpoints refreshing most of the time. You have actually admitted being wrong on occasion just like the rest of us old guys who just don't get it.

[cp176]

I wish that he had said "f*** off, Notin, you annoying twit. You are never remotely close to accurate in what you think people are saying, and then you demand answers to your ridiculous questions based on your incorrect perceptions. So, f*** off." That is what I wish he had said.

 

I probably should have but I actually have found notin to be tolerable some of the time. When he gets into his "I'm smarter than everyone else" mode than I tend to lash out.

[notin]

I wish that he had said "f*** off, Notin, you annoying twit. You are never remotely close to accurate in what you think people are saying, and then you demand answers to your ridiculous questions based on your incorrect perceptions. So, f*** off." That is what I wish he had said.

 

I bet you get fan mail in your inbox when you say stuff like that to me. I know I get it when I say stuff like that to you...

[notin]

I probably should have but I actually have found notin to be tolerable some of the time. When he gets into his "I'm smarter than everyone else" mode than I tend to lash out.

 

And here is the Backfire Effect, but with a twist.

 

I'm actually trying to explain these concepts and there relevance and how to use them to enhance the game whole deliberately not sounding like a know-it-all. But my perception has been that you and others are actually the know-it-all's and don't want to hear any of it.

 

Odd comical twist to the debate...

[a700hitter]

I bet you get fan mail in your inbox when you say stuff like that to me. I know I get it when I say stuff like that to you...

I didn't say it. I was hoping that CP would say it.

 

And yes, there is fan mail and autograph requests.

[notin]

Actually I said a while back that I was done with this argument. It's too frustrating. We keep going around and around and around with the same things.

 

Ask away, but I have no obligation to answer a question just because you asked it.

 

It wasn't about obligation; it was a simple debate on a message board. We both had opposing sides and I tried to alter your view of mine.

 

But then, that's how debates work...

[notin]

I didn't say it. I was hoping that CP would say it.

 

And yes, there is fan mail and autograph requests.

 

So does that make us the Floyd Mayweather and Colin McGregor of TalkSox?

 

If so, you're McGregor...

[a700hitter]

Everything isn't a debate which connotes opposing views. Sometimes people just want to discuss their observations without challenging opposition. Many of us have spouses to serve that purpose.

[a700hitter]

So does that make us the Floyd Mayweather and Colin McGregor of TalkSox?

 

If so, you're McGregor...

You are know Notin

[notin]

Everything isn't a debate which connotes opposing views. Sometimes people just want to discuss their observations without challenging opposition. Many of us have spouses to serve that purpose.

 

But the difference here on TalkSox is it's a debate you might be able to win.

Edited May 23, 2018 by notin

[notin]

Everything isn't a debate which connotes opposing views. Sometimes people just want to discuss their observations without challenging opposition.

 

Well, bear in mind the thread title we are posting on...

[a700hitter]

But the difference here on TalkSox is it's a debate you might be able to win.

Haha. Excellent point. At least, here there is a debate. Edited May 23, 2018 by a700hitter

[a700hitter]

Well, bear in mind the thread title we are posting on...

True, but other than the creator of the thread, I don't think anyone else has taken that position in the thread.

[moonslav59]

But the difference here on TalkSox is it's a debate you might be able to win.

 

Classic!

 

[notin]

It's a metric!

 

And you went put that awful wedding dance in my head now...

[notin]

True, but other than the creator of the thread, I don't think anyone else has taken that position in the thread.

 

Page 1 was a lot of Edwin Starr jokes, But after that the criticisms of it start. ..

[Spudboy]

I didn't say it. I was hoping that CP would say it.

 

And yes, there is fan mail and autograph requests.

 

I'm one of the lucky few that have a signed glossy photo with you.

[Slasher9]

Probably two of the simplest stats are Ks and BBs, or variations of them like K%, K/BB ratio, etc., for both pitchers and batters. Everyone uses them without much of a second thought, probably because they've been around forever. At the same time, Ks and BBs are probably the most subjective stat there is, far more subjective than defensive metrics. Not only do umpires have different strike zones, but how often do they miss calls? Additionally, it has been proven that umpires have biases.

 

Robot umps now!!

[moonslav59]

Robot umps now!!

 

With you all the way.

[Kimmi]

Robot umps now!!

 

Yet I am still opposed to robot umps. And instant replay.

[Maxbialystock]

Yet I am still opposed to robot umps. And instant replay.

 

Excuse me, but it is not nor has it ever been instant. It is interminable replay.

[mvp 78]

Excuse me, but it is not nor has it ever been instant. It is interminable replay.

 

Hold on for a minute while they decide if they want to challenge or not. Tick tock tick tock.

[Bellhorn04]

Yet I am still opposed to robot umps. And instant replay.

 

Robots for balls and strikes are never going to happen. I'm not going to worry about that one anymore. Just have to have as much fun as possible with the blown calls LOL

[Bellhorn04]

Excuse me, but it is not nor has it ever been instant. It is interminable replay.

 

What's amazing is that we still have blown calls that stand even after replays. Human beings can screw up anything.

 

But there are a heck of a lot of overturned calls, so it does kind of justify the use of it.