Best Red Sox Manager---Ever?

[cp176]

Francona has to get the not and rightfully so but Dick Williams is on his heels for sure. Cora is off to a nice start. I like him too - he is off to a nice start. Five years from now if he is still here ok we'll see.

[sk7326]

Francona and Dick Williams are the clear Top 2 in some order. Francona had more talent than Williams for the most part. But Williams got results in multiple places (San Diego, Oakland) afterward ... he was a turnaround artist with a more limited shelf life than Francona, but he was excellent.

 

Jimy Williams is probably 3rd (at least from my lifetime of Red Sox managers which goes back to Houk)

 

Cora is not going to go 144-18. What is interesting so far is the Sox have gotten early improved performance from places where you'd expect performance. The pitching is another thing - unsustainable, but hooray for now.

[Youk Of The Nation]

Francona and Dick Williams are the clear Top 2 in some order. Francona had more talent than Williams for the most part. But Williams got results in multiple places (San Diego, Oakland) afterward ... he was a turnaround artist with a more limited shelf life than Francona, but he was excellent.

 

Jimy Williams is probably 3rd (at least from my lifetime of Red Sox managers which goes back to Houk)

 

Cora is not going to go 144-18. What is interesting so far is the Sox have gotten early improved performance from places where you'd expect performance. The pitching is another thing - unsustainable, but hooray for now.

 

Francona has done alright since leaving the Sox. Given his health issues, I doubt he'll manage another team after Cleveland, but I think he's proven that he could.

[notin]

Cora has managed this team for 3 weeks. How is he even in the argument yet? He's managed this team for less time than Torey Lovullo...

[notin]

Hobson was one of the worst, along with Joe Kerrigan, who clearly found his niche in life as pitching coach.

 

But a massively overrated manager might have been Don Zimmer, who forced the hand of upper management to trade away players he couldn't control. I know pitching was valued less than hitting in 1978, but how on Earth do you ever justify trading a starting pitcher for a utility infielder? The Bagwell/Anderson deal is one of the most overrated in Sox history, simply because dealing Lee for Stan Papi was the dumbest trade ever. Zimmer should have been fired instead....

[Bellhorn04]

Hobson was one of the worst, along with Joe Kerrigan, who clearly found his niche in life as pitching coach.

 

But a massively overrated manager might have been Don Zimmer, who forced the hand of upper management to trade away players he couldn't control. I know pitching was valued less than hitting in 1978, but how on Earth do you ever justify trading a starting pitcher for a utility infielder? The Bagwell/Anderson deal is one of the most overrated in Sox history, simply because dealing Lee for Stan Papi was the dumbest trade ever. Zimmer should have been fired instead....

 

Zimmer had the reins of what was arguably the best Red Sox team of all time, the 1978 team. In a way he was incredibly unlucky that season turned out the way it did. But he had a hand in it by burying Lee that year, among other things.

[sk7326]

Francona has done alright since leaving the Sox. Given his health issues, I doubt he'll manage another team after Cleveland, but I think he's proven that he could.

 

I would put Francona #1, especially how he has won and succeded with both younger and veteran personnel. But Dick Williams is very close - close enough I would not argue with someone who liked him better.

[a700hitter]

Zimmer had the reins of what was arguably the best Red Sox team of all time, the 1978 team. In a way he was incredibly unlucky that season turned out the way it did. But he had a hand in it by burying Lee that year, among other things.

I viewed Pedro’s take down of Zim as 25 over due for his spiteful and stupid burying of Lee despite heavy lobbying by Yaz.

[mvp 78]

I viewed Pedro’s take down of Zim as 25 over due for his spiteful and stupid burying of Lee despite heavy lobbying by Yaz.

 

How could that monster do that to such a lovable old gerbil? For shame!

[Bellhorn04]

Cora has managed this team for 3 weeks. How is he even in the argument yet? He's managed this team for less time than Torey Lovullo...

 

The fellow that started this thread is a little excitable. He's also in his 90's. Being excitable at that age is actually kind of impressive...

[Slasher9]

The fellow that started this thread is a little excitable. He's also in his 90's. Being excitable at that age is actually kind of impressive...

 

this.

[Spudboy]

How could that monster do that to such a lovable old gerbil? For shame!

 

I though what Pedro did was merciful.

[Spudboy]

this.

 

Excitable?

 

It's 420 folks.

 

Wake and bake the order of the day.

[Dojji]

It's going to take a lot of work to beat Tito's performance. Terry Francona is an excellent manager, and he's proven his quality by taking Cleveland into the playoffs several times after he left us. I think I was never madder at the Red Sox for any single decision they made, than I was when they fired Terry Francona.

 

John Farrell was an adequate replacement, but he just wasn't Tito. Tito did need that sabbatical year or two he took after he was fired to get his health in order, but after that, he should have come back here, and we should have let him take his sabbatical and let DeMarlo Hale (the bench coach at the time) manage the team in his absence until he felt he could come back. Hale would have done a fine job, and then we'd still have Tito. But that's water under the bridge now.

[Bellhorn04]

I though what Pedro did was merciful.

 

It was freaking hilarious quite honestly. I was just pissed the f'king Yanks won the game.

[Spudboy]

It was freaking hilarious quite honestly. I was just pissed the f'king Yanks won the game.

 

It was funny but my point is that the optics of that indecent make Pedro look like he is a bully and many people chastised him for what he did.

 

I don't get, though. Some crazed old man takes a run at you what are you to do exactly? Stop to intellectualize your response? Meanwhile a 230 pound man is trying to hurt you.

 

Pedro could have stood there and traded shots with Zimmer. That could have been catastrophic.

 

Throwing him to the ground ended it before it had a chance to be really bad.

[notin]

It was freaking hilarious quite honestly. I was just pissed the f'king Yanks won the game.

 

And it was also fodder for a very funny SNL sketch with Horatio Saenz as Zimmer...

[Maxbialystock]

It was funny but my point is that the optics of that indecent make Pedro look like he is a bully and many people chastised him for what he did.

 

I don't get, though. Some crazed old man takes a run at you what are you to do exactly? Stop to intellectualize your response? Meanwhile a 230 pound man is trying to hurt you.

 

Pedro could have stood there and traded shots with Zimmer. That could have been catastrophic.

 

Throwing him to the ground ended it before it had a chance to be really bad.

 

I've always like Pedro. And in this instance Zimmer was the one in the wrong and said so the next day. He sure didn't like Pedro one bit, which is fine until he goes running out on the field to get Pedro during a brawl started by Clemens throwing close to Manny. 7 game series, vintage stuff. Some say 2004 was even better, but I don't know. All that did was end the 86 year old curse.

[S5Dewey]

The fellow that started this thread is a little excitable. He's also in his 90's. Being excitable at that age is actually kind of impressive...

 

Mal is my role model.

[mvp 78]

I though what Pedro did was merciful.

 

[sk7326]

It's going to take a lot of work to beat Tito's performance. Terry Francona is an excellent manager, and he's proven his quality by taking Cleveland into the playoffs several times after he left us. I think I was never madder at the Red Sox for any single decision they made, than I was when they fired Terry Francona.

 

John Farrell was an adequate replacement, but he just wasn't Tito. Tito did need that sabbatical year or two he took after he was fired to get his health in order, but after that, he should have come back here, and we should have let him take his sabbatical and let DeMarlo Hale (the bench coach at the time) manage the team in his absence until he felt he could come back. Hale would have done a fine job, and then we'd still have Tito. But that's water under the bridge now.

 

How often does that happen realistically (not that it shouldn't). And besides Antonetti is one of his old friends - it was probably hard to resist when he offered him a gig.

[cp176]

Francona and Dick Williams are the clear Top 2 in some order. Francona had more talent than Williams for the most part. But Williams got results in multiple places (San Diego, Oakland) afterward ... he was a turnaround artist with a more limited shelf life than Francona, but he was excellent.

 

Jimy Williams is probably 3rd (at least from my lifetime of Red Sox managers which goes back to Houk)

 

Cora is not going to go 144-18. What is interesting so far is the Sox have gotten early improved performance from places where you'd expect performance. The pitching is another thing - unsustainable, but hooray for now.

 

How about this - I agree entirely. Williams I suppose goes a little under the radar unless you were around to see what he accomplished or if you are somewhat of a historian of the game. Personally I like the fact that you even left a little room for Williams to be first on the list. Guess I would go Francona - Williams - Williams.

[Carpin]

A related question: does anyone remember the Yankees playing this sloppy under Joe Girardi?

 

The Yankees sloppiness is quite noticeable.

 

Why get rid of Joe Girardi? He won a W.S., and did pretty well with a team that was going through some kind of rebuilding period. He was one win away form the W.S. last year. And then Cashman replaces him with a guy who never even served as a bench coach. Brilliant.

 

Stupidity is the only explanation

 

I guess Cashman wanted a "yes man" on the job, now is coming back and biting us in the rear end. I understand he wanted a new face in command with all the young guys, but why Boone? he didn't have any previous coaching experience. If not Girardi, why not pick Pedrique (former Scranton manager)?

[Slasher9]

It was funny but my point is that the optics of that indecent make Pedro look like he is a bully and many people chastised him for what he did.

 

I don't get, though. Some crazed old man takes a run at you what are you to do exactly? Stop to intellectualize your response? Meanwhile a 230 pound man is trying to hurt you.

 

Pedro could have stood there and traded shots with Zimmer. That could have been catastrophic.

 

Throwing him to the ground ended it before it had a chance to be really bad.

i agree with every word.

[fxkatt]

I'm glad Joe is gone from New York, because I really admire him, and of course, rooted against his team.

 

As to Sox managers, not a hell of a lot to focus on. I guess I would say Joe Cronin... and I hope our current one, may last 10 years, and end up surpassing all his predecessors. (most of the Sox managers I liked a lot only had short stints and Francona was good but never impressive as a public presence or spokesman)

[S5Dewey]

It was funny but my point is that the optics of that indecent make Pedro look like he is a bully and many people chastised him for what he did.

 

I don't get, though. Some crazed old man takes a run at you what are you to do exactly? Stop to intellectualize your response? Meanwhile a 230 pound man is trying to hurt you.

 

Pedro could have stood there and traded shots with Zimmer. That could have been catastrophic.

 

Throwing him to the ground ended it before it had a chance to be really bad.

 

I never understood the criticism Pedro got for that play. Zim put Pedro in an impossible situation. There is nothing Pedro could have done that would have been seen as right. "Duking it out" with Zim would have been a horrible mistake and instead Pedro ended it by pushing Zim to the ground.

I keep wondering if all the Zimmer supporters are forgetting that Zim initiated the conflict with Pedro. Pedro defended himself in the best (and IMO the most respectful) way possible.

[Dojji]

How often does that happen realistically (not that it shouldn't).

 

I fully recognize that this all is pure woulda-coulda-shoulda.

 

And besides Antonetti is one of his old friends - it was probably hard to resist when he offered him a gig.

 

Which is why I wish they'd kept some kind of contractural hold on Tito even while he had to take some time to get his health in order.

[S5Dewey]

I fully recognize that this all is pure woulda-coulda-shoulda.

 

 

 

Which is why I wish they'd kept some kind of contractural hold on Tito even while he had to take some time to get his health in order.

 

That may have been a hard sell to convince Tito of after the FO suggested that his use of pain killers affected his ability to manage.

[Emp9]

I never understood the criticism Pedro got for that play. Zim put Pedro in an impossible situation. There is nothing Pedro could have done that would have been seen as right. "Duking it out" with Zim would have been a horrible mistake and instead Pedro ended it by pushing Zim to the ground.

I keep wondering if all the Zimmer supporters are forgetting that Zim initiated the conflict with Pedro. Pedro defended himself in the best (and IMO the most respectful) way possible.

 

Most media outlets showed a super edited version of that confrontation which only showed Pedro pushing him down with zero context on what led to that.

[moonslav59]

I never understood the criticism Pedro got for that play. Zim put Pedro in an impossible situation. There is nothing Pedro could have done that would have been seen as right. "Duking it out" with Zim would have been a horrible mistake and instead Pedro ended it by pushing Zim to the ground.

I keep wondering if all the Zimmer supporters are forgetting that Zim initiated the conflict with Pedro. Pedro defended himself in the best (and IMO the most respectful) way possible.

 

He kind of "Olay'ed" Zim like a bull fighter with a charging bull.

 

There was a slight hint of malicious down trust applied by Pedro, but the situation was very heated.

 

Edited April 20, 2018 by moonslav59