A Realistic View at 2018: Part II

[Slasher9]

I don't live in the Boston area either. What I hear is coming from the game feeds.

 

right. sometimes they show JDM having a chat with X-bo or Benny and they assume/state he is schooling them on hitting. he could very well be telling them about the blonde with big ta-ta's in section 102 row 3......

i need independent sourcing outside of dave obrien (who doesnt know a can of corn from a dinger) or dennis eckersly (who is more concerned about "i gotta have that")...

[sk7326]

But if Martinez has the traits of a really good hitting coach, helping other hitters with their mechanics, their approach, pointing out things about opposing pitchers, that's not magical/speaking in tongues stuff.

 

I think he has been a positive. In a sense we are arguing something unknowable. And - we are arguing something causal about last year's performance when injuries and youth explain it just as well. I am more comfortable arguing for Martinez tangible value (massive upgrade at DH/OF, especially in the specific way the team needed).

[oldtimer]

I think he has been a positive. In a sense we are arguing something unknowable. And - we are arguing something causal about last year's performance when injuries and youth explain it just as well. I am more comfortable arguing for Martinez tangible value (massive upgrade at DH/OF, especially in the specific way the team needed).

 

The guy who I think has been helped the most is Bogaerts. He did have injuries last year but this year he is more aggressive and trying to use the power he has had but not really used. I credit Cora with that change by instructing him to be more aggressive on strikes early and asking him to try to pull more balls. Maybe JDM has also helped him but to me it was Cora who set the tone.

[a700hitter]

But if Martinez has the traits of a really good hitting coach, helping other hitters with their mechanics, their approach, pointing out things about opposing pitchers, that's not magical/speaking in tongues stuff.

I agree. It is also not baseless speculation as it has been reported numerous times how other players are observing him and his preparation. Some players are having their BP video taped like he does. He has been open about sharing his knowledge with his mates. There was a mentorship void when Ortiz left. During his tenure , he watched a ton of video and he was a master at spotting pitchers’ tendencies. He would often bring some of the guys into the video room to show them what he had spotted. This is not speculation. It does have an effect.

[Jack Flap]

There have been stories throughout the year about other guys going to JD for hitting advice, working with him on their swings, etc. I'll try to track down some links later, maybe. Off the top of my head, I thought it's been said that Mookie talks to him almost daily about how he's doing, and that he's worked with Devers a lot as well.

[a700hitter]

There have been stories throughout the year about other guys going to JD for hitting advice, working with him on their swings, etc. I'll try to track down some links later, maybe. Off the top of my head, I thought it's been said that Mookie talks to him almost daily about how he's doing, and that he's worked with Devers a lot as well.

They have told these stories numerous times on NESN, WEEI and possibly some of the Nationally broadcasted games, but I guess that it doesn’t exist for some people in the Internet age unless there is a link. LOL!

[moonslav59]

JD has most definitely helped in that sense. That said, do you think that the other players would not have improved this year without JD's help?

 

That's probably a better question to ask with a follow up of, "How much more have they improved from 2017, because of JD?" (if any)

 

Some seem to think it is the "Papi effect." I'm not sure Papi had hitters emulating him or his style, or that he helped others in a hitting coach way all that much (more, less or the same as JD?) Some felt his "protection was the main reason others did better, and his drop off after losing Manny added some evidence to this claim (although JBay did pretty darn well for a year and a half.)

 

It's hard to assign percentages to all the factors involved in the turn around of almost all our players not named Vazquez. I was positive most would have better seasons before we even signed JD. These are probably the biggest factors in my view (not in any order of influence:

 

1. Better health (We had a lot of players playing while hurt last year, especially Betts, Bogey & Moreland.)

2. Players getting closer to prime or with one more year of added experience (Beni, Betts, Bogey).

3. New coaching and manager.

4. JD added into the line-up.

5. JD added as mentor and coach.

6. Osmosis (Players just seem to do better when everyone else around them is doing better.)

7. Voodoo magic (Just kidding.)

[Jack Flap]

The ASG must be the peak opportunity for the media to corner players and extract pleasant and ultimately inconsequential quotes about their future contract plans.

 

JDM: https://www.masslive.com/redsox/index.ssf/2018/07/boston_red_sox_slugger_jd_martinez_extension.html

Kimbrel: https://www.masslive.com/redsox/index.ssf/2018/07/craig_kimbrel_on_potential_new.html

Mookie: https://www.masslive.com/redsox/index.ssf/2018/07/mookie_betts_on_potential_bost.html

[Bellhorn04]

JD has most definitely helped in that sense. That said, do you think that the other players would not have improved this year without JD's help?

 

To me that's an entirely different question.

 

I suspect the improvement is a combination of a bunch of factors.

 

I'm quite sure a clear measurement of these factors is impossible.

 

But that won't stop us from arguing about them all season.

[Hitch]

To me that's an entirely different question.

 

I suspect the improvement is a combination of a bunch of factors.

 

I'm quite sure a clear measurement of these factors is impossible.

 

But that won't stop us from arguing about them all season.

 

 

Yeah it's exactly this. As with most things, the answer is somewhere in the middle. We are better this year for a multiple of reasons. Some reasons will be higher than others, but we have no way of knowing which they are.

[Hitch]

The ASG must be the peak opportunity for the media to corner players and extract pleasant and ultimately inconsequential quotes about their future contract plans.

 

JDM: https://www.masslive.com/redsox/index.ssf/2018/07/boston_red_sox_slugger_jd_martinez_extension.html

Kimbrel: https://www.masslive.com/redsox/index.ssf/2018/07/craig_kimbrel_on_potential_new.html

Mookie: https://www.masslive.com/redsox/index.ssf/2018/07/mookie_betts_on_potential_bost.html

 

Pretty strong answers from JD and Kimbrel.

[a700hitter]

Yeah it's exactly this. As with most things, the answer is somewhere in the middle. We are better this year for a multiple of reasons. Some reasons will be higher than others, but we have no way of knowing which they are.

And no one is arguing that it isn’t a combination of factors. The discussion is over which factor has had the biggest influence. Do you think that each of the factors has had the exact same degree of influence?

[jacksonianmarch]

Pretty strong answers from JD and Kimbrel.

 

They love it in Boston. They will also love it in Kalamazoo if they got top dollar there.

[Hitch]

And no one is arguing that it isn’t a combination of factors. The discussion is over which factor has had the biggest influence. Do you think that each of the factors has had the exact same degree of influence?

 

No. And the way you can know this is because I quite literally say that they aren't in the post you quoted. lol

 

See I do have a sense of humour.

[Spudboy]

On another note....

 

My family and I are in Quebec City and will be off to Montreal soon, then back to Maine for a few days more.

 

Beautiful city. Reminds me of Paris.

 

Have a great break everyone!

 

 

 

Quebec City is a lot of fun.

 

I enjoyed being able to walk into a small corner store and being able to but quality pate.

 

That diagonal lift thingy is a blast.

 

The only thing I don't care for is the smell of urine in the streets and dodging piles of horse s***.

[moonslav59]

If you had to assign a percent to each of the factors listed, what would they be?

 

1. Better health (We had a lot of players playing while hurt last year, especially Betts, Bogey & Moreland.)

2. Players getting closer to prime or with one more year of added experience (Beni, Betts, Bogey).

3. New coaching and manager.

4. JD added into the line-up.

5. JD added as mentor and coach.

6. Osmosis (Players just seem to do better when everyone else around them is doing better.)

7. Other (Please clarify)

 

Without putting a ton of thought into it, I'd go this way:

 

25% Better health

24% Age/prime year progression

23% New coaching & manager

22% JD's presence (I combined 4 & 5)

6% Osmosis

[sk7326]

If you had to assign a percent to each of the factors listed, what would they be?

 

1. Better health (We had a lot of players playing while hurt last year, especially Betts, Bogey & Moreland.)

2. Players getting closer to prime or with one more year of added experience (Beni, Betts, Bogey).

3. New coaching and manager.

4. JD added into the line-up.

5. JD added as mentor and coach.

6. Osmosis (Players just seem to do better when everyone else around them is doing better.)

7. Other (Please clarify)

 

Without putting a ton of thought into it, I'd go this way:

 

25% Better health

24% Age/prime year progression

23% New coaching & manager

22% JD's presence (I combined 4 & 5)

6% Osmosis

 

That is pretty fair

[moonslav59]

Quebec City is a lot of fun.

 

I enjoyed being able to walk into a small corner store and being able to but quality pate.

 

That diagonal lift thingy is a blast.

 

The only thing I don't care for is the smell of urine in the streets and dodging piles of horse s***.

 

I haven't experienced those bad things, but I'll watch where I walk.

 

I'm loving the crepes and other fine foods.

 

We're off to cruise the Ile d'Orleans today in the misty rain. Weather has been perfect every other day.

[a700hitter]

No. And the way you can know this is because I quite literally say that they aren't in the post you quoted. lol

 

See I do have a sense of humour.

A sense of humor can be unifying characteristic.

[Hitch]

If you had to assign a percent to each of the factors listed, what would they be?

 

1. Better health (We had a lot of players playing while hurt last year, especially Betts, Bogey & Moreland.)

2. Players getting closer to prime or with one more year of added experience (Beni, Betts, Bogey).

3. New coaching and manager.

4. JD added into the line-up.

5. JD added as mentor and coach.

6. Osmosis (Players just seem to do better when everyone else around them is doing better.)

7. Other (Please clarify)

 

Without putting a ton of thought into it, I'd go this way:

 

25% Better health

24% Age/prime year progression

23% New coaching & manager

22% JD's presence (I combined 4 & 5)

6% Osmosis

 

Yeah I'd say it would be spread out similar to this, too.

[a700hitter]

If you had to assign a percent to each of the factors listed, what would they be?

 

1. Better health (We had a lot of players playing while hurt last year, especially Betts, Bogey & Moreland.)

2. Players getting closer to prime or with one more year of added experience (Beni, Betts, Bogey).

3. New coaching and manager.

4. JD added into the line-up.

5. JD added as mentor and coach.

6. Osmosis (Players just seem to do better when everyone else around them is doing better.)

7. Other (Please clarify)

 

Without putting a ton of thought into it, I'd go this way:

 

25% Better health

24% Age/prime year progression

23% New coaching & manager

22% JD's presence (I combined 4 & 5)

6% Osmosis

I don’t think it is that even.

[Spudboy]

I haven't experienced those bad things, but I'll watch where I walk.

 

I'm loving the crepes and other fine foods.

 

We're off to cruise the Ile d'Orleans today in the misty rain. Weather has been perfect every other day.

 

You are right about the crepes.

 

It rained one day when I was there. We took a cab ride to some natural history museum. That place was pretty interesting.

 

I'm glad you are having a blast.

[Bellhorn04]

They love it in Boston. They will also love it in Kalamazoo if they got top dollar there.

 

Man that's cynical.

[mvp 78]

Man that's cynical.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalamazoo_Growlers

 

Especially since I don't believe he has the right eligibility to play for the Growlers.

[Bellhorn04]

If you had to assign a percent to each of the factors listed, what would they be?

 

1. Better health (We had a lot of players playing while hurt last year, especially Betts, Bogey & Moreland.)

2. Players getting closer to prime or with one more year of added experience (Beni, Betts, Bogey).

3. New coaching and manager.

4. JD added into the line-up.

5. JD added as mentor and coach.

6. Osmosis (Players just seem to do better when everyone else around them is doing better.)

7. Other (Please clarify)

 

Without putting a ton of thought into it, I'd go this way:

 

25% Better health

24% Age/prime year progression

23% New coaching & manager

22% JD's presence (I combined 4 & 5)

6% Osmosis

 

7. Extra motivation after a disappointing year? I think this might also be a thing. I read an article about Bogaerts working extra hard this offseason to add some muscle.

[SoxHop]

There have been stories throughout the year about other guys going to JD for hitting advice, working with him on their swings, etc. I'll try to track down some links later, maybe. Off the top of my head, I thought it's been said that Mookie talks to him almost daily about how he's doing, and that he's worked with Devers a lot as well.

 

Yea. I've heard this multiple times about JDM helping out the other players. I think I've read it and it's also been talked about on the broadcast.

 

He said that during his time in Detroit he was the person asking the elder players how to be a better batter, and now he has just kind of filling that role in Boston where other players come to him for assistance.

 

They use to talk about Pedey doing this a lot though also.

[Kimmi]

The guy who I think has been helped the most is Bogaerts. He did have injuries last year but this year he is more aggressive and trying to use the power he has had but not really used. I credit Cora with that change by instructing him to be more aggressive on strikes early and asking him to try to pull more balls. Maybe JDM has also helped him but to me it was Cora who set the tone.

 

Cora absolutely set the tone. Every guy in our line up has seen an increase this year over last year in his 'in zone swing' percentage, which means they are swinging at more strikes.

[Kimmi]

That's probably a better question to ask with a follow up of, "How much more have they improved from 2017, because of JD?" (if any)

 

Some seem to think it is the "Papi effect." I'm not sure Papi had hitters emulating him or his style, or that he helped others in a hitting coach way all that much (more, less or the same as JD?) Some felt his "protection was the main reason others did better, and his drop off after losing Manny added some evidence to this claim (although JBay did pretty darn well for a year and a half.)

 

It's hard to assign percentages to all the factors involved in the turn around of almost all our players not named Vazquez. I was positive most would have better seasons before we even signed JD. These are probably the biggest factors in my view (not in any order of influence:

 

1. Better health (We had a lot of players playing while hurt last year, especially Betts, Bogey & Moreland.)

2. Players getting closer to prime or with one more year of added experience (Beni, Betts, Bogey).

3. New coaching and manager.

4. JD added into the line-up.

5. JD added as mentor and coach.

6. Osmosis (Players just seem to do better when everyone else around them is doing better.)

7. Voodoo magic (Just kidding.)

 

Personally, I think the majority of the improvement in the other batters would have been there even without JD. Between Cora encouraging a more aggressive approach, recovery from injury, and good old plain regression, the improvement really shouldn't be a surprise.

[Kimmi]

To me that's an entirely different question.

 

I suspect the improvement is a combination of a bunch of factors.

 

I'm quite sure a clear measurement of these factors is impossible.

 

But that won't stop us from arguing about them all season.

 

Of course it is a combination of factors. The only thing I'm arguing about is whether Cora or JD had more influence.

[Kimmi]

If you had to assign a percent to each of the factors listed, what would they be?

 

1. Better health (We had a lot of players playing while hurt last year, especially Betts, Bogey & Moreland.)

2. Players getting closer to prime or with one more year of added experience (Beni, Betts, Bogey).

3. New coaching and manager.

4. JD added into the line-up.

5. JD added as mentor and coach.

6. Osmosis (Players just seem to do better when everyone else around them is doing better.)

7. Other (Please clarify)

 

Without putting a ton of thought into it, I'd go this way:

 

25% Better health

24% Age/prime year progression

23% New coaching & manager

22% JD's presence (I combined 4 & 5)

6% Osmosis

 

Sounds reasonable to me.