A Realistic View at 2018: Part II

[S5Dewey]

We were talking about how tanking seems to be better rewarded.

 

It strikes me that this proves the old adage of 'be careful what you wish for because you might get it'.

 

MLB has been trying to build "parity" (a/k/a "We need to stop the same teams from winning all the time") for years. That's why they instituted Revenue Sharing and the Luxury Tax. Now the owners have figured out that they can intentionally 'tank' for a few years and by doing so they can not only get RS money while losing they can also receive the draft picks to help themselves reload.

 

Wherever there's a system there's going to be someone who's trying to beat it.

[Bellhorn04]

It strikes me that this proves the old adage of 'be careful what you wish for because you might get it'.

 

MLB has been trying to build "parity" (a/k/a "We need to stop the same teams from winning all the time") for years. That's why they instituted Revenue Sharing and the Luxury Tax. Now the owners have figured out that they can intentionally 'tank' for a few years and by doing so they can not only get RS money while losing they can also receive the draft picks to help themselves reload.

 

Wherever there's a system there's going to be someone who's trying to beat it.

 

Agreed.

 

The parity thing was going pretty well for a while there. But things have abruptly shifted.

 

The last CBA appears to have been a lousy one. Problem is, it's in effect until 2021.

[S5Dewey]

Agreed.

 

The parity thing was going pretty well for a while there. But things have abruptly shifted.

 

The last CBA appears to have been a lousy one. Problem is, it's in effect until 2021.

 

Back when I was just S5 and you were Hfx I posted that there are two ways to make money in MLB - by winning big and by losing big. Teams that win big draw crowds and get big TV contracts and teams that lose big get Revenue Sharing. Everybody makes money and nobody loses except the fans of the losing teams. Now teams have carried that to an art form by intentionally losing.

 

At the end of the day this is only making things worse because the teams who are setting themselves up to lose are selling/trading off their best talent (Hear me, Marlins?) to the traditionally stronger teams, making the disparity between the good teams and the bad teams even larger. The best teams will always be the best teams because they have the revenue stream to support it. They may not always win the WS but over the span of a decade the good teams will remain good and the other teams will be... average with highs and lows.

 

MLB has been wanting enforced mediocrity and they may get it - except for those few teams having the revenue stream to remain competitive year after year. It'll be interesting to see how the MLB Brain Trust tweaks their system next to try to take away the advantage the historically better teams have.

[notin]

Has tanking now become the Holy Grail of pro-sports? Am I really seeing discussion of a first place team getting rid of starting pitchers and an ace closer for prospects? Or have I missed several onion-like layers of irony here?

 

Building a winner is tough and expensive. Tearing a team down is cheap and it takes long enough to disprove the "building a future winner" mantra that many fans buy into it.

 

Tanking rarely works from a winning perspective, and usually depends on two factors, only one of which the team can control. Timing of a tear down to coincide with getting worthwhile players is tough to control. The other factor is, to make this strategy work, you have to have an NBA team.

 

Unless the goal all along was to go cheap. Then it always works...

[moonslav59]

The solution is probably to let teams that can't stay competitive due to the lack of revenue fold, but that will not happen.

 

I do think some teams should move, but instead they get public funded new stadiums that all but guarantee they will stay in a miserable market for decades.

 

[moonslav59]

Sox OPS

 

1.252 Betts

1.060 Moreland

1.015 JMart

.949 Bogey

.920 Holt

.798 HRam

.766 Devers

.728 Beni

.625 Nunez

.535 JBJ

.528 Lin

.491 Vaz

.450 Swihart

.445 Leon

[bkzwhitestrican]

They should have a salary floor. I'm sure players would be in favor of this as well.

 

Something like all teams needs to have at least a $100M annual payroll averaged over a 3 year period.

[Nick]

We were talking about how tanking seems to be better rewarded. Nobody is calling for the Sox to deal Pom and Kimbrel

 

At some point, fans will get wised to that approach and tell the home team "call me when the upgrade is complete".

 

What's in it for the White Sox fan this year? (as an example)

[moonslav59]

At some point, fans will get wised to that approach and tell the home team "call me when the upgrade is complete".

 

What's in it for the White Sox fan this year? (as an example)

 

Well, some fans just enjoy watching baseball, winning or otherwise. Obviously, the teams that suck every year still draw thousands of fans and TV viewers, but I do think if your home team is highly competitive once every 5 years or so, it's easier to stay a fan through tough times.

[Emp9]

The solution is probably to let teams that can't stay competitive due to the lack of revenue fold, but that will not happen.

 

I do think some teams should move, but instead they get public funded new stadiums that all but guarantee they will stay in a miserable market for decades.

 

 

Those two Florida teams need to f***ing go and that’s been evident since the start. Theres plenty of cities, even in much colder climates that are more deserving of a MLB franchise.

[mvp 78]

We were talking about how tanking seems to be better rewarded. Nobody is calling for the Sox to deal Pom and Kimbrel

 

I'm pro-dealing Pomeranz. I'm pro re-signing Kimbrel.

[moonslav59]

Those two Florida teams need to f***ing go and that’s been evident since the start. Theres plenty of cities, even in much colder climates that are more deserving of a MLB franchise.

 

I've believed and said the same for years, but now Miami has a new stadium and TB, I think, is about to get one. The fans will still not come.

 

Move a team to North Carolina and another to California, Buffalo or Indy.

[Emp9]

They should have a salary floor. I'm sure players would be in favor of this as well.

 

Something like all teams needs to have at least a $100M annual payroll averaged over a 3 year period.

 

Yes. Agreed. I’m not sure what the exact payroll Floor figure should be but there needs to be something.

[mvp 78]

Those two Florida teams need to f***ing go and that’s been evident since the start. Theres plenty of cities, even in much colder climates that are more deserving of a MLB franchise.

 

Tampa has good viewership though. I'm not sure if they can sustain a live audience, but they do ok for what they are.

 

It wasn't that long ago that people wanted the Twins and Brewers to be eliminated.

 

I'm also not sure there are really any other cities that need a team.

[mvp 78]

I've believed and said the same for years, but now Miami has a new stadium and TB, I think, is about to get one. The fans will still not come.

 

Move a team to North Carolina and another to California, Buffalo or Indy.

 

Miami got a new stadium and it didn't help. Not sure that team can move after all the money Miami put into that stadium.

 

The Rays have strong tv ratings and a s***** park in a s***** location. MLB needs to at least see if a new venue can fix things.

 

What other city in CA needs a team? I can't think of one large enough. Do we really need MORE teams in the midwest? Probably not. Buffalo? Buffalo is a small town and I'm not sure there's enough of a population to keep a baseball team afloat. They do well with hockey because there isn't anything else to do in the winter in that hellscape.

[notin]

We were talking about how tanking seems to be better rewarded. Nobody is calling for the Sox to deal Pom and Kimbrel

 

All of the "tanking" talk this past off-season was thrown around by agents and the Player's Association because the free agent salaries weren't what they were expecting. But teams have gone through rebuilding programs every off-season without this much attention drawn to it. Salaries were lower because teams starting wising up to the poor business decisions in giving 30+ year old player six and seven year deals at outlandish money. The taking talk was nothing but a lot of noise and negative PR directed at the owners and their sudden and unexpected fiscal responsibility. ...

Edited May 7, 2018 by notin

[mvp 78]

The gall of the Marlins to currently having the 7th worst record in MLB and following MLB rules...

 

Reminder: it's not the team's fault, it's the fault of the MLBPA and the s***** contract they bargained.

[Slasher9]

By the end of the year, the advantage will be significantly in our corner, I promise you that. .

describe "significantly". sounds like a bet to me.....

[a700hitter]

Miami got a new stadium and it didn't help. Not sure that team can move after all the money Miami put into that stadium.

 

The Rays have strong tv ratings and a s***** park in a s***** location. MLB needs to at least see if a new venue can fix things.

 

What other city in CA needs a team? I can't think of one large enough. Do we really need MORE teams in the midwest? Probably not. Buffalo? Buffalo is a small town and I'm not sure there's enough of a population to keep a baseball team afloat. They do well with hockey because there isn't anything else to do in the winter in that hellscape.

The New Miami ballpark was built in a bad part of town. Their few fans from Joe Robbie did not make the move to the new stadium. The location of the new ballpark was a very poor decision.

[Bellhorn04]

All of the "tanking" talk this past off-season was thrown around by agents and the Player's Association because the free agent salaries weren't what they were expecting. But teams have gone through rebuilding programs every off-season without this much attention drawn to it. Salaries were lower because teams starting wising up to the poor business decisions in giving 30+ year old player six and seven year deals at outlandish money. The taking talk was nothing but a lot of noise and negative PR directed at the owners and their sudden and unexpected fiscal responsibility. ...

 

I thought a lot of the talk also had to do with back to back World Series champs who tanked their way to the top...

[Bellhorn04]

The gall of the Marlins to currently having the 7th worst record in MLB and following MLB rules...

 

Reminder: it's not the team's fault, it's the fault of the MLBPA and the s***** contract they bargained.

 

Now why do you say the Marlins fire sale is attributable to the MLPBA?

 

The same franchise also had a fire sale about 20 years earlier.

[Emp9]

I've believed and said the same for years, but now Miami has a new stadium and TB, I think, is about to get one. The fans will still not come.

 

Move a team to North Carolina and another to California, Buffalo or Indy.

 

Montreal, Albany, Columbus (Ohio), Newark, off the top of my head. Hawaii, New Mexico, ahem ... Mexico lol

 

Jeter’s funny. I read an article about how he thinks HIS plan is so different and how it’s going to work just give it time.

[Emp9]

Tampa has good viewership though. I'm not sure if they can sustain a live audience, but they do ok for what they are.

 

It wasn't that long ago that people wanted the Twins and Brewers to be eliminated.

 

I'm also not sure there are really any other cities that need a team.

 

My position isn’t about cities “needing” a team. It’s about cities that would still do better than either Florida team, need or no need.

[OH FOY]

So far this season, Sox are hitting .285 against RHP, and .228 against LHP.

[oldtimer]

So far this season, Sox are hitting .285 against RHP, and .228 against LHP.

 

Hard to draw conclusions about that since our lineup varies so much from day to day.

[harmony]

Montreal, Albany, Columbus (Ohio), Newark, off the top of my head. Hawaii, New Mexico, ahem ... Mexico lol

 

Jeter’s funny. I read an article about how he thinks HIS plan is so different and how it’s going to work just give it time.

A Portland group plans to make a bid for an MLB club:

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/maurybrown/2018/04/18/group-makes-offers-for-property-to-build-mlb-ballpark-in-portland-now-comes-the-tricky-part/#7af729018182

 

This Portland resident has doubts.

[jacksonianmarch]

I absolutely think Portland could snag a Floridian baseball team. I also think Vegas can snag one. There’s a real change the Rays will have to change their name after moving to the cloudiest city in America.

 

I think MLB’s push into Florida was ill conceived. Floridians that have time to watch games are retired from elsewhere, so there isn’t a draw to the local team. The born and bred locals have been going to spring training for a century now, so the teams ST home closest to these locals become the team’s they rooted for. Florida will never be able to be successful with a baseball club because of this. In the next 20 years, I expect both Floridian teams to move on

[Emp9]

Portland & Las Vegas are two more good ones. I think every regular poster on here can name at least 5 cities that MLB would be better served than Florida.

[Emp9]

I absolutely think Portland could snag a Floridian baseball team. I also think Vegas can snag one. There’s a real change the Rays will have to change their name after moving to the cloudiest city in America.

 

I think MLB’s push into Florida was ill conceived. Floridians that have time to watch games are retired from elsewhere, so there isn’t a draw to the local team. The born and bred locals have been going to spring training for a century now, so the teams ST home closest to these locals become the team’s they rooted for. Florida will never be able to be successful with a baseball club because of this. In the next 20 years, I expect both Floridian teams to move on

 

Not to mention the snow-birds that go back north for the spring, summer, and fall.

[moonslav59]

Largest metro areas without a MLB team (rank)

 

13. Riverside/San Bernardino/Ontario CA

22. Charlotte/Concord/Gastonia NC

24. San Antonio

25. Portland/Vancouver, WA

27. Sacremento, CA

28 Las Vegas, NV

31. Austin/Round Rock, TX

32. Columbus, OH

34. Inianapoli, IN

35. San Jose, CA

36. Nashville, TN

37. Va Beach/Norfolk VA-NC

38. Providence RI

41. OKC

42. Memphis

43. Raliegh, NC