A Realistic View at 2018: Part II

[Fan_since_Boggs]

I would be willing to trade Pomeranz for a rental, but I would want more if Bradley is included. Who cares if you trade one rental for another. In either scenario, the Red Sox aren't giving up a long term piece.

[moonslav59]

I would be willing to trade Pomeranz for a rental, but I would want more if Bradley is included. Who cares if you trade one rental for another. In either scenario, the Red Sox aren't giving up a long term piece.

 

Agreed: Pom for prospects to flip for Machado would be great, but we'd have to add Groome and maybe more.

[moonslav59]

Since both Pom and Kimbrel are FAs after this year, what about trading both for prospects to flip for Machado & Bleier?

[MADSTORK]

I don't even know if I'd give them the edge in the BP.

 

If we stay healthy and perform to reasonable expectations, we're every bit as good as them.

 

And just wait until CC and his 4.21 SIERA and .211 BABIP comes back to earth.

 

 

Since when do the stars align?

Starting Pitching will be the downfall of Dombrowski and Ownership. ERod is inconsistent as they come and injury prone. Pomeranz will not survive with only two pitches which limits your advantage as a Pitcher. Price does not have the mental makeup to pitch in Boston and at the moment is the first "big money bust" free agent under the DD watch.

 

Bullpen outside of Kimbrel is inconsistent but I don't blame DD here. I blame DD for not re-vamping the Minor League Development system by ridding themselves of Baird and Crockett who have yet to produce any pitching, starting or relieving of substance.

DD missed the boat last year by not acquiring Verlander. Again, thanks to prior Free Agent bust acquisitions in Sandoval Ramirez Rusney by another GM the Organization was taxed out of acquiring an elite Pitcher.

 

When the Yanks make a push in next years free agent pool for Star players, You know where DD will be?

[Station 13]

Wondering who is killing the ball? Mookie of course

 

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/statcast_leaderboard

[OH FOY]

4 hits, 5 Runs by the Yanks, that's hard to do with no HRS.

[Maxbialystock]

A note to all the JBJ fans on this thread. Tonight Cora went with Moreland at 1b, HanRam DH, JD in left, Beni in CF, and JBJ in reserve. My question is: how many of those Texas dingers, which drove in 4 runs, would JBJ have caught? My second is: how likely is it that JBJ would have gotten a 2 run dinger off lefty Hamel? The answers are of course none and almost impossible these days.

 

That's not a cheap shot. Because in the previous game thread there were several comments about what a huge difference JBJ made in that game with that one grab as if no one else on the planet could make it and as if the pitchers and other guys in the lineup were the supporting cast.

 

Editor's note: OK, I agree with others that I am beating a dead horse, especially when there is an entire thread devoted to him and it is 75 pages long.

Edited May 6, 2018 by Maxbialystock

[Maxbialystock]

Since when do the stars align?

Starting Pitching will be the downfall of Dombrowski and Ownership. ERod is inconsistent as they come and injury prone. Pomeranz will not survive with only two pitches which limits your advantage as a Pitcher. Price does not have the mental makeup to pitch in Boston and at the moment is the first "big money bust" free agent under the DD watch.

 

Bullpen outside of Kimbrel is inconsistent but I don't blame DD here. I blame DD for not re-vamping the Minor League Development system by ridding themselves of Baird and Crockett who have yet to produce any pitching, starting or relieving of substance.

DD missed the boat last year by not acquiring Verlander. Again, thanks to prior Free Agent bust acquisitions in Sandoval Ramirez Rusney by another GM the Organization was taxed out of acquiring an elite Pitcher.

 

When the Yanks make a push in next years free agent pool for Star players, You know where DD will be?

 

Or so you hope. I'm worried about the Sox rotation right now, but do not consider them a lost cause by any means. Price, I agree, is a huge question mark right now, but I think the speed of his fast ball is less important than his ability to use other pitchers. I don't like Pom, but he does in fact have a changeup as well as the curve and over-used fast ball, and he has been effective, especially last year. ERod right now looks pretty good to me despite those gopher balls last night. Backing them up is a pretty darn good long reliever, Velazquez. And backing them up is a bullpen that is starting to jell, to say nothing of a lineup that is way better than last year's.

 

Three games upcoming at Yankee Stadium: Pom/Price/Porcello vs. Severino/Tanaka/Sabathia. Right now I do give the Yankees the edge on starting pitching.

 

However, tomorrow is an off day for us, so Cora could skip Pom and have ERod pitch the third game. He also has Velazquez for long relief, but he can only use him once.

[Kimmi]

I would prefer a solid defender in CF who also could hit. I can dream. Say what you will, JBJ is gone after this year if his hitting miseries continue. Hard for a guy with the time and experience he has to suddenly become a hitter. He had his moments, if he could only remember what he did in his hot steaks.

 

I agree that he is probably gone after this season, but that's not a given. A lot can happen between now and then. Jackie's offense is an enigma, how he can look so good at times and look equally as bad at other times.

[bosoxmal]

As this season got under way in late March, I posted that the WS winner would be either the Red Sox or the Yankees. Division winners, etc, was just conversation. I can't remember a season so lop-sided in talent as this one.

[Kimmi]

Since when do the stars align?

Starting Pitching will be the downfall of Dombrowski and Ownership. ERod is inconsistent as they come and injury prone. Pomeranz will not survive with only two pitches which limits your advantage as a Pitcher. Price does not have the mental makeup to pitch in Boston and at the moment is the first "big money bust" free agent under the DD watch.

 

Bullpen outside of Kimbrel is inconsistent but I don't blame DD here. I blame DD for not re-vamping the Minor League Development system by ridding themselves of Baird and Crockett who have yet to produce any pitching, starting or relieving of substance.

DD missed the boat last year by not acquiring Verlander. Again, thanks to prior Free Agent bust acquisitions in Sandoval Ramirez Rusney by another GM the Organization was taxed out of acquiring an elite Pitcher.

 

When the Yanks make a push in next years free agent pool for Star players, You know where DD will be?

 

I don't expect everyone on the team to play at or above their levels of expectation. But we have a good team. A very good team. If we can get some relatively good fortune in terms of health and performance, we're every bit as good as the Yankees.

 

The way I look at it is this. The Yankees have gone on an absolute tear while we have scuffled at .500 ball, and they still haven't been able to catch us in record or in run differential. Ha!

[Kimmi]

4 hits, 5 Runs by the Yanks, that's hard to do with no HRS.

 

Luckiest team ever.

[Kimmi]

As this season got under way in late March, I posted that the WS winner would be either the Red Sox or the Yankees. Division winners, etc, was just conversation. I can't remember a season so lop-sided in talent as this one.

 

There does seem to be a larger gap than normal between the good teams and the bad teams.

[oldtimer]

There does seem to be a larger gap than normal between the good teams and the bad teams.

 

You would think a team like Baltimore, who has zero chance this year, would be looking to trade assets and get the best payback. Machado is their best and he is young and will want a huge contract. Frankly, while he would be a great asset for the Sox, it is hard to see us letting go of either Devers or Bogaerts. Someone else will probably go after him while we sit that one out.

[SoxHop]

There does seem to be a larger gap than normal between the good teams and the bad teams.

 

Since I live in Texas, and have mutiple Rangers friends, I know a little about their team. So lets take them as an example.

 

Last year they weren't a very good team. Managed to get lucky and won a ton of one run games that could have gone either way. So mid season the owners didn't feel they could do a mass sell off and prepare for the future. The thing was they knew Houston was young and way better than them and will be for a few years. They don't have mega bucks to aquire mega stars, so the next couple of years they are just going to tank and rebuild and I can't blame them. There's no sense right now to get into an arms race you can't win with the Astros and Angels.

[notin]

You would think a team like Baltimore, who has zero chance this year, would be looking to trade assets and get the best payback. Machado is their best and he is young and will want a huge contract. Frankly, while he would be a great asset for the Sox, it is hard to see us letting go of either Devers or Bogaerts. Someone else will probably go after him while we sit that one out.

 

I'm sure Baltimore would love to cash in on Machado this summer. But they will have an exorbitant asking price. Likely a difficult one for the Sox to afford. ..

[Larry Cook]

Let the Dodgers or the Yankees over spend on a rental.

 

We need to focus on getting our pitching up to par.

[notin]

Let the Dodgers or the Yankees over spend on a rental.

 

We need to focus on getting our pitching up to par.

 

Agreed.

 

The Sox aren't moving Devers off third, errors or not. Where would Machado fit on? At this point, I'll take one and a half seasons of Bogaerts over a half season of Machado. ..

[Nick]

Agreed.

 

The Sox aren't moving Devers off third, errors or not. Where would Machado fit on? At this point, I'll take one and a half seasons of Bogaerts over a half season of Machado. ..

 

I bet the Orioles fans would love to have E Rod now. Was that trade worth it for Baltimore?

 

Agree on Devers. He's 21. We have six years of team control. We finally have answer to our revolving 3B issue. Let it go.

[S5Dewey]

I'm sure Baltimore would love to cash in on Machado this summer. But they will have an exorbitant asking price. Likely a difficult one for the Sox to afford. ..

 

I was at a D-1 game yesterday and was chatting with an O's fan there. The Dodgers have shown a big interest in Machado but the O's want both Buehler and one of the other pitchers involved in the no-no and thus far that's a price the Dodgers haven't been willing to pay.

[jacksonianmarch]

I'm sure Baltimore would love to cash in on Machado this summer. But they will have an exorbitant asking price. Likely a difficult one for the Sox to afford. ..

 

And they have a prospect laden team with big pockets in need of a rental SS for this season. I think the Dodgers end up with him in the end, the question is, how much do they give up?

[harmony]

I was at a D-1 game yesterday and was chatting with an O's fan there. The Dodgers have shown a big interest in Machado but the O's want both Buehler and one of the other pitchers involved in the no-no and thus far that's a price the Dodgers haven't been willing to pay.

Next weekend I may go to the NCAA Division I match-up between the No. 2 and No. 3 teams in the country when Oregon State hosts Stanford. I will definitely watch Stanford entertain Washington State the following weekend.

[moonslav59]

Agreed.

 

The Sox aren't moving Devers off third, errors or not. Where would Machado fit on? At this point, I'll take one and a half seasons of Bogaerts over a half season of Machado. ..

 

I totally agree, we aren't moving Devers off 3B, but this could be how we might line things up, assuming we trade the prospects gotten by trading Pom and prospects for Machado.

 

1. Betts RF

2. Machado 3B

3. HRam/Moreland 1B

4. JMart LF

5. Bogey SS

6. Devers DH

7. Beni CF

8. Pedey/Nunez 2B

9. Vaz

 

 

[Kimmi]

You would think a team like Baltimore, who has zero chance this year, would be looking to trade assets and get the best payback. Machado is their best and he is young and will want a huge contract. Frankly, while he would be a great asset for the Sox, it is hard to see us letting go of either Devers or Bogaerts. Someone else will probably go after him while we sit that one out.

 

I am pretty confident that Machado will be traded before the deadline. The Os would be stupid not to get something for him before he walks in free agency.

 

I can't see the Sox going after Machado. We really don't have any use for him.

[Kimmi]

Since I live in Texas, and have mutiple Rangers friends, I know a little about their team. So lets take them as an example.

 

Last year they weren't a very good team. Managed to get lucky and won a ton of one run games that could have gone either way. So mid season the owners didn't feel they could do a mass sell off and prepare for the future. The thing was they knew Houston was young and way better than them and will be for a few years. They don't have mega bucks to aquire mega stars, so the next couple of years they are just going to tank and rebuild and I can't blame them. There's no sense right now to get into an arms race you can't win with the Astros and Angels.

 

I can understand that. It seems like there are more and more teams going that route.

[jacksonianmarch]

I can understand that. It seems like there are more and more teams going that route.

 

The problem right now is that current CBA rewards it significantly. Bigger draft pools are almost as important as draft order. Bigger INTL pools allow you to get multiple elite talents and allow you to return to dominance reliably. The Cubs and Astros are true models of this approach. Tank and reload. I think that might be changed a bit in the upcoming CBA. The following teams were actively trying to get better going into this year

 

AL

NYY

BOS

TOR

BAL

CLE

MIN

LAA

SEA

PHI

NYM

WAS

STL

CHC

MIL

ARI

SF

COL

LAD

HOU

 

18 of the teams in a 30 team league were actually trying to win. 2 teams out of the "bottom 12" may be good enough to contend in PIT and ATL, although I think both are pretenders for this season. 1 team that actually tried to upgrade their roster is already 17 games out for the division (BAL). We entered the year with 40% of the teams not looking to upgrade or worse, actively looking to tank. That's the most I have seen in recent memory. This clearly affected the FA market and that is going to set off alarm bells with the MLBPA.

[moonslav59]

The problem right now is that current CBA rewards it significantly. Bigger draft pools are almost as important as draft order. Bigger INTL pools allow you to get multiple elite talents and allow you to return to dominance reliably. The Cubs and Astros are true models of this approach. Tank and reload. I think that might be changed a bit in the upcoming CBA. The following teams were actively trying to get better going into this year

 

AL

NYY

BOS

TOR

BAL

CLE

MIN

LAA

SEA

PHI

NYM

WAS

STL

CHC

MIL

ARI

SF

COL

LAD

HOU

 

18 of the teams in a 30 team league were actually trying to win. 2 teams out of the "bottom 12" may be good enough to contend in PIT and ATL, although I think both are pretenders for this season. 1 team that actually tried to upgrade their roster is already 17 games out for the division (BAL). We entered the year with 40% of the teams not looking to upgrade or worse, actively looking to tank. That's the most I have seen in recent memory. This clearly affected the FA market and that is going to set off alarm bells with the MLBPA.

 

I think ATL tried to get better.

[oldtimer]

I am pretty confident that Machado will be traded before the deadline. The Os would be stupid not to get something for him before he walks in free agency.

 

I can't see the Sox going after Machado. We really don't have any use for him.

 

Yes, your right and his contract will be prohibitive for the Sox. Lets hope our front office does a smarter job of giving out new contracts in future.

[jad]

Has tanking now become the Holy Grail of pro-sports? Am I really seeing discussion of a first place team getting rid of starting pitchers and an ace closer for prospects? Or have I missed several onion-like layers of irony here?

[jacksonianmarch]

We were talking about how tanking seems to be better rewarded. Nobody is calling for the Sox to deal Pom and Kimbrel