Spring Training 2018 Thread

[mvp 78]

With a good spring could Swiharts bat have Leon in doubt to make the team?

 

Yes.

[mvp 78]

Do you not value how a catcher gets the most out of the staff?

 

These pitchers all did better with Leon than Vaz:

 

Pitcher w Leo / w Vaz

+.403 Hembree .609 (133) / 1.012 (135)

+.256 R Scott .476 (67) / .832 (74)

+.179 Fister .666 (255) / .845 (137)

+.126 M Barnes .592 (110) / .707 (174)

+.102 Joe Kelly .546 (98) / .648 (127)

+.066 CKimbrel .406 (97) / 472 (153)

+.008 Porcello .824 (709) / .832 (176)

 

These pitchers all did better with Vaz:

-.032 B. Boyer .834 (76) / .802 (98)

 

(Only pitchers with 60+ PAs with each catcher listed)

 

Some of the variances are huge, in fact, 5 of the 8 pitchers had an OPS against of 100+ better with Leon. Awihart is supposedly worse than Vaz with pitchers, so one can imagine the OPS differentials when compared to Leon.

 

Since OPS against for our staff involves all 9 hitters for the opposing team, Swihart might have to have an OPS of 1.800 to just bear even with a negative OPS differential of .200.

 

I'm keeping Leon. I'm trying to keep Swihart as well, so we can PH for Leon (.638 vs RHPs) and Vaz (vs RHPs .657)

 

 

 

If that is your argument, then why keep both Leon and Vaz? No reason to have two glove first catchers, especially if one sucks as much as you are saying.

[moonslav59]

If that is your argument, then why keep both Leon and Vaz? No reason to have two glove first catchers, especially if one sucks as much as you are saying.

 

Vaz may be a decent hitter going forward.

 

Swihart can play more than catcher, so it's not like we are going to keep 3 strict catcher only players on the 25 man roster.

 

I like the idea of being able to PH for Vaz or Leon late in games without worrying about a late inning catcher injury.

 

I'd like to see Swihart get some reps at 1B (another reason for hating the Moreland signing).

 

Swihart can also play LF- keeping Nunez at 2B and JD at DH.

 

If there's an injury to a catcher, we'll be glad we kept all 3. If there's an injury at 1B or DH, Swihart can get more PAs.

 

If an OF'er gets hurt, we could play Swihart in LF vs RHPs.

 

Keep all options open. Keep all 3 catchers as long as possible.

 

[moonslav59]

If that is your argument, then why keep both Leon and Vaz? No reason to have two glove first catchers, especially if one sucks as much as you are saying.

 

The worst part about Vaz & Leon is that they both hit RHPs better than lefties, although the Sox never seem to care about lefty-righty with our catchers. We've gone the personal caddy route for as long as I care to remember.

[cp176]

Ultimately there will be some decisions that have to be made. I have to think though that the potential for some poor infield play has to play a role in the front office thinking. Marrero looks like a very solid glove. Could have an impact on what happens to Holt as well as to Leon. It is a luxury to have 3 catchers two of whom are good but ...

[moonslav59]

Ultimately there will be some decisions that have to be made. I have to think though that the potential for some poor infield play has to play a role in the front office thinking. Marrero looks like a very solid glove. Could have an impact on what happens to Holt as well as to Leon. It is a luxury to have 3 catchers two of whom are good but ...

 

We also have depth issues in the OF, and with Nunez playing 2B and JD sucking on defense and trying to stay healthy, Swihart is a good option for LF.

 

He won't play 1B much, unless HRam or Moreland gets hurt.

 

I start the season with Moreland, leon, Swihart and Marrero on the bench. Holt has options, so he goes to AAA.

 

When Pedey returns, Nunez is not the IF depth, and although his defense is lacking, he's a better bench option than marrero.

 

I can see that when Pedey reeturns, we may want marrero over a catcher, but guys like Marrero are everywhere...and some have options.

[sk7326]

With a good spring could Swiharts bat have Leon in doubt to make the team?

 

Without a doubt. The injuries have hurt Swihart's trade value - but he is too talented for the Sox not to give him an honest go.

[mvp 78]

We also have depth issues in the OF, and with Nunez playing 2B and JD sucking on defense and trying to stay healthy, Swihart is a good option for LF.

 

He won't play 1B much, unless HRam or Moreland gets hurt.

 

I start the season with Moreland, leon, Swihart and Marrero on the bench. Holt has options, so he goes to AAA.

 

When Pedey returns, Nunez is not the IF depth, and although his defense is lacking, he's a better bench option than marrero.

 

I can see that when Pedey reeturns, we may want marrero over a catcher, but guys like Marrero are everywhere...and some have options.

 

Guys like Sandy Leon are everywhere.

[moonslav59]

Guys like Sandy Leon are everywhere.

 

Not ones who have already built a rapport with the staff that is second to none. It's not even close with Vaz. It will be a massive differential with Swihart.

 

Plus, Leon hits RHPs okay, so just avoid letting him hit lefties. Since we'll have 3 catchers, that will be easier to do now.

[mvp 78]

Not ones who have already built a rapport with the staff that is second to none. It's not even close with Vaz. It will be a massive differential with Swihart.

 

Plus, Leon hits RHPs okay, so just avoid letting him hit lefties. Since we'll have 3 catchers, that will be easier to do now.

 

Having 3 catchers just for shits and giggles is definitely a weird way to set up a 25 man roster.

[Emp9]

I wouldn’t mind carrying all three catchers. Swihart brings more to the table than just catching (PH, PR, LF, 1B, C). And it is the most physically brutal position. Swihart (plus a Lin or a Marrero) makes more sense than Holt. To me at least.

[mvp 78]

I wouldn’t mind carrying all three catchers. Swihart brings more to the table than just catching (PH, PR, LF, 1B, C). And it is the most physically brutal position. Swihart (plus a Lin or a Marrero) makes more sense than Holt. To me at least.

 

The problem is that once Pedey comes back, you won't have Lin or Marrero to kick around anymore. I don't see enough room on the active roster for them.

[moonslav59]

Having 3 catchers just for shits and giggles is definitely a weird way to set up a 25 man roster.

 

Swihart can play 1B and LF. I've said it a hundred times.

 

I'm fine with trading Swihart, but I'd like to keep all 3 around.

[FredLynn]

We also have depth issues in the OF, and with Nunez playing 2B and JD sucking on defense and trying to stay healthy, Swihart is a good option for LF.

 

He won't play 1B much, unless HRam or Moreland gets hurt.

 

I start the season with Moreland, leon, Swihart and Marrero on the bench. Holt has options, so he goes to AAA.

 

When Pedey returns, Nunez is not the IF depth, and although his defense is lacking, he's a better bench option than marrero.

 

I can see that when Pedey reeturns, we may want marrero over a catcher, but guys like Marrero are everywhere...and some have options.

 

Marrero is next to useless......a haircut that passes for an infielder. Keep Holt.....give Marrero his walking papers and hope the door doesn't hit him on the way out.

[Natick to NC]

Guys like Sandy Leon are everywhere.

 

This is sooooo overdue and true ....For the love of God give the job to Blake .

[moonslav59]

The problem is that once Pedey comes back, you won't have Lin or Marrero to kick around anymore. I don't see enough room on the active roster for them.

 

Lin has options and can be stashed in AAA. If Holt looks recovered, I'm fine with cutting Marrero loose when or before Pedey returns.

[Bellhorn04]

This is sooooo overdue and true ....For the love of God give the job to Blake .

 

Some of a catcher's value doesn't show up on the stat sheet though.

[Emp9]

The problem is that once Pedey comes back, you won't have Lin or Marrero to kick around anymore. I don't see enough room on the active roster for them.

 

So we’d lose Marrero eventually. I’m for burning that bridge when we get to it.

[notin]

The Sox don't need all four of Marrero, Lin, Holt and Nunez.

 

Lin will be optioned to Pawtucket. But I'm not sure how Marrero has lasted this long. ..

[Kimmi]

Yes.

 

Based off of spring training?

 

Weren't we just talking about the Jeff Bailey Award?

 

I really like Swihart and would keep him on the team, but DFAing or trading Leon based on Swihart's spring training would not be wise. There may come a time when Leon (or even Vaz) becomes expendable, but not this soon.

[Kimmi]

Vaz may be a decent hitter going forward.

 

Swihart can play more than catcher, so it's not like we are going to keep 3 strict catcher only players on the 25 man roster.

 

I like the idea of being able to PH for Vaz or Leon late in games without worrying about a late inning catcher injury.

 

I'd like to see Swihart get some reps at 1B (another reason for hating the Moreland signing).

 

Swihart can also play LF- keeping Nunez at 2B and JD at DH.

 

If there's an injury to a catcher, we'll be glad we kept all 3. If there's an injury at 1B or DH, Swihart can get more PAs.

 

If an OF'er gets hurt, we could play Swihart in LF vs RHPs.

 

Keep all options open. Keep all 3 catchers as long as possible.

 

 

I very much agree with your posts on the topic of our 3 catchers.

[Kimmi]

Having 3 catchers just for shits and giggles is definitely a weird way to set up a 25 man roster.

 

Not when that 3rd catcher can play other positions.

[Kimmi]

Some of a catcher's value doesn't show up on the stat sheet though.

 

!!!

[Kimmi]

The Sox don't need all four of Marrero, Lin, Holt and Nunez.

 

Lin will be optioned to Pawtucket. But I'm not sure how Marrero has lasted this long. ..

 

He stabilized our 3B position last season when the team sorely needed it.

[moonslav59]

He stabilized our 3B position last season when the team sorely needed it.

 

I'll be happier when he actually learns how to play the position, but he's worth watchin' and waitin'.

 

OOOps, I thought you were talking about Devers.

 

Edited February 28, 2018 by moonslav59

[FredLynn]

He stabilized our 3B position last season when the team sorely needed it.

 

He cannot hit the baseball. If it were the size of a beach ball he still could not hit it. His career stats are astoundingly awful: BA: .208, OPS: .568; OPS+: 49. I don't even think Pawtucket would want him. I don't care if his defense is the best in the league, which it is not, he defines the term "black hole", and for a team that struggles offensively-or at least did last year-he is as useless as an appendix.

[notin]

He cannot hit the baseball. If it were the size of a beach ball he still could not hit it. His career stats are astoundingly awful: BA: .208, OPS: .568; OPS+: 49. I don't even think Pawtucket would want him. I don't care if his defense is the best in the league, which it is not, he defines the term "black hole", and for a team that struggles offensively-or at least did last year-he is as useless as an appendix.

 

I don't go that far with him. But the bottom line is the Sox have better utility infielders.

 

And when you are the fifth best utility infielder (out of 5) and you have no options left, it's probably OK to part ways...

[cp176]

I don't go that far with him. But the bottom line is the Sox have better utility infielders.

 

And when you are the fifth best utility infielder (out of 5) and you have no options left, it's probably OK to part ways...

 

I have not studied the metrics - shame on me I guess - but I am pretty sure that when it comes to defense Marrero is currently better than any of the other options. Please do not take this as me advocating for Marreo. I just don't think that you can totally overlook his infield defense.

As for Swihart, I love the guy and truly think he will play a solid role for us this year, but it kind of seems to me that people here think that having him play positions at the ml level that he really has never played before will be simple for him. It won't be.

One last thing - trying to turn Lin into an infielder outfielder is ridiculous.

Our infield could profit from a good dose of defense.

[mvp 78]

Not when that 3rd catcher can play other positions.

 

We don’t know if he can really do that though.

[mvp 78]

He stabilized our 3B position last season when the team sorely needed it.

 

No he didn’t. Devers did.