Martinez vs Hosmer vs Santana

[Spudboy]

I told you no such thing.

 

Neither did I. I was not totally enamored of him but I was hoping he would be up no later than September.

[cp176]

The entire list of TalkSox posters excluding myself.

 

Not me - I thought he waited too long lol before bringing him up. Had to try to add the bat. I did think that he would field the position better than he did but hey Butterfield can straighten him out. Oh wait - what have I said- no Butterfield.

[Jack Flap]

Haha...I'm guilty. With Devers coming into the season as a 20-year-old who had put up a .779 OPS in High-A the previous year, I saw no reason to think we'd be seeing him in the majors before 2018 at the earliest. Obviously he accelerated that timetable in a huge way with his breakout in Portland, and never really let up. Extremely happy to have been wrong!

[Kimmi]

Yes he is.

 

However, Ill always be grateful that Cherrington was able to unload Beckett, Gonzalez and Crawford.

 

Then he screwed us with Ramirez, Sandoval and Castillo. If you don't know who he is, hes the guy making 10+ Million a year in AAA, and is not even on the 40 man roster.

 

Cherington is no Theo (but who is), but IMO, he at least had his priorities straight with regards to the farm system. Not to rehash the whole debate again, but there is no way signing Sandoval was Cherington's idea. He's possibly responsible for Hanley, and probably responsible for Castillo, but not for Sandoval.

 

Theo > Ben > Dave

[Kimmi]

Both promoted to the bigs by Delusional Dave.

 

I'm still taking my Devers victory lap from last year after everyone told me he wouldn't impact the big league roster. BRB.

 

And Betts was promoted to the bigs by Ben.

 

FTR, I never told you that Devers wouldn't impact the big league roster. I told you that it was a panic move to call him up when they did.

[a700hitter]

Cherington is no Theo (but who is), but IMO, he at least had his priorities straight with regards to the farm system. Not to rehash the whole debate again, but there is no way signing Sandoval was Cherington's idea. He's possibly responsible for Hanley, and probably responsible for Castillo, but not for Sandoval.

 

Theo > Ben > Dave

He's no Theo? That's an understatement. Ben doesn't even have the prospect of getting another GM position. He was a disaster. LOL!!

[Spudboy]

He's no Theo? That's an understatement. Ben doesn't even have the prospect of getting another GM position. He sucked donkey dicks without the Good Houskeeping Seal Of Approval. LOL!!

 

Cleaned that up for you.

[Hitch]

Winning the WS = disaster.

 

Sure. Sure it does.

[Kimmi]

Winning the WS = disaster.

 

Sure. Sure it does.

 

Not to mention that the moves that Dombrowski made were only possible thanks to the work that Ben put into the farm. It's easy to spend other people's prospects.

[a700hitter]

cleaned that up for you.

lol!!!

[Slasher9]

 

FTR, I never told you that Devers wouldn't impact the big league roster. I told you that it was a panic move to call him up when they did.

 

It was 100% a panic move

[notin]

Not to mention that the moves that Dombrowski made were only possible thanks to the work that Ben put into the farm. It's easy to spend other people's prospects.

 

Cherington certainly deserves the blame for Hanley, Sandoval and Castillo. I hate seeing the repeated Lucchino cop outs. Either Cherington made the moves or didn't have the faith from his superiors to handle the job.

 

But he also got rid of some equally bad deals, built a solid farm, and really his fault in the 2014 last place is somewhat suspect. He basically brought back a World Series champion roster, and that team didn't perform to the same level.

 

If status quo is a bad thing, people must hate Dombrowski so far this off-season. ...

[Spudboy]

It was 100% a panic move

 

Which in this case is synonymous with necessary.

[a700hitter]

Cherington certainly deserves the blame for Hanley, Sandoval and Castillo. I hate seeing the repeated Lucchino cop outs. Either Cherington made the moves or didn't have the faith from his superiors to handle the job.

 

But he also got rid of some equally bad deals, built a solid farm, and really his fault in the 2014 last place is somewhat suspect. He basically brought back a World Series champion roster, and that team didn't perform to the same level.

 

If status quo is a bad thing, people must hate Dombrowski so far this off-season. ...

Do you see anyone singing his praises for this Hot Stove season, except possibly for kimmi?

[Larry Cook]

Cherington certainly deserves the blame for Hanley, Sandoval and Castillo. I hate seeing the repeated Lucchino cop outs. Either Cherington made the moves or didn't have the faith from his superiors to handle the job.

 

But he also got rid of some equally bad deals, built a solid farm, and really his fault in the 2014 last place is somewhat suspect. He basically brought back a World Series champion roster, and that team didn't perform to the same level.

 

If status quo is a bad thing, people must hate Dombrowski so far this off-season. ...

 

Unless it comes out differently, I will always believe Ben signed the cheap guys that won a World Series in 2013. He caught lightening in a bottle.

 

He rode his winning streak into 2014 and we collapsed. Then Larry stepped in and became the puppet master.

 

Now we are stuck with Hanley and sandoval’s Contracts thanks to Larry.

[Kimmi]

Cherington certainly deserves the blame for Hanley, Sandoval and Castillo. I hate seeing the repeated Lucchino cop outs. Either Cherington made the moves or didn't have the faith from his superiors to handle the job.

 

But he also got rid of some equally bad deals, built a solid farm, and really his fault in the 2014 last place is somewhat suspect. He basically brought back a World Series champion roster, and that team didn't perform to the same level.

 

If status quo is a bad thing, people must hate Dombrowski so far this off-season. ...

 

I disagree about Cherington. He made his mistakes, but signing Sandoval makes no sense as a Cherington move. And I don't think that it was a lack of faith from his superiors. I think it's more of the business side of baseball flexing its muscles over the baseball ops side. They did the same thing with Theo, which is a large part of why Theo left.

[Kimmi]

Do you see anyone singing his praises for this Hot Stove season, except possibly for kimmi?

 

I give credit where credit is due, even though I'm not a Dombrowski fan. Signing Moreland on a short term deal is a good move. As I said when Moreland was signed last offseason, that's my kind of move.

 

Dombrowski also deserves credit for showing some patience this offseason, rather than grabbing his guy early and overpaying more than he has to.

[Bellhorn04]

I disagree about Cherington. He made his mistakes, but signing Sandoval makes no sense as a Cherington move. And I don't think that it was a lack of faith from his superiors. I think it's more of the business side of baseball flexing its muscles over the baseball ops side. They did the same thing with Theo, which is a large part of why Theo left.

 

Maybe Sandoval wasn't a Ben move. But none of the other moves between the 2014 deadline and 2015 Opening Day were very good either. If it was just Sandoval Ben might still be GM.

[Kimmi]

Maybe Sandoval wasn't a Ben move. But none of the other moves between the 2014 deadline and 2015 Opening Day were very good either. If it was just Sandoval Ben might still be GM.

 

Fair enough.

 

Not that I agree that he should have been fired.

[moonslav59]

Maybe Sandoval wasn't a Ben move. But none of the other moves between the 2014 deadline and 2015 Opening Day were very good either. If it was just Sandoval Ben might still be GM.

 

Well, if you count the 2014 deadline, I'd say the ERod trade was a plus.

 

Doubront for Marco Hernandez and Ranaudo for Robbie Ross were okay.

 

Every GM has a bad stretch of signings and trades. Ben's strength was clearly in building up the farm.

Only the Uehara deal was a standout in other areas.

 

I think Theo is the best MLB GM of alltime.Look at the signings and trades starting after the Nomar trade in 2004 all the way to his last day. That's a super long period of "meh". in that area only, plus the farm was not top 10 when he left either. (Note: I'm not trying to disparage the greatest of all time, but I think judging Ben so harshly on 3 signings that may or may not have been his ideas is going too far. Yes, all 3 were horrible, but that was not all he did for the team.

[mvp 78]

I disagree about Cherington. He made his mistakes, but signing Sandoval makes no sense as a Cherington move. And I don't think that it was a lack of faith from his superiors. I think it's more of the business side of baseball flexing its muscles over the baseball ops side. They did the same thing with Theo, which is a large part of why Theo left.

 

You can't separate the good moves from the bad moves. Ben and Theo should have put their foot down if they were against the bad moves. Neither have come out after the fact and said "I didn't want to do that." Theo just said he felt had to feed the monster and gave in to it.

[moonslav59]

Selling tickets plays into the choice-making.

 

It would be one thing to find out Ben was insisting on signing Scherzer instead of HRam & Pablo. It's another to find out he didn't want to spend big on any FA that winter, but he was told, he had to.

[mvp 78]

Selling tickets plays into the choice-making.

 

It would be one thing to find out Ben was insisting on signing Scherzer instead of HRam & Pablo. It's another to find out he didn't want to spend big on any FA that winter, but he was told, he had to.

 

Nobody thought Pablo or Hanley would be big draws except for the Sox FO. Maybe they though they'd sell enough panda hats?

[moonslav59]

Nobody thought Pablo or Hanley would be big draws except for the Sox FO. Maybe they though they'd sell enough panda hats?

 

I think it was more like... "We can spend this amount of money to improve our team..." (Not many FA signings worked out well that year. Certainly Scherzer would have been better. Who else was there? Nelson Cruz with all his "baggage"?

 

They decided to upgrade the offense and wait to upgrade the pitching the following year, when so many starters were going to be available, including the guy we signed- Price.

 

I hated the Pablo signing from the first minute.

 

I was okay with the HRam signing at the time.

 

I did think both signings would boost the offense more than it did. I did hope that maybe Papi's leadership skills would have an affect on Pablito.

 

What a disaster that winter was!

[a700hitter]

Nobody thought Pablo or Hanley would be big draws except for the Sox FO. Maybe they though they'd sell enough panda hats?

Did people think there would be a groundswell among fat slob fans who identified with that human donut? There was zero upside to that acquisition. He was in a free-fall against lefties for a few year and his fielding was average at his peak.

[mvp 78]

Did people think there would be a groundswell among fat slob fans who identified with that human donut? There was zero upside to that acquisition. He was in a free-fall against lefties for a few year and his fielding was average at his peak.

 

When I've looked into it, almost everyone on TS hated or didn't understand the Pablo signing.

[a700hitter]

I give credit where credit is due, even though I'm not a Dombrowski fan. Signing Moreland on a short term deal is a good move. As I said when Moreland was signed last offseason, that's my kind of move.

 

Dombrowski also deserves credit for showing some patience this offseason, rather than grabbing his guy early and overpaying more than he has to.

It is a terrible move. Moreland is a meh player, and it creates a logjam if we get the big bat that is really needed. If he signs J.D., Bradley probably has to go. J.D. can't DH because that will be the spot for the untradeable Hanley. I would have been in favor of Bradley going if it brought back Abreu, but that isn't going to happen now. i know that you think that our current crew will improve enough without adding a bat. I think you are dead wrong. Even if they improve, they will not improve enough to keep up with the Yankees who just added a huge piece with Stanton. It is a HR hitters game, and we don't have a bopper.

[a700hitter]

When I've looked into it, almost everyone on TS hated or didn't understand the Pablo signing.

Except for Benny the Boob, coffee boy.

[moonslav59]

Did people think there would be a groundswell among fat slob fans who identified with that human donut? There was zero upside to that acquisition. He was in a free-fall against lefties for a few year and his fielding was average at his peak.

 

Not from me, but I did hear a lot of talk about how great Pablo was in the clutch and how Papi taking him under his wing could bring us something special.

 

However, that was on that "other" website full of dummies and pretenders.

[moonslav59]

When I've looked into it, almost everyone on TS hated or didn't understand the Pablo signing.

 

What baffled me the most was that once I heard we signed HRam, I thought, "okay, we found our 3Bman." Then, shortly afterwards I heard of the Pablo signing and thought, "How awful and confusing."

 

I never boought into the LF conversion thing, but the "half his games in Fenway" mantra was heard often.