Pedroia undergoes microfracture surgery

[notin]

Sometimes I do because I'm not an automaton. Fangraphs will also say some players are worth $60M for a year. I'll politely disagree. The $ value per win is a metric that I don't enjoy much.

 

I hated that metric until it was explained to me that it was their value in free agent dollars that year. It does make more sense now, but it is still my least favorite feature on that site...

[S5Dewey]

The big difference being no one is using Betts on the DL to malign his character.

 

In the past, you have referred to Machado as a punk because of that slide, right? Or at least, that conclusion was influenced by that slide. Do you think he was intentionally trying to spike Pedroia? I do believe he was trying to break up a double play, but that isn't the same thing. I also saw Machado try to help Pedroia up after taking him down, which would be a little inconsistent with the actions of a player who intentionally tried to injure another player.

 

But what do my lying eyes know?

 

Are you saying that the fact that he was trying to break up a double play means that his spiking Pedey couldn't have been intentional?

[mvp 78]

I hated that metric until it was explained to me that it was their value in free agent dollars that year. It does make more sense now, but it is still my least favorite feature on that site...

 

Value in FA dollars annually?

[Bellhorn04]

Sometimes I do because I'm not an automaton. Fangraphs will also say some players are worth $60M for a year. I'll politely disagree. The $ value per win is a metric that I don't enjoy much.

 

Well, OK, let's just look at the FWAR's:

 

2014 3.8

2015 2.3

2017 1.9

 

Total 8.0 average 2.67

 

So what's your statement that he wasn't worth his money in those years based on? What do you calculate his value for those years as?

[notin]

Value in FA dollars annually?

 

I think what it means is what the free agents were signing for and achieving with WAR, and using that valuation for non-free agents.

 

It makes more sense than making it straight salary, but it still isn't a good feature...

[notin]

Are you saying that the fact that he was trying to break up a double play means that his spiking Pedey couldn't have been intentional?

 

No, but I am saying that had it been intentional, he very likely wouldn't have tried to help Pedroia up afterwards.

[S5Dewey]

No, but I am saying that had it been intentional, he very likely wouldn't have tried to help Pedroia up afterwards.

 

That's where we disagree. I do believe he was trying to break up the DP and if Pedey had to be the "collateral damage" the so be it. IMO the replay clearly shows his foot outside the bag and (intentionally?) heading for Pedey's leg.

As I said at the time I think once the play was over MM had an "Oh s***" moment and tried to mitigate his damage by helping Pedey up.

 

However, that's only a part of the issue. The greater issue (IMO) is whether there was a negative reaction from the clubhouse over "It's not me, it's them." Having played the game and knowing how players can look out for one another I find it incomprehensible that those players who "had Pedey's back" in that fracas weren't offended by his comment. I also believe that's part of what Bogaerts was referring to when he said that this year's clubhouse doesn't have the tension last year's had. (and that's not a quote but a good characterization of what XBo said).

[Spudboy]

The big difference being no one is using Betts on the DL to malign his character.

 

In the past, you have referred to Machado as a punk because of that slide, right? Or at least, that conclusion was influenced by that slide. Do you think he was intentionally trying to spike Pedroia? I do believe he was trying to break up a double play, but that isn't the same thing. I also saw Machado try to help Pedroia up after taking him down, which would be a little inconsistent with the actions of a player who intentionally tried to injure another player.

 

But what do my lying eyes know?

 

I'll answer.

 

I have viewed Macholo as a punk all along. I don't like his demeanor. Just my opinion.

 

No, I do not believe Macholo intended to hurt Pedroia. It was a hard slide intended to break up the play. Maybe he slid late and Perdroia got clipped.

 

In any case Macholo is a very good player who I Just have no taste for.

[notin]

That's where we disagree. I do believe he was trying to break up the DP and if Pedey had to be the "collateral damage" the so be it. IMO the replay clearly shows his foot outside the bag and (intentionally?) heading for Pedey's leg.

As I said at the time I think once the play was over MM had an "Oh s***" moment and tried to mitigate his damage by helping Pedey up.

 

However, that's only a part of the issue. The greater issue (IMO) is whether there was a negative reaction from the clubhouse over "It's not me, it's them." Having played the game and knowing how players can look out for one another I find it incomprehensible that those players who "had Pedey's back" in that fracas weren't offended by his comment. I also believe that's part of what Bogaerts was referring to when he said that this year's clubhouse doesn't have the tension last year's had. (and that's not a quote but a good characterization of what XBo said).

 

I think it gets interpreted differnetly.

 

While your version and mine of Machado's slide are similar, I think Pedroia simply wanted to stop the headhunting, especially if he felt Machado thought he put Barnes up to it. If that was the case, that makes Pedroia the target for Baltimore pitchers. A lot of fans might not like it, but stopping the headhunting is a good thing.

 

Machado's slide wasn't that different - and actually less egregious - than many other slides he went into 2B with. We've all seen him take out slide into Pedroia the previous season while missing the bag but able to grab it with his passing arm (which was legal at the time).

 

Certainly he wanted to collide with Pedroia; it's part of breaking up the double play. I don't think the spikes were necessarily intentional, and I do think he tried to help Pedroia up because, as a former shortstop, he knows what it's like to be on that side of the play as well.

 

As for Bogaerts, he could have been referring to anything. There are so many incidents in clubhouses and so many conflicting personalities. It's a scene of 25 guys with massive egos who don't all like each other and never will, and a coaching staff trying to keep all that in check. Tension could come from a multitude of places. The worst tension usually comes from a consistent source, not a singular event. I'd think Bogaerts was referring to some other far more drastic change

 

It's actually even hard for me to believe the team was even united against Pedroia after that comment. Much like on this board, the players themselves probably took it differently. Maybe a few were offended and maybe a bunch of others agreed with Pedroia. But this type of reaction can happen with any comment, and is probably more commonplace than most of use realize. I would be VERY surprised if Pedroia's comment had that much of a lingering effect, especially since the Sox pitchers continued to throw at Machado a couple more times that year...

 

This strikes me, much like chicken and beer, as another of those incidents that was taken far more seriously by fans outside the locker room than by those in it...

[S5Dewey]

Thanks. We know where each other stands and I'm good with it.

 

That's the great thing about this country. We get to have our own opinions and express them, up to and including whether it's appropriate to kneel for the National Anthem. :-)

[Slasher9]

2 duck boat parades though right?

 

yes. im not sure either can be tied directly to pedrioa though. but i never ever questioned his ability as a baseball player. i questioned his being an "awesome teammate". if the definition of "awesome teammate" is simply parades - he is an "awesome teammate".....

[Slasher9]

Really?

 

So it's an impossible situation that Pedroia simply didn't want the entire situation to escalate? And that he figured he would be the victim of the next retaliatory beaning?

if that is the case - then he is a baby dick bitch. not a Dirt Dog as some claim he is.

selling out your entire team to save yourself from getting plunked in the ass is a bitch move. if what you say is true then i hate pedroia even more.

[notin]

if that is the case - then he is a baby dick bitch. not a Dirt Dog as some claim he is.

selling out your entire team to save yourself from getting plunked in the ass is a bitch move. if what you say is true then i hate pedroia even more.

 

That's not "sell[ing] out his entire team." That's trying to prevent the whole ting from escalating. He was the only one in the entire incident to wind up getting hurt, after all.

 

What if he simply did not want anyone else to get hit? If the Orioles' decided to retaliate by beaning Betts, who has absolutely murdered their pitching, is Pedroia still on your s*** list?

[Slasher9]

That's not "sell[ing] out his entire team." That's trying to prevent the whole ting from escalating. He was the only one in the entire incident to wind up getting hurt, after all.

 

What if he simply did not want anyone else to get hit? If the Orioles' decided to retaliate by beaning Betts, who has absolutely murdered their pitching, is Pedroia still on your s*** list?

 

Yes.

Only pedroia knows why he screamed that across the diamond.

But I guarantee you every player in that clubhouse feels the same way I do.

[mvp 78]

Well, OK, let's just look at the FWAR's:

 

2014 3.8

2015 2.3

2017 1.9

 

Total 8.0 average 2.67

 

So what's your statement that he wasn't worth his money in those years based on? What do you calculate his value for those years as?

 

He was ok in 2014, but that's when his slide into mediocrity started. He's overpaid as a 2 win player for 2015 and 2017 IMO.

[mvp 78]

Plus, he is a negative oWAR player. May as well just have a AAAA guy like Deven Marrero play 2b for you at that point.

[sk7326]

Pedroia is a guy who has always given it 100% on the field. 2 championship seasons. Good O, total hustle and amazing defense. A few questionable moments shouldn't tear all that down.

 

He's one of the ten greatest position players in team history. He had a bad year in 2014, but otherwise his wRC+ has been ridiculously consistent. His issues have been entirely health related. And that is a reason to worry about his future. But when he has been healthy, he has been almost metronome-like.

 

He's no longer the best position player in the AL (his MVP was entirely warranted). But he's a clear 2-3 win player which is pretty good for his salary. Now with his knees I cannot bet on seeing that again, which is too bad.

[mvp 78]

@EvanDrellich

 

Dustin Pedroia on his way back from Boston. Red Sox expect to know more about his situation later today. Cora said Pedroia had a full work-up.

 

Mookie Betts doing tee work today. They’ll see how he comes out of that.

[Natick to NC]

Steve Philips is kindof a tool like me but he kinda let out Boston will be in the market for a second baseman within a week and plan on signing one at the break At latest .

[Kimmi]

Pedroia is a guy who has always given it 100% on the field. 2 championship seasons. Good O, total hustle and amazing defense. A few questionable moments shouldn't tear all that down.

 

Thank you.

 

And honestly, have you ever heard one of his teammates, past or present, say anything bad about him? I can understand why current teammates wouldn't want to throw him under the bus, but his former teammates all speak highly of him as well. If David Ross says that Pedroia is a leader and a great teammate, that's good enough for me.

[Kimmi]

He's one of the ten greatest position players in team history. He had a bad year in 2014, but otherwise his wRC+ has been ridiculously consistent. His issues have been entirely health related. And that is a reason to worry about his future. But when he has been healthy, he has been almost metronome-like.

 

He's no longer the best position player in the AL (his MVP was entirely warranted). But he's a clear 2-3 win player which is pretty good for his salary. Now with his knees I cannot bet on seeing that again, which is too bad.

 

Well said sk.

[notin]

Yes.

Only pedroia knows why he screamed that across the diamond.

But I guarantee you every player in that clubhouse feels the same way I do.

 

I absolutely wouldn't agree. Some players? Sure. But in no way did they all agree. Some might have even agreed with Pedroia and, unlike you, were happy he saved Betts from a season-ending beaning

[Spudboy]

@EvanDrellich

 

Dustin Pedroia on his way back from Boston. Red Sox expect to know more about his situation later today. Cora said Pedroia had a full work-up.

 

Mookie Betts doing tee work today. They’ll see how he comes out of that.

 

This is good news.

[Slasher9]

I absolutely wouldn't agree. Some players? Sure. But in no way did they all agree. Some might have even agreed with Pedroia and, unlike you, were happy he saved Betts from a season-ending beaning

 

I’m not sure season ending beaning is a real thing. Players get drilled all the time. A season ending HBP has to be 0.001%

Has it happened? Sure. Giancarlo should have patented the C Flap. But the odds of betts getting drilled in retaliation and ending up with a season ending injury are less than a Red Sox 2bman spending the rest of his contract on the bench from a takeout slide....

[a700hitter]

There is no other interpretation of Pedroia’s “It’s them. it’s not me” moment. He threw his entire team and manager under the bus. The announcers and NESN commentators were surprised by it and they wondered how it played in the clubhouse. No one stepped up to defend him from the players to the coaches and manager. That speaks volumes. It stayed “in house” meaning they were unhappy with Pedey and chose not to go public with it. It was a major dick move and to pretend otherwise, because there is no signed affidavit or other incontrovertible proof is venturing into idiocy. Add to that, Butterfield’s clear allusion to the fact that Pedey gets more latitude than others means it was viewed as a mistake by Pedroia. Edited June 6, 2018 by a700hitter

[Yaz Fan Since 67]

if that is the case - then he is a baby dick bitch. not a Dirt Dog as some claim he is.

selling out your entire team to save yourself from getting plunked in the ass is a bitch move. if what you say is true then i hate pedroia even more.

 

I saw it this way. Pedroia and Machado are friends. Machado simply was trying to break up the double play and showed immediate concern for his friend after the play. When Machado was thrown at he looked at his buddy and said "WTF Man??? I wasn't trying to hurt you" . Peddy understood this and was simply explaining he had nothing to do with his teammate throwing at his good friend, which IMO has always been a stupid ass thing for a pitcher to do. I have zero problem with either player's behavior.

Edited June 6, 2018 by Yaz Fan Since '67

[S5Dewey]

There is no other interpretation of Pedroia’s “It’s them. it’s not me” moment. He threw his entire team and manager under the bus. The announcers and NESN commentators were surprised by it and they wondered how it played in the clubhouse. No one stepped up to defend him from the players to the coaches and manager. That speaks volumes. It stayed “in house” meaning they were unhappy with Pedey and chose not to go public with it. It was a major dick move and to pretend otherwise, because there is no signed affidavit or other incontrovertible proof is venturing into idiocy. Add to that, Butterfield’s clear allusion to the fact that Pedey gets more latitude than others means it was viewed as a mistake by Pedroia.

 

BOOM! The whole story in one succinct paragraph!

[jacksonianmarch]

You can be friends off the field, but on the field you back your brothers in the uniform over friends on the other side. Pedroia violated the code. If he was on one of my teams back in the day, he’d have gotten his ass kicked. You never show up your brothers and when they defend you, you back them up 100%

[jacksonianmarch]

Also, Cora giving an update today rather than reassuring the masses the moment he heard something makes it sound ominous. It might not be, but the Sox don’t usually keep their fans in suspense over good news. I wonder if there’s another procedure in the offing

[Bellhorn04]

I just think there's a whole other side to the story, which is that Farrell bungled the whole thing. There's a right way and a wrong way to retaliate. The Sox did it the right way this year against the Yanks. They did it quickly and Kelly threw the beanball at around waist level. Last year the Sox delayed the response, they dicked around with it, Barnes threw at Machado's head - they f***ed it up completely.