Pedroia undergoes microfracture surgery

[Spudboy]

I'm not giving up on Pedey so soon.

 

I have learned they you don't count him out.

 

I am confident that he will be back and will contribute to the team.

 

lol.

 

Gotta love your faith!

 

He's done.

[Spudboy]

Machado.

 

Ahhhhhhh..

 

Things were moving too fast for the kid.

 

That's an ole Pryor line about a wino.

[Spudboy]

The fact is Pedroia was a bag of scar tissue before the bad slide impact.

 

He ain't no spring chicken, either.

 

MVP was right 2 years ago but the adoration of the fans has blinded them to the obvious.

 

I have really enjoyed watching him play but I have moved on.

[notin]

The prudent thing to do is to develop a long term solution to 2nd base, even if Pedey gets back this year. I don't see either Holt or Nunez as that person and the only one I can think of who might do it is Marco Hernandez if he gets back off the long term injury report list. I don't know many left handed 2nd basemen though. I suppose Chavez has a chance but to date he has only been used at 3rd.

 

Marco Hernandez doesn't throw left-handed. He only bats that way, like many other infielders....

[oldtimer]

Marco Hernandez doesn't throw left-handed. He only bats that way, like many other infielders....

 

My mistake. My brother hits righty and throws lefty which is just the reverse. Then Hernandez has possibilities at second base when he comes off the DL.

[Bellhorn04]

lol.

 

Gotta love your faith!

 

He's done.

 

I'm halfway between you and Kimmi.

 

I'm not feeling too rosy about it. I think he might be done but I figure let's wait and see...

 

He had an operation, he played some games, he had some inflammation. I don't think the inflammation is unexpected or unusual.

 

I'm just keeping fingers crossed is all.

[Bellhorn04]

My mistake. My brother hits righty and throws lefty which is just the reverse. Then Hernandez has possibilities at second base when he comes off the DL.

 

Absolutely.

[Slasher9]

lol.

 

Gotta love your faith!

 

He's done.

This is where I am.

Personally I was done with him last year with the “it’s them, not me” BS.

DD’s backup plan for 2nd base this season was a major flaw.

[notin]

This is where I am.

Personally I was done with him last year with the “it’s them, not me” BS.

DD’s backup plan for 2nd base this season was a major flaw.

 

I believe the entire "it's them, not me" story has already been dismissed as something other than Pedroia throwing teammates under the bus. Last time I posted that we really never knew what it was, a couple other posters followed with links about the story behind what really happened, saying the whole thing is really an overblown misunderstanding...

[S5Dewey]

I believe the entire "it's them, not me" story has already been dismissed as something other than Pedroia throwing teammates under the bus. Last time I posted that we really never knew what it was, a couple other posters followed with links about the story behind what really happened, saying the whole thing is really an overblown misunderstanding...

 

That's a matter of interpretation. Brian Butterfield led 500+ of us to believe differently by dodging the question.

[Bellhorn04]

That's a matter of interpretation. Brian Butterfield led 500+ of us to believe differently by dodging the question.

 

Butterfield's allegiance may have been with Farrell. They were together in Toronto and Boston. He's not what I would call an objective party in this.

[jung]

I don't care what they do with it re-constructively, you are never going to have the same knee again once it starts to go. The cartilage starts to wear and chip away, the tendons stretch and as elastic as they are if they keep getting stretched time and again they just do not come back to what they were once. Tennis and baseball are murder on the lower body, hips, ankles, knees, feet, the achilles, whatever. If the moving parts are healthy down there you are likely to be as fit to play either sport as you are ever going to be. Once you are nursing stuff, you are not and you might not ever be again depending on when you start to wear that stuff out.

 

Its the development end of MLB that seems to be struggling IMO. Major league clubs have fewer legitimate stars to go around and there is a big fall off from the top guys to the guys that are maybe the 5th through 12 best everyday players on the everyday rosters. The back ends of ML rosters are now pretty pitiful. So, we don't have a valid fill-in for Pedey.

 

As I have said in other posts, Brock Holt is the epitome of the type of professional ballplayer that used to occupy the back end of rosters. Now, teams would die to have a Brock Holt. The guys that are playing everyday for many of these teams are not even a Brock Holt day in and day out.

 

I still think MLB's focus on trying to turn their game into a one-dimensional power game, power hitting and power pitching is simply corrupting the developmental process to such a degree that the utility and other backup players a team now has are in the main uniform fillers. This is a multi-dimensional game. The step into DH territory was not IMO a significant mutation of the game. But the stuff MLB has fostered in unison the the Saber demons represent significant mutations of the game at its core.

 

NFL, for all of the screwing around it has done with its game is still a game of blocking and tackling at its core. For all of the Patriot Coaching Staff's estimable talents, why did the Pats lose the last Super Bowl game? Because they did not have a single guy playing in their secondary that could tackle a ballerina in her tutu. One single component of that defense, could not tackle in a game of blocking and tackling and that cost them the biggest prize the NFL has to offer.

 

Turn baseball into a one dimensional game and its not baseball any longer just as the NFL would not still be football if it were not still a game of blocking and tackling. In baseball it is damaging the developmental process for players intending to make a MLB club IMO. Hence, no good backup everyday players that can actually play the game...actually not enough good everyday players even playing every day on many MLB clubs.

Edited June 4, 2018 by jung

[cp176]

When you read the article that quotes Pedroia today, it doesn't sound like he is done. He is discouraged but who wouldn't be. What I liked the most about the piece is that he is convinced that everything that was done was and has been done correctly. His words mean a lot more to me than the words of people who constantly criticize the work of our medical staff. I have no opinion with respect to the team of people who diagnose, treat, and rehab our athletes. My guess is that they are probably as good as anyone elses. Pedroia might be close to being done but who knows right. I don't think that he feels that way at all.

[cp176]

I don't care what they do with it re-constructively, you are never going to have the same knee again once it starts to go. The cartilage starts to wear and chip away, the tendons stretch and as elastic as they are if they keep getting stretched time and again they just do not come back to what they were once. Tennis and baseball are murder on the lower body, hips, ankles, knees, feet, the achilles, whatever. If the moving parts are healthy down there you are likely to be as fit to play either sport as you are ever going to be. Once you are nursing stuff, you are not and you might not ever be again depending on when you start to wear that stuff out.

 

Its the development end of MLB that seems to be struggling IMO. Major league clubs have fewer legitimate stars to go around and there is a big fall off from the top guys to the guys that are maybe the 5th through 12 best everyday players on the everyday rosters. The back ends of ML rosters are now pretty pitiful. So, we don't have a valid fill-in for Pedey.

 

As I have said in other posts, Brock Holt is the epitome of the type of professional ballplayer that used to occupy the back end of rosters. Now, teams would die to have a Brock Holt. The guys that are playing everyday for many of these teams are not even a Brock Holt day in and day out.

 

I still think MLB's focus on trying to turn their game into a one-dimensional power game, power hitting and power pitching is simply corrupting the developmental process to such a degree that the utility and other backup players a team now has are in the main uniform fillers. This is a multi-dimensional game. The step into DH territory was not IMO a significant mutation of the game. But the stuff MLB has fostered in unison the the Saber demons represent significant mutations of the game at its core.

 

NFL, for all of the screwing around it has done with its game is still a game of blocking and tackling at its core. For all of the Patriot Coaching Staff's estimable talents, why did the Pats lose the last Super Bowl game? Because they did not have a single guy playing in their secondary that could tackle a ballerina in her tutu. One single component of that defense, could not tackle in a game of blocking and tackling and that cost them the biggest prize the NFL has to offer.

 

Turn baseball into a one dimensional game and its not baseball any longer just as the NFL would not still be football if it were not still a game of blocking and tackling. In baseball it is damaging the developmental process for players intending to make a MLB club IMO. Hence, no good backup everyday players that can actually play the game...actually not enough good everyday players even playing every day on many MLB clubs.

 

One of the reasons I like Cora is that he isn't afraid to buck some of the current trends. We steal bases - we hit and run - and on occasion we might actually resort to sacrificing in an effort to move a runner over. Now along with this approach there are going to be mistakes but the bigger picture is one I like.

[jung]

When you read the article that quotes Pedroia today, it doesn't sound like he is done. He is discouraged but who wouldn't be. What I liked the most about the piece is that he is convinced that everything that was done was and has been done correctly. His words mean a lot more to me than the words of people who constantly criticize the work of our medical staff. I have no opinion with respect to the team of people who diagnose, treat, and rehab our athletes. My guess is that they are probably as good as anyone elses. Pedroia might be close to being done but who knows right. I don't think that he feels that way at all.

 

I don't think its a medical staff issue either. The med staff guys are not magicians. This is a hard game to play if you are not young and perfect from the hips down. It just is. Yet, if we start throwing players out of the league because they are not what they once were, I got news for you people. In very short order you would not have enough actual baseball players that can play at the expected level to fill even ten rosters. We don't have enough of them now!

 

Look at the Jays. Half of their everyday players are farther over the hill than Pedey is today. The other half should not be playing on any ML roster. They have three actual fit and prime everyday baseball players.....THREE!

[Bellhorn04]

Its the development end of MLB that seems to be struggling IMO. Major league clubs have fewer legitimate stars to go around and there is a big fall off from the top guys to the guys that are maybe the 5th through 12 best everyday players on the everyday rosters. The back ends of ML rosters are now pretty pitiful. So, we don't have a valid fill-in for Pedey.

 

I'm not sure things have gone downhill that much.

 

I will always remember how bad our bench was in the fateful year of 1978.

 

Jack Brohamer, Frank Duffy and the immortal Bob Bailey.

 

If we had a guy like Brock Holt that year might have turned out differently.

[jung]

The question really is where would our 2018 backups and even some guys getting everyday playing time be on a 1978 Roster. Would Swihart be on any 40 man 1978 Roster? I would say no and the only reason he is on this one or even considered to have a possible MLB future is because of his perceived power hitting potential. Would Nunez be getting any playing time at all on a 1978 Roster. Doubt it....he would be recovering somewhere which is where he should be now. Oh by the way the only reason he is getting time on this roster is because of his power hitting potential. He can have a hustle mentality all day long. Nunny does not have a hustle body at this point. Holt conversely would be getting more playing time on a 1978 Roster than he gets here or now. Why? Because his lack of power hitting potential would not be the hindrance to his career in 1978 than it is today. Health allowing, Holt would be playing 120 MLB games a year in 1978.

 

But we don't build Holt's anymore. He is a massive throwback. We build Swiharts and Devers. We bring them up almost entirely based on their power hitting ability and hope they somehow get through games without killing you everywhere else. We build guys that can't bunt, are not good bat handlers, are not good base runners and some that can barely field a position and throw them into a ML uni because they might be power hitters and those are the guys that get the playing time on 2018 rosters, that is if an organization even has them. Those are they guys that even get the opportunities in the modern MLB. Guys like Lin languish away in the minor leagues. No ML team worth its salt in 1978 would do that and if they did, said potential power hitting player would not be getting 100+ games of ML playing time almost immediately.

 

I was discussing base stealing with somebody and they brought up Billy Hamilton. Billy Hamilton would not be considered spit as a base stealer in the days of actual basestealers. Billy Hamilton is a uni filler for one of the worst teams in an MLB we all know is full of hideous teams. But MLB needs 30 teams or close to it and each team needs 25 players at least. So Billy Hamilton, who is not a power hitter but who is not a bat handler or really even a base stealer has a spot on a ML roster.

[Bellhorn04]

The question really is where would our 2018 backups and even some guys getting everyday playing time be on a 1978 Roster. Would Swihart be on any 40 man 1978 Roster? I would say no and the only reason he is on this one or even considered to have a possible MLB future is because of his perceived power hitting potential. Would Nunez be getting any playing time at all on a 1978 Roster. Doubt it....he would be recovering somewhere which is where he should be now. Oh by the way the only reason he is getting time on this roster is because of his power hitting potential. He can have a hustle mentality all day long. Nunny does not have a hustle body at this point. Holt conversely would be getting more playing time on a 1978 Roster than he gets here or now. Why? Because his lack of power hitting potential would not be the hindrance to his career in 1978 than it is today. Health allowing, Holt would be playing 120 MLB games a year in 1978.

 

But we don't build Holt's anymore. He is a massive throwback. We build Swiharts and Devers. We bring them up almost entirely based on their power hitting ability and hope they somehow get through games without killing you everywhere else. We build guys that can't bunt, are not good bat handlers, are not good base runners and some that can barely field a position and throw them into a ML uni because they might be power hitters and those are the guys that get the playing time on 2018 rosters, that is if an organization even has them. Those are they guys that even get the opportunities in the modern MLB. Guys like Lin languish away in the minor leagues. No ML team worth its salt in 1978 would do that and if they did, said potential power hitting player would not be getting 100+ games of ML playing time almost immediately.

 

I was discussing base stealing with somebody and they brought up Billy Hamilton. Billy Hamilton would not be considered spit as a base stealer in the days of actual basestealers. Billy Hamilton is a uni filler for one of the worst teams in an MLB we all know is full of hideous teams. But MLB needs 30 teams or close to it and each team needs 25 players at least. So Billy Hamilton, who is not a power hitter but who is not a bat handler or really even a base stealer has a spot on a ML roster.

 

Personally I think you're way overgeneralizing.

 

The knock on Red Sox teams of the 70's in particular was that they relied too much on the long ball, remember?

 

The 1978 team had 74 stolen bases.

 

The 2018 team has 45 already.

 

But I'm not denying that we've seen a huge trend toward going for the long ball the last couple of years, which there are numerous theories for such as the prevalence of shifts.

[mvp 78]

The fact is Pedroia was a bag of scar tissue before the bad slide impact.

 

He ain't no spring chicken, either.

 

MVP was right 2 years ago but the adoration of the fans has blinded them to the obvious.

 

I have really enjoyed watching him play but I have moved on.

 

I was just buzzarding...

[sk7326]

One of the things with the 12-13 man pitching staffs is that the bench players have to be a lot better than they were in the olden days. Holt is valuable since he can play a ton of positions - and since pitching staffs today force small benches, your bench guys need to play all over the field. It is good Cora is testing the extent of what Swihart can do there too. Swihart played 2B in high school, so giving him some reps there would not be a silly idea.

[mvp 78]

I'm halfway between you and Kimmi.

 

I'm not feeling too rosy about it. I think he might be done but I figure let's wait and see...

 

He had an operation, he played some games, he had some inflammation. I don't think the inflammation is unexpected or unusual.

 

I'm just keeping fingers crossed is all.

 

I've been really busy the past few days and haven't been able to keep up with everything. I saw a few posts about Pedey being out and figured he had to get additional surgery or something. However, if it's just inflamation, I can't say I'm really surprised. He's just going to have to get back into it slower than he wants to. I think if they hold him back now, he'll have a better chance to contribute this fall.

 

I don't see him being a substantial asset for the next few years, but his defense should keep him at least at replacement level and I think they are stuck with his contract for good.

[notin]

That's a matter of interpretation. Brian Butterfield led 500+ of us to believe differently by dodging the question.

 

Now THAT is a matter of interpretation...

[mvp 78]

Now THAT is a matter of interpretation...

 

The only guy easier to blame than the medical staff is the 3rd base coach.

 

Some people need to mix it up and find new punching bags.

[jung]

Personally I think you're way overgeneralizing.

 

The knock on Red Sox teams of the 70's in particular was that they relied too much on the long ball, remember?

 

The 1978 team had 74 stolen bases.

 

The 2018 team has 45 already.

 

But I'm not denying that we've seen a huge trend toward going for the long ball the last couple of years, which there are numerous theories for such as the prevalence of shifts.

 

Now you are talking about the general tendencies of the Red Sox fan and the Red Sox team building mentality since the beginning of time that hampered this team for decades. Our teams were heavy hitting or tried to be heavy hitting, pitching light teams FOREVER. The actual ONLY difference is that since this ownership group came on board, we will at least BUY pitching. Do we develop pitching here....STILL after all these years? We do occasionally at best. I don't think anybody would actually want to make the case that no ML teams develop pitching? That would be a hard case to make.

 

Tom Yawkey would have sooner died (and finally did) before becoming a franchise that would develop pitching or even treat it like more than an afterthought. A starter of merit and A relief pitcher of merit was about all Tom would tolerate. Mrs Yawkey's group, the Harrington group, everyone of them up until this Henry group treated the assets about the same way, only grudgingly moving closer and closer to an acknowledgement of pitching as an asset a team just had to have if it truly wanted to win championships. It was a matter of some local pride that we could compete at a ML level with mainly sluggers though in fact we couldn't. At least now we will buy pitching. Pitchers and black players were for other teams....not the Boston Red Sox.

 

But those Yawkey teams had guys that could handle the bat and that could field the baseball. They coudn't run worth crap. But then again, Yawkey was just the standard bearer for an American League that was late to developing any players that were not lily white. We went through a stretch when the All Star game actually meant something where the NL won something like fourteen All star games in a row mainly because AL all star teams could not match up athletically. The stretch from the end of the 50's to 1982 the NL compiled an All star game record of 23-1-1! They had mercy on the AL in 1971 only. They literally ran AL teams off the field which is hard to do. It is baseball after all. Its not a track meet. Stubborn those AL owners were about that whole deal of accepting black players.

[mvp 78]

Now you are talking about the general tendencies of the Red Sox fan and the Red Sox team building mentality since the beginning of time that hampered this team for decades. Our teams were heavy hitting or tried to be heavy hitting, pitching light teams FOREVER. The actual ONLY difference is that since this ownership group came on board, we will at least BUY pitching. Do we develop pitching here....STILL after all these years? We do occasionally at best. I don't think anybody would actually want to make the case that no ML teams develop pitching? That would be a hard case to make.

 

Tom Yawkey would have sooner died (and finally did) before becoming a franchise that would develop pitching or even treat it like more than an afterthought. A starter of merit and A relief pitcher of merit was about all Tom would tolerate. Mrs Yawkey's group, the Harrington group, everyone of them up until this Henry group treated the assets about the same way, only grudgingly moving closer and closer to an acknowledgement of pitching as an asset a team just had to have if it truly wanted to win championships. It was a matter of some local pride that we could compete at a ML level with mainly sluggers though in fact we couldn't. At least now we will buy pitching. Pitchers and black players were for other teams....not the Boston Red Sox.

 

Wut?

[cp176]

Now you are talking about the general tendencies of the Red Sox fan and the Red Sox team building mentality since the beginning of time that hampered this team for decades. Our teams were heavy hitting or tried to be heavy hitting, pitching light teams FOREVER. The actual ONLY difference is that since this ownership group came on board, we will at least BUY pitching. Do we develop pitching here....STILL after all these years? We do occasionally at best. I don't think anybody would actually want to make the case that no ML teams develop pitching? That would be a hard case to make.

 

Tom Yawkey would have sooner died (and finally did) before becoming a franchise that would develop pitching or even treat it like more than an afterthought. A starter of merit and A relief pitcher of merit was about all Tom would tolerate. Mrs Yawkey's group, the Harrington group, everyone of them up until this Henry group treated the assets about the same way, only grudgingly moving closer and closer to an acknowledgement of pitching as an asset a team just had to have if it truly wanted to win championships. It was a matter of some local pride that we could compete at a ML level with mainly sluggers though in fact we couldn't. At least now we will buy pitching. Pitchers and black players were for other teams....not the Boston Red Sox.

 

But those Yawkey teams had guys that could handle the bat and that could field the baseball. They coudn't run worth crap. But then again, Yawkey was just the standard bearer for an American League that was late to developing any players that were not lily white. We went through a stretch when the All Star game actually meant something where the NL won something like fourteen All star games in a row mainly because AL all star teams could not match up athletically. The stretch from the end of the 50's to 1982 the NL compiled an All star game record of 23-1-1! They had mercy on the AL in 1971 only. They literally ran AL teams off the field which is hard to do. It is baseball after all. Its not a track meet. Stubborn those AL owners were about that whole deal of accepting black players.

 

Here I was reading along and having a good time with my old memories and you turned it ugly.

[S5Dewey]

Now THAT is a matter of interpretation...

 

Everyone I spoke with who was there agrees with my interpretation. Were you there? If so I must have missed seeing you.

[Bellhorn04]

Everyone I spoke with who was there agrees with my interpretation. Were you there? If so I must have missed seeing you.

 

But Dewey, don't you think Butterfield might be a pretty good buddy of Farrell's?

[a700hitter]

But Dewey, don't you think Butterfield might be a pretty good buddy of Farrell's?

Even if he were a buddy of Butterfield, it doesn't follow that he would throw Pedroia under the bus. I don't recall any bad blood between Farrell and Pedroia. Also, the question related to how his actions were received in the clubhouse, not by Farrell.

[S5Dewey]

But Dewey, don't you think Butterfield might be a pretty good buddy of Farrell's?

 

I don't see what that has to do with whether or not Pedey's comment was well received by the clubhouse. I'm not going to recount the conversation - others have made their own attempt to discredit it anyway. What I do know is that the discomfort they felt when the question came up was palpable.

 

I was there. I know the impression I got and I also know the impression that the dozen or more people I've spoken with who were also there agrees with mine (unless you want to say they were being dishonest with me - which is a cop-out argument).

 

People are going to believe what they want to believe. I was there and know what I believe. Others don't. Meh.

 

But you can bet your sweet ass that I'm not going to relay anything else I hear at forums like that. I thought I was in a position to give a little insight and all I've gotten is ********.