Fire alex cora

[mvp 78]

But that is not what the 1919 White Sox did.

 

Some of them took money to throw the games, but some of the ones charged also lead the team to three wins in that series. And they reportedly had to throw the series at the end due to threats of violence against their families.

 

The Astros faced no such pressure...

 

Ok, they took money to throw games. Seems bad! Worse than what Rose did and what Rose did was really bad. Astros stealing signs is akin to what the Jays were doing in the Sky Dome back in the late 90's/early 00's according to various reports and what was openly stated on Red Sox broadcasts at the time. The Astros just beefed up that operation.

[notin]

Ok, they took money to throw games. Seems bad! Worse than what Rose did and what Rose did was really bad. Astros stealing signs is akin to what the Jays were doing in the Sky Dome back in the late 90's/early 00's according to various reports and what was openly stated on Red Sox broadcasts at the time. The Astros just beefed up that operation.

 

And the Black Sox were the biggest scandal in MLB history. Right now, the Astros are. Steroids, for all the negative press, at least skirted the rules at various times and was unethical without always being illegal.

 

So are the 2017 Astros the 21st Century version of the Black Sox? I'd at least argue they are the closest we have seen...

[Bellhorn04]

So are the 2017 Astros the 21st Century version of the Black Sox? I'd at least argue they are the closest we have seen...

 

Why is it necessary to seek an equivalence? Two completely different scenarios.

 

The big difference is that the Astros by and large got away with it. They still have their rings-in fact some of those guys now have two of them.

 

Karma was snoozing.

[mvp 78]

And the Black Sox were the biggest scandal in MLB history. Right now, the Astros are. Steroids, for all the negative press, at least skirted the rules at various times and was unethical without always being illegal.

 

So are the 2017 Astros the 21st Century version of the Black Sox? I'd at least argue they are the closest we have seen...

 

I don't believe the two situations are comparable.

[notin]

Why is it necessary to seek an equivalence? Two completely different scenarios.

 

The big difference is that the Astros by and large got away with it. They still have their rings-in fact some of those guys now have two of them.

 

Karma was snoozing.

 

One similarity is that, like the White Sox, a lot of Astros hated that the team was doing it. Altuve reportedly cussed out anyone banging the drum during his at-bats. There were a few others, too.

 

But Karma slept right through it. That season enabled Marwin Gonzalez to get himself a couple contracts he clearly was not worth...

[notin]

I don't believe the two situations are comparable.

 

The crimes were different, but they both sit atop the scandal sheet for their respective eras...

[Bellhorn04]

The crimes were different, but they both sit atop the scandal sheet for their respective eras...

 

Some might put McGwire, Sosa and Bonds right up there too.

[notin]

Some might put McGwire, Sosa and Bonds right up there too.

 

That is another candidate. To me, the illegality of some of there offenses is still in question. But it certainly garnered enough attention...

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Some might put McGwire, Sosa and Bonds right up there too.

 

The serious baseball fans I know feel much more betrayed by the players who broke rules to inflate their bodies and deflate statistical records cherished and memorized for a century, rather than by one team of players in one year who pissed off the Dodgers and Yankees for doing a better job than they did at an accepted part of the game that has been in existence since it was invented.

[notin]

The serious baseball fans I know feel much more betrayed by the players who broke rules to inflate their bodies and deflate statistical records cherished and memorized for a century, rather than by one team of players in one year who pissed off the Dodgers and Yankees for doing a better job than they did at an accepted part of the game that has been in existence since it was invented.

 

What about the players who inflated their bodies without breaking the rules? Not all PEDs were illegal for a lot of that scandal, and MLB only had rules against using illegal drugs...

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

What about the players who inflated their bodies without breaking the rules? Not all PEDs were illegal for a lot of that scandal, and MLB only had rules against using illegal drugs...

 

Isn't your answer just like the Astros -- the only ones who really bother people are those who benefit the most from perceived unfair advantages.

[notin]

Isn't your answer just like the Astros -- the only ones who really bother people are those who benefit the most from perceived unfair advantages.

 

Except that one is actually breaking existing rules while the other is taking advantage of gaps in the rules.

 

If there was no rule against using technology to steal signs and the Astros did so, that would be another matter...

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Except that one is actually breaking existing rules while the other is taking advantage of gaps in the rules.

 

If there was no rule against using technology to steal signs and the Astros did so, that would be another matter...

 

Not saying I'm against it, but banning technology anywhere for anything nowadays seems absurd. And I'm a dinosaur who can't even touch a dumbphone without it face-timing random people (I've never consciously used FT in my life) -- so imagine telling that to actual young competitors?

 

It's like banning cellphones from schools -- how is that working out, when parents want access to kids 24-7...

 

Remember back in 2019, when NY was beating up on the Sox, and Cora noted -- not with displeasure -- that the Yankees were paying better attention to details? It was a contest between AC and Beltran, who was hired to "coach" the Yanks for obvious reasons...

Edited February 14, 2024 by 5GoldGloves:OF,75

[mvp 78]

Cora Watch Day 2:

 

@TomCaron

Alex Cora back to work.

[vegasbob]

This will be Cora's last year in Boston. Whatever the outcome, short of a miracle WS appearance, there will be a mutual parting of the ways. He won't be fired but will become another FA let go . There could be some interesting openings depending on the performance of other high budget teams. Dave Roberts it's a WS win or bust for you.

 

If the Sox ownership won't pay premiums for prime players , why would they do so for a manager ?

[Bellhorn04]

This will be Cora's last year in Boston. Whatever the outcome, short of a miracle WS appearance, there will be a mutual parting of the ways. He won't be fired but will become another FA let go . There could be some interesting openings depending on the performance of other high budget teams. Dave Roberts it's a WS win or bust for you.

 

If the Sox ownership won't pay premiums for prime players , why would they do so for a manager ?

 

It's an interesting situation, because at times he talks like he's already part of the front office, more so than any manager I remember. And the owners must like him to not have fired him already.

 

You never know what's going to happen with this team. They keep you guessing.

[mvp 78]

This will be Cora's last year in Boston. Whatever the outcome, short of a miracle WS appearance, there will be a mutual parting of the ways. He won't be fired but will become another FA let go . There could be some interesting openings depending on the performance of other high budget teams. Dave Roberts it's a WS win or bust for you.

 

If the Sox ownership won't pay premiums for prime players , why would they do so for a manager ?

 

He says he doesn’t want to be a manager for the next decade. Does he move to a FO somewhere (Sox have GM opening) or does he cash out and get a manager job elsewhere?

[vegasbob]

He says he doesn’t want to be a manager for the next decade. Does he move to a FO somewhere (Sox have GM opening) or does he cash out and get a manager job elsewhere?

 

Agreed, he has said he doesn't want to field manage for a decade ( 10 yrs or so), but a 5 year deal with a true contender at about $25-$40million could easily entice AC to give it a try. Who knows the Yankee job doesn't open up, or even the Dodgers if Roberts stumbles.

[dgalehouse]

Agreed, he has said he doesn't want to field manage for a decade ( 10 yrs or so), but a 5 year deal with a true contender at about $25-$40million could easily entice AC to give it a try. Who knows the Yankee job doesn't open up, or even the Dodgers if Roberts stumbles.

 

Given the Dodger's roster, there could be a lot of pressure on Roberts to win it all.

[vegasbob]

Given the Dodger's roster, there could be a lot of pressure on Roberts to win it all.

 

Certainly a given that Robert's Dodgers must reach the WS, if not actually win it. Ownership there has shown patience while that All-Star roster has been put together.

[mvp 78]

Agreed, he has said he doesn't want to field manage for a decade ( 10 yrs or so), but a 5 year deal with a true contender at about $25-$40million could easily entice AC to give it a try. Who knows the Yankee job doesn't open up, or even the Dodgers if Roberts stumbles.

 

Doyers are his most likely landing spot.

[notin]

Doyers are his most likely landing spot.

 

Mets might be another consideration…

[mvp 78]

Mets might be another consideration…

 

Wouldn’t he want to go to a good franchise?

[notin]

Wouldn’t he want to go to a good franchise?

 

Depends on Cora.

 

He might just want a high-spending one so he can get credit for making them good. The Dodgers have been to the postseason ten straight years now. It’s easier to f*** that up than it is to take it to the next level…

[mvp 78]

@alexspeier

As the Sox near their home opener, Cora was asked about last year’s struggles at Fenway. He said the team has struggled at home since ‘19 (with the exception of ‘21). Asked for a cause, he cited … bad pitching, bad defense, bad baserunning, bad hitting, and a lack of atmosphere.

 

The GOAT stated that it's not an uncomfortable place to play for visitors anymore. That Sweet Caroline coming on when you're down by 7 "doesn't sound great." Because the draw of "Fenway" as a destination, it has a lot of visiting fans which takes away the homefield advantage. He said that changes when it gets to October, probably referencing '21.

 

Fenway definitely isn't the advantage now that it probably felt like 20 years ago when things were running hot. Fan interest is bound to wax and wane, but ownership has done this team no favors since 2019.

[moonslav59]

For argument's sake, say the top Sox brass assures Cora they will spend much more in the next 5 years: can he believe them?

 

Even if he does, it may not be enough to make him want to stay. How well this year's team does may play a role in how he views the future, here. He's also likely to be excited about Anthony, Teel, Mayer and maybe a couple others looking to graduate in 1-2 years, with more coming in 3-4 years.

 

Hard to know what he's thinking or feeling.

[Bellhorn04]

For argument's sake, say the top Sox brass assures Cora they will spend much more in the next 5 years: can he believe them?

 

Even if he does, it may not be enough to make him want to stay. How well this year's team does may play a role in how he views the future, here. He's also likely to be excited about Anthony, Teel, Mayer and maybe a couple others looking to graduate in 1-2 years, with more coming in 3-4 years.

 

Hard to know what he's thinking or feeling.

 

I've done a real 180 on all this recently, I must admit.

 

I think Cora may have a pretty positive outlook on where things are going.

 

The youth movement has arrived.

 

Breslow and Bailey seem to be doing a fine job.

 

There are a few signals of spending with the extension for Bello and reports of negotiations with other extension candidates.

 

But obviously if they want to keep Cora they're going to have to pay the man.

[mvp 78]

I've done a real 180 on all this recently, I must admit.

 

I think Cora may have a pretty positive outlook on where things are going.

 

The youth movement has arrived.

 

Breslow and Bailey seem to be doing a fine job.

 

There are a few signals of spending with the extension for Bello and reports of negotiations with other extension candidates.

 

But obviously if they want to keep Cora they're going to have to pay the man.

 

Good one!

 

Counsell just got 5/40. Cora only makes 3M.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Good one!

 

Counsell just got 5/40. Cora only makes 3M.

 

Ya, we already know that ain't happening in Leantown.

 

If the new lights-out pitching holds up, there's a better chance of an extension for Bailey than Cora; coaches cost a lot less than managers.

[vegasbob]

Alex Speier's quote from Cora is telling : bad pitching,..defense,....hitting,....baserunning,....lack of atmosphere (????) . Follow up question: "AC, who is the manager of this team that should getting results in all those categories ? "

 

If you want atmosphere just walk the concourse from 1B area to 3B and you'll smell plenty of atmosphere.