Fire alex cora

[notin]

Dig up Bill Mazeroski! Piss on his HOF plaque!

 

Ditto Gaylord Perry!

[Bellhorn04]

Deciphering the codes is not the issue. Using the camera feeds to watch the codes via replay is the issue. In 1961, the use of any "mechanical means" or outside source for stealing signs was banned by the NL President Warren Giles. But players were, punished for it long before that, going back to 1901 when Phillies third base coach Pearce Chiles put his backup catcher in the centerfield bleachers with binoculars and ran a cable underground to the third base coaching box so the player could send him electrical impusles he could feel with his feet. He was caught mid-game because opponents noticed this perennial puddle in the coaching box (used to amplify the signal) even when it had not rained for weeks. Yes, opposing player ran over there midgame and started digging up the coaching box!!

 

So this was already deemed illegal. Steroids, for which players do get banned, were not made illegal until the early 2000's, unless the drug in question was already illegal itself.

 

Stealing signs by decoding them live - or looking for tells and pitch tipping - is still legal and was never banned. Just using live game feeds to decode them was.

 

As for changing signs, that has always been done. Usually as part of the set up. It can be something simple like "follow the two" where the sign after a catcher flashes the two is the real one. Or something more complex like "balls plus one" where the relevant sign changes with the count.

 

Of course, all of this was also much simpler when players only spoke English. But as MLB gets increasingly multilingual, the techniques for communicating have to adapt as well.

 

Just wait until some team employs some hacker to intercept the PitchCom transmissions!

 

Bottom line - Cora broke a rule. I used to think he was punished accordingly. I'm not so sure anymore. They ddi revamp the whole way signals get transmitted now because of him...

 

This is case of the whole team cheating, though.

[notin]

This is case of the whole team cheating, though.

 

True, but do you think managers and team officials should be more accountable than players?

[mvp 78]

Ditto Gaylord Perry!

 

Our sweet This Week In Baseball prince!

[mvp 78]

This is case of the whole team cheating, though.

 

Should have foreclosed on the whole operation and given the stadium directly to the public.

[moonslav59]

How do you equate it to the various gambling scandals that have resulted in bans?

 

That's a hard one. I think the integrity of the game, itself is put on the line, when people think games may be compromised by gambling influences.

 

I can see both sides of the Pete Rose issue, and his issue is more about the HOF and post career relationships with MLB.

 

I do think the Astros cheating was a major issue that also affected the integrity of the game. I hate to use the "everyone is doing it to some degree" argument, because I dislike it, but everybody is not gambling on their own games. The Astros went to an extreme I doubt any other team went to. All teams were pre-warned about using technology to cheat. They cheated, and Cora was right in the middle of it.

 

I don't think it was fair to not suspend any players, and maybe a 1 year ban was too little, but a lifetime ban seems extreme.

 

How do you equate this to spitball pitchers?

[moonslav59]

Also, Mejia was banned for testing positive for anabolic steroids. No jump.

 

Wasn't he reinstated?

 

Also, it was 3 times, and he knew the 3 strike rule after #2.

[Bellhorn04]

True, but do you think managers and team officials should be more accountable than players?

 

Yes, and they were.

[notin]

That's a hard one. I think the integrity of the game, itself is put on the line, when people think games may be compromised by gambling influences.

 

I can see both sides of the Pete Rose issue, and his issue is more about the HOF and post career relationships with MLB.

 

I do think the Astros cheating was a major issue that also affected the integrity of the game. I hate to use the "everyone is doing it to some degree" argument, because I dislike it, but everybody is not gambling on their own games. The Astros went to an extreme I doubt any other team went to. All teams were pre-warned about using technology to cheat. They cheated, and Cora was right in the middle of it.

 

I don't think it was fair to not suspend any players, and maybe a 1 year ban was too little, but a lifetime ban seems extreme.

 

How do you equate this to spitball pitchers?

 

I think spitballers (specifically one defiant one) get off far to easy. They get viewed too often as these comical heroes whose antics amuse us while they defy authority. If Palmeiro and Bonds don’t get enshrined, get Perry out, too.

 

That said, spitballers are lesser criminals than team signal thieves…

[notin]

Should have foreclosed on the whole operation and given the stadium directly to the public.

 

I think some good ol’ fashioned tar and feathering is in order, too.

[mvp 78]

I think spitballers (specifically one defiant one) get off far to easy. They get viewed too often as these comical heroes whose antics amuse us while they defy authority. If Palmeiro and Bonds don’t get enshrined, get Perry out, too.

 

That said, spitballers are lesser criminals than team signal thieves…

 

Would have to take out Whitey Ford, Don Sutton and Don Drysdale too.

[moonslav59]

I think spitballers (specifically one defiant one) get off far to easy. They get viewed too often as these comical heroes whose antics amuse us while they defy authority. If Palmeiro and Bonds don’t get enshrined, get Perry out, too.

 

That said, spitballers are lesser criminals than team signal thieves…

 

Why?

[mvp 78]

Why?

 

Sign stealers have actually caused death on the field. That has never happened with a spitball.

[Elktonnick]

As I just finished reading "Cheated", I have come to agree with those who say Cora shouldn't be managing at all...

About time you saw the light.

[jad]

The high moral propriety of posters here, and sports fans in general, always astounds me. How is it possible there is evil in the world.

[moonslav59]

The high moral propriety of posters here, and sports fans in general, always astounds me. How is it possible there is evil in the world.

 

I will say, it seems to be more peaceful, around here, lately, despite the woes that face us sinners, this season.

[notin]

The high moral propriety of posters here, and sports fans in general, always astounds me. How is it possible there is evil in the world.

 

Talking into the mirror? You have already judged O’Neill to be a steroid abuser. And ranted anout Verdugo’s incident multiple times spanning 5 years, never once acknowledging he was cleared of any involvement. And also questioned the morality of any and all Bloom acquisitions. And probably other stuff I’m leaving out.

 

But I forgot to disallow questioning the morality and ethical background of a member of the Sox for whom your fandom is already spoken for…

[mvp 78]

Cora Watch Day 1:

 

Skipping practice today due to "stomach bug."

[Dipre]

Talking into the mirror? You have already judged O’Neill to be a steroid abuser. And ranted anout Verdugo’s incident multiple times spanning 5 years, never once acknowledging he was cleared of any involvement. And also questioned the morality of any and all Bloom acquisitions. And probably other stuff I’m leaving out.

 

But I forgot to disallow questioning the morality and ethical background of a member of the Sox for whom your fandom is already spoken for…

 

Shots fired.

[jad]

Talking into the mirror? You have already judged O’Neill to be a steroid abuser. And ranted anout Verdugo’s incident multiple times spanning 5 years, never once acknowledging he was cleared of any involvement. And also questioned the morality of any and all Bloom acquisitions. And probably other stuff I’m leaving out.

 

But I forgot to disallow questioning the morality and ethical background of a member of the Sox for whom your fandom is already spoken for…

 

Actually, I have indeed acknowledge Verdugo (that jewel in the Betts trade) had charges dropped. As has Bauer and other fan favorites. And I'm not sure I have ever accused whatsisname of steroid abuse (not that I would give a crap about that anyway). I just don't like the fact that he is average and injured.

 

I agree, though, I'm not big on guys arrested for masturbating in public. But to each his own.

[Bellhorn04]

Actually, I have indeed acknowledge Verdugo (that jewel in the Betts trade) had charges dropped. As has Bauer and other fan favorites. And I'm not sure I have ever accused whatsisname of steroid abuse (not that I would give a crap about that anyway). I just don't like the fact that he is average and injured.

 

I agree, though, I'm not big on guys arrested for masturbating in public. But to each his own.

 

The obvious question that's arising here:

 

Which is worse:

 

a) Helping your team cheat its way to a World Series championship; or

Pleasuring yourself in public.

[mvp 78]

The obvious question that's arising here:

 

Which is worse:

 

a) Helping your team cheat its way to a World Series championship; or

Pleasuring yourself in public.

 

In this specific instance it would be (a) since nobody saw McGuire do it except for the cop.

[notin]

The obvious question that's arising here:

 

Which is worse:

 

a) Helping your team cheat its way to a World Series championship; or

Pleasuring yourself in public.

 

I will let you know when someone writes the book about McGuire's scandal.

 

The real question I wonder is - are the 2017 Astros the modern equivalent of the 1919 White Sox?

[notin]

Actually, I have indeed acknowledge Verdugo (that jewel in the Betts trade) had charges dropped. As has Bauer and other fan favorites. And I'm not sure I have ever accused whatsisname of steroid abuse (not that I would give a crap about that anyway). I just don't like the fact that he is average and injured.

 

I agree, though, I'm not big on guys arrested for masturbating in public. But to each his own.

 

Bauer never had charges dropped. Primarily because there were never charges filed. That was a civil lawsuit...

[mvp 78]

I will let you know when someone writes the book about McGuire's scandal.

 

The real question I wonder is - are the 2017 Astros the modern equivalent of the 1919 White Sox?

 

Betting on losing a game is worse.

[mvp 78]

Bauer never had charges dropped. Primarily because there were never charges filed. That was a civil lawsuit...

 

Please, sir... Don't.

[jad]

I'm really surprised the FO burner accounts are spending so much bandwidth defending players who are not even on the team.

[notin]

Betting on losing a game is worse.

 

But that is not what the 1919 White Sox did.

 

Some of them took money to throw the games, but some of the ones charged also lead the team to three wins in that series. And they reportedly had to throw the series at the end due to threats of violence against their families.

 

The Astros faced no such pressure...

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

The obvious question that's arising here:

 

Which is worse:

 

a) Helping your team cheat its way to a World Series championship; or

Pleasuring yourself in public.

 

One has been tried since the invention of baseball; the other since before "striking out, while trying to hit a home run" was invented, and could be used as a metaphor (but not necessarily always in public).

[Bellhorn04]

But that is not what the 1919 White Sox did.

 

Some of them took money to throw the games, but some of the ones charged also lead the team to three wins in that series. And they reportedly had to throw the series at the end due to threats of violence against their families.

 

The Astros faced no such pressure...

 

The problem with the Astros scandal is that there has been so much cheating in the game over the years that it could be argued that all they did was cheat better.