Fire alex cora

[Kimmi]

Disagree.

 

A man I used to work with (he retired) summed up the need for progress even when you’re on top so eloquently - “ if you stand still, you’re roadkill.”

 

DD stood still since November, by his own choice...

 

He didn't really stand still though, did he? He just didn't make moves to the degree that some other teams did, but with a 108 win team, there's not much upgrade to be done. There's also the saying that "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."

 

The GM's job is to put together a team, on paper, that is a legitimate contender. Dombrowski did that. What happens on the field is out of his control.

[notin]

If we had some well-pitched starts lately the W-L record would be looking considerably better. We're losing a lot of games where we're putting up 5 runs or more.

 

Yes, if we had more games where we outscored the opposition, our record would be better.

 

After 2013, Ben Cherington did nothing and went from First to Worst. After 2018, Dombrowski did nothing include learn the lesson from Cherington. Acceptable?

[Bellhorn04]

Well how did he try to improve it?

 

It’s been bad all year, has he taken any steps? Did he follow through on anything?

 

Or do you think “live or die with Plan A” is the right course of action here?

 

When your payroll is pushing the top threshold and your farm is depleted, then yeah, you pretty much need Plan A to work.

 

Getting Cashner seemed like a decent little tweak.

[Kimmi]

Nope, the bottom line is that the the high priced talent that the team depends on to pitch at a high level isn't getting it done, for whatever reason.

the no-hit Rays lit this pitching staff up like a Christmas tree this week. I expect the Yankees to do the same,

 

It's an enigma. Starting pitching was supposed to be a strength. They have failed miserably.

[Bellhorn04]

Yes, if we had more games where we outscored the opposition, our record would be better.

 

After 2013, Ben Cherington did nothing and went from First to Worst. After 2018, Dombrowski did nothing include learn the lesson from Cherington. Acceptable?

 

As I've mentioned before, the 2008 Red Sox did pretty good after Theo stood pat. It's not a guaranteed death sentence.

[notin]

He didn't really stand still though, did he? He just didn't make moves to the degree that some other teams did, but with a 108 win team, there's not much upgrade to be done. There's also the saying that "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."

 

The GM's job is to put together a team, on paper, that is a legitimate contender. Dombrowski did that. What happens on the field is out of his control.

 

While what happens is out of control, that doesn’t make sitting idly by the best course of action, does it?

 

And I haven’t once mentioned the wisdom in letting the back end of the bullpen walk only to replace them with a 26yo career minor leaguer, all while spending the limited budget on a backup 1b and a SP with a long history of injuries (who, notably, has been injured nearly all season)...

[Kimmi]

Its not that the pitching coach should be fired it is that he should have never been hired for that job in the first place. As near as I can determine he has never thrown a baseball to a batter in any game in organized baseball at any level. He simply was not qualified for the job. As they used say you don't appoint a chiropractor to be surgeon general.

 

I am not familiar with Levangie's background, but if that's the case, I agree with you.

 

IMO, Farrell would be great as a pitching coach.

[Kimmi]

While what happens is out of control, that doesn’t make sitting idly by the best course of action, does it?

 

And I haven’t once mentioned the wisdom in letting the back end of the bullpen walk only to replace them with a 26yo career minor leaguer, all while spending the limited budget on a backup 1b and a SP with a long history of injuries (who, notably, has been injured nearly all season)...

 

The team was built on the strength of the starting pitching, not the bullpen. If the starters were pitching like they did last season, the pen would be a non issue.

[Bellhorn04]

Its not that the pitching coach should be fired it is that he should have never been hired for that job in the first place. As near as I can determine he has never thrown a baseball to a batter in any game in organized baseball at any level. He simply was not qualified for the job. As they used say you don't appoint a chiropractor to be surgeon general.

 

It does seem a strange choice, but it's pretty hard to argue with last year's results.

[Elktonnick]

It does seem a strange choice, but it's pretty hard to argue with last year's results.

 

You pick coaches not for flash in the pan results but the long haul.

[Bellhorn04]

You pick coaches not for flash in the pan results but the long haul.

 

Well, I don't consider a 119 win season and world championship a 'flash in the pan'.

 

'Flags fly forever' is the correct phrase.

[Kimmi]

Well, I don't consider a 119 win season and world championship a 'flash in the pan'.

 

'Flags fly forever' is the correct phrase.

 

I think we are all looking for a reason or an explanation or a scapegoat of why things are going so poorly this year, relative to last year.

 

I don't think we can pinpoint it down to one or even two things. It's a combination of several factors, the least of which is not the fluky nature of baseball.

[dgalehouse]

There should be no thought of firing Cora . But please stop anointing him as the greatest .

[a700hitter]

Cora is a second year manager. Mistakes are to be expected.

 

Dombrowski has been an MLB GM for over 25 years and a front office executive for over 40 years. He should know by now what he is doing...

No Red Sox team in history has finished first three consecutive years. DD did that. He must know what he is doing.

[dannycater]

No Red Sox team in history has finished first three consecutive years. DD did that. He must know what he is doing.

 

He brought in Pearce, Eavoldi last year, the price you pay to win it all. DD has been terrific, and standing pat was probably the best course of action.

[a700hitter]

If anyone needs to be fired, it would be the pitching coach. Practically the entire staff is under performing in terms of runs allowed, efficiency of pitches, or both.

 

I'm not saying he should be fired, but he would be the practical scapegoat if the team is looking for one.

I agree. They should remain in place until the beginning of 2020. Cora should be on a short leash in 2020.

[moonslav59]

I think we are all looking for a reason or an explanation or a scapegoat of why things are going so poorly this year, relative to last year.

 

I don't think we can pinpoint it down to one or even two things. It's a combination of several factors, the least of which is not the fluky nature of baseball.

 

A lot of things went right, last year. We have a few things going right this year (Devers, Bogey, Vaz & Workman), but it has not been enough to offset all that has gone wrong.

 

Here are a few "wrong" things worth mentioning:

 

1) The starting rotation was supposed to be a strength- possibly top 3-5 in MLB.

2) The pen has done a lot right (in terms of what was expected) but has failed by blowing too many saves.

3) The defense, except for Devers has slipped a bit.

4) Performance decline by Betts, JD and others, especially when needed most.

5) Mistakes by DD, Cora, coaches, players and even the umps seem to have happened at the worst times.

6) Too many "snake bite" games.

 

So, where do we go from here?

 

Our farm is weak, and the best of our farm are 2-4 years away.

 

Our budget is tapped out, and we are maxing out on taxes, because we have gone over the limit in consecutive seasons.

 

We are losing some dead and near dead salary this winter (Pablo & Porcello) and next (Castillo), but with arb raises and 5 high priced players on the roll, our hands will be tied, unless we keep going over the second or third tax line year after year.

 

The league has made it much more difficult for winning and high-spending teams to build their farms up. We have been both winners and spenders for several years in a row, so in my opinion, we will need to pick a time to reset the tax and maybe right off a season or two to get some decent draft picks and international free agents.

 

I've lived through decades of frustration and incompetence. I'm okay with needing a year or two to regroup, but I worry trying to play it "half way" might make it next to impossible to build the farm to a point where it can get us to the promise land once again. Let's not forget, although we did need some FA help to win all these rings, the core of homegrown players were essential to each ring season.

 

If anybody thinks Chavis, Dalbec, Marco, DHern and others are similar to the prospects that came up from 2002 to 2016 or that were traded for pieces that helped us win in 2018, I think you may be in for a rude awakening. Just my opinion.

 

 

[Bellhorn04]

No Red Sox team in history has finished first three consecutive years. DD did that. He must know what he is doing.

 

I think so too. And Cora was his hand-picked manager, let's not forget.

[moonslav59]

No Red Sox team in history has finished first three consecutive years. DD did that. He must know what he is doing.

 

I can't remember and Sox GM emptying the farm as much as DD did as well. We went from top 5 to bottom 5 without hardly any in system graduations.

 

(Note: I was fine with the strategy and the expected consequences.)

[dgalehouse]

When your payroll is pushing the top threshold and your farm is depleted, then yeah, you pretty much need Plan A to work.

 

Getting Cashner seemed like a decent little tweak.

 

Standing pat is seldom a good plan . I was always opposed to it . Some said it would not be a problem . Besides , if need be , we can always pick up something good at the deadline . Oops . Scratch that .

[dgalehouse]

Cora is having a team meeting before tonight's game . He will tell them that ownership and management have so much faith in you that they did nothing at the deadline . Well , that and the fact that they don't want to spend any more money on this . And there was the insinuation that you were overpaid and underachieving. Let's go boys . Win this one or there will be no post game ice cream .

[notin]

The team was built on the strength of the starting pitching, not the bullpen. If the starters were pitching like they did last season, the pen would be a non issue.

 

It’s ok to be built on SP, but that doesn’t justify ignoring the bullpen.

 

Since the WS, the Sox have lost Kimbrel and Kelly from the bullpen and the only relievers added since were Brewer and Taylor. I like that he went out for a bunch of minor league FA, but that has amounted to 0 IP in Boston this year.

 

And as I’ve been saying way too often, I don’t get why he ignored the bullpen with his limited resources to focus on backup 1b. I didn’t know at the time how little financial wiggle room he had, but I very hope he knew...

[OH FOY]

From what I heard on radio last night, this wont be a grab ass meeting. Cora is pissed, and he will let them know it, and that's good.

[notin]

As I've mentioned before, the 2008 Red Sox did pretty good after Theo stood pat. It's not a guaranteed death sentence.

 

The 2008 Red Sox made a massive in-season move. Manny Ramirez for Jason Bay?

[notin]

Standing pat is seldom a good plan . I was always opposed to it . Some said it would not be a problem . Besides , if need be , we can always pick up something good at the deadline . Oops . Scratch that .

 

That’s a tough plan to rely on. But there were dozens of opportunities before then that were also bypassed.

 

Anthony Bass opted out in Cincy. Trevor Rosenthal was released in Washington. Both went to non-contenders and are actually doing well. Where was Dombrowski?

 

I’m sure I could find other names as well beyond these two examples from the top of my head...

[dgalehouse]

No Red Sox team in history has finished first three consecutive years. DD did that. He must know what he is doing.

D.D. won three straight A.L. East titles by being aggressive. This year , for some reason , he stopped being aggressive.

[dgalehouse]

The pitching coach , or hitting coach , as the case may be , is always a convenient scapegoat. Yeah. That's it . It's that lousy pitching coach . Fire him . Experienced , highly paid , veterans like Sale , Price and Porcello need better coaching .

[notin]

D.D. won three straight A.L. East titles by being aggressive. This year , for some reason , he stopped being aggressive.

 

And I get he didn’t have the same resources. Limited budget. No farm.

 

But he’s been a GM for a long time. Certainly this has come up before in his career at some point. He must have some experience to draw from...

[Elktonnick]

Well, I don't consider a 119 win season and world championship a 'flash in the pan'.

 

'Flags fly forever' is the correct phrase.

 

It is hard to ascribe the 2018 pitching results to a person who never threw a pitch in his life in organized baseball competition or who had never been a pitching coach anywhere except his brief stint as bullpen coach. I always thought his selection had more to due with personality and patronage than actual knowledge of pitching or pitching mechanics. He simply was in the right place at the right time.

[jacksonianmarch]

D.D. won three straight A.L. East titles by being aggressive. This year , for some reason , he stopped being aggressive.

 

Henry put the squeeze on the purse. Any further addition put the sox over the final threshold